Smurrf

Indeed...and it's the same reason pallies use the Ardent Defender talent, and just about any tank who can get it will use Kael's Commendation trinket from MgT - and likely would even without the stam bonus on it. It's a static, always present 'oh ****' button that you never have to press that's able to save your life. The drawback, of course, is that you'll never be able to nail down those points in time where it helps you out...but I challenge you to spend a while using Boar's Speed, then go back to any other current enchant and see which you like better. This isn't something you mathematically lay out as increasing overall DPS by 0.01% (or at least I can't), this is something that is a very simpler set of numbers - 1) lived with having it, 2) died without it.

 

Fafhrd

After our first night on Kil'jaeden, I'm pretty sure almost whole of SK Gaming had Boar's Speed enchanted.

 

legionaus

Firstly i apologise if this has been asked before. but are any sunwell locks thinking of going 40/0/21 or a variation of this to get Malediction when 2.4.3 comes out ?

 

Arelenda

Yes. One affliction lock in the raid will be optimal. It'll probably be 38/2/21.

 

Flamingcloud

As far as pure raid dps goes most raid makeups will not be better with an affliction lock. However you do gain more than just dps (imp buff for group, and 5% less damage from the boss)

 

Medieval

I would guess it would depend on the boss.

 

Flamingcloud

I'd recommend putting the affliction lock with a dps group still and not sticking it in the tank group. There is no way you need the tank hp more than the 400+ dps loss you would get no spriest/shaman.

 

Krazen

The HP can also benefit the mages and SP that you have in the group with all the raid damage going around.

10k buffed lets you survive a meteor if it comes to that.

 

Quintessa

Are there any guilds that run SM/Ruin locks on Brutallus now? I'd like to see some numbers now with the change. My guild runs a caster heavy raid (2-3 spriests, 3-4 warlocks, 2-3 mages on Brut), I'd like to see if it would be beneficial for us at all.

 

Sydane

Pretty easy to figure out if Malediction is worth it for your raid (disregarding the value of Shadow Embrace). Take the wws of your raid, add up all the shadow, arcane, frost, and fire damage and multiply by 0.027 (assuming you always had CoS and CoE, if you didn't have one or the other, multiply that part by 0.13). Determine the loss in personal damage from the switch (people estimate with the spreadsheet, but it could be more or less depending on play style and gear, it's best to just try it out and compare some wws reports). If A is higher than B, or really, anywhere near B, it's worth it. For a 400 dps loss you'd need roughly 14815 raid dps to compensate.

Ballparking, I'd estimate that if you have 7 or more people who benefit from CoE, it's worth having malediction. It's probably more like 6 people for most raids. Almost certainly going to be worth having in basically every raid given the option.

 

• frmorrison

Some raids with 2-3 SPriests may have some debuff slot issues, where an Affliction Lock would not have all 4-5 debuff slots he would need to to do fair dps.

Also account for changing from hitting Shadow bolt to five buttons, and the change may be more than 400 dps for some people.

Note, if you normally run 3 Warlocks, one gets to add another 150 dps using Doom.

 

Morrtir

For those seeking a quantification of Boar's Speed, simply divide your Shadow Bolt cast time by 0.074. This is the number of seconds you must spend running per fight to gain an additional Shadow Bolt due to having Boar's Speed. For a 2.5 second cast, it amounts to nearly 34 seconds. For a 2.2 second Shadow Bolt (around 13-14% haste), it is just under 30 seconds. Basically, the benefit from Boar's Speed obviously scales directly with haste. This assumes a fixed fight length. I don't really see any way to model it over a variable fight length. If you assume a 5-minute fight length, however, and assume your Shadow Bolts are 2.5 seconds (0 haste) and hit for 4000 on average and also assume you run for the 34 seconds required to gain 1 additional Shadow Bolt, Boar's Speed nets you an additional 13 1/3 DPS.

If you desire to see all of the math, I will post, but that is a semi-simplistic quantification of the benefits.

 

Benafflock

Has anyone noticed if the Infernal has been nerfed? It seems mine is only hitting for ~70.

 

rochan

Infernal is level 50 now, Doomguard is level 60. So they suck.

 

Latas

Any word on if the Infernal being 50 and the Doomguard being 60 was intended or just an oversight by blizz?

 

Arelenda

Meh, they had such limited use in the first place. And that gets nerfed?

 

Sydane

My guess/hope regarding the infernal is that it is a bug caused by the changes they did to small pets giving them levels, and that it will be fixed. Otherwise, they are just acknowledging that even though they've said for years they are going to do something to make them useful, it's actually never going to happen and they are entirely party tricks now.

As for Boar's Speed, it's impossible to quantify the value considering you can usually lifetap and sometimes dot while moving. It basically comes down to being the only thing at all useful to put on boots. If there was a 12 spell damage to Boots enchant, we'd all be using it. Would be nice to see a caster version of Surefooted in WotLK.

The spreadsheet has its own thread here with some good info in it:

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10065-a...s_spreadsheet/

Also here is another writeup that can help:

A Beginner’s Guide to Leulier’s Spreadsheet (v. 2.3) - The Warlocks Den Forums

I found that just playing around with it I could figure out most of the functionality after a little while. Personally, I just use it for relative comparisons, I never take its actual numbers as gospel, but it's a good way to compare specs and individual gear choices.

 

◊ Melbuframa

I only used mine on Brut. This explains why he did basicially nothing last night.

 

Torq

If they unify the ratings like has been seen in the Alpha, Surefooted will be viable for both melee and casters.

 

Sydane

That didn't occur to me at all, nice catch. So assuming there is a WotLK version that's the same scale as the current version, we'll get 0.8% Spell Hit on boots as an option compared to Boar's Speed. Maybe there should be a caster version of Boar's Speed that is Int. I know that for melee classes the movement increase is considered better dps than Surefooted but since we can do some things on the move, I don't know that it would be.

 

Arelenda

Not to mention we don't spend half the time running after our targets. Melee needs to move quite a lot more than we do.

 

Anthraxx

Has anyone tried some sort of Malediction/Ruin build with 4/5 T5 + 4/8 T6? Seems like another reason to include non-destro lock in the setup, for progress raids at least.

How much would be 4-piece T5 bonus worth in high end gear?

 

Arelenda

The set bonus doesn't actually do any useful things. It only works for your own corruption/immolate, and is 10% of base damage, and only for remaining tics.

example:
Corruption which has 900 base damage. 10% is 90.

SB hit before the first tic adds 90 on 6 tics. total: 540 damage * multipliers.
SB hit before the lact tic adds 90 on that one only. total: 90 damage * multipliers.

It's an okish set bonus, but worded poorly.

In high end raiding, only the affliction lock uses corruption. And Immolate's dot doesn't do much damage in the first place.


So in response: you'll lose dps to wearing inferior pieces.

 

Anthraxx

I was always under impression the effect stacked so it was ((X+10%)+10%)+10%...

 

Akj

The effect does stack but not in the way you/Arelenda listed.

Base dmg of corruption is 900 so 10% is 90 dmg or 15 per tick.

Assuming an sb cast before each tick this is how it works
Tick 1 - X+(15*1.1)
Tick 2 - Tick 1+(15*1.1*1.1)
Tick 3 - Tick 2+(15*1.1*1.1*1.1)
..

Net gain will be roughly 400 dmg per corruption or ~23 dps before multipliers which is totally not worth the downgrade to T5.