Methos

This might be a stupid question but after 3.0.2 i have specced the 0/46/15 build. Before i was Destro 0/21/40. Also sorry if the post isn't 100% correct english, seeing my native language aint english but dutch

Now i have a gemming/talent question. I was starting to gem +dmg/haste gems (reckless pyrestones) in new gear. Skipping gem bonusses mostly (when there was blue sockets involved) on all but 2 pieces for the chaotic meta gem to work.

My armory profile The World of Warcraft Armory

Now this week i aquired the malefic helm, shoulders and the transluecent spellthread necklace (neck for minbid). They don't show on armory due to it bugging last night so the gear i logged out in tuesday night is shown. I normally use hex shrunken head in the slot where the AD trinket is shown now and i have anetheron's noose also ready to be used since i got more hit now with the new gear. Sadly the rage OH never dropped for me

Now my gem question is should i continue to gem for yellow dmg/haste gems or would for example regem completely or partially with yellow crit/dmg (potent pyrestones) or red dmg (runed crimson spinels). I have excess badges to (re)gem all my gear.

Gear questions:

What to use Brooche of natures mercy or the transluecent spellthread neck
what to use Blasting belt or anetheron's noose (guess this relates with above seeing i reckon i need either the hit from spellthread neck or from the blasting belt.


I also reckon it would be smart for me to move the 2 points from demonic empathy to fel syngergy since demonic is only working on cleave a.t.m. and due to the fact i lost my 2p T5 bonus because of the new gear. Or are there better options?

Thanks in advance for answers

 

dcpwns

I play 2/3/56. Atm I like having more buttons to press and to time things with coflag. The only question I have really is if under the effect of heroism do I still keep my rotation the same with immolate and dots. What I usually do is under heroism when I coflag, I just spam incinx3 then immo incin till CB is up. Also do I still keep corruption up during heroism? I usually drop it and just keep CoA up.

 

Trickykid

Normally this question would be directed to a spreadsheet, but this is currently being reworked for the new changes. However, you could use the old one and at least make some base conclusions about new gear.

You were destro before which took pretty full use of crit and haste (fewest DoTs used and didn't cast spells which could go below GCD). Now you're casting more DoTs (which both don't crit and "use" less haste than a nuke), and also have a demon doing anywhere from 1/4-1/3 of your damage. The demon doesn't get your haste and only a small portion of your crit.

To sum that up, crit and haste are likely worth less to you now than before the patch. Given how close Reckless and Runed were before, it seems pretty clear that Runed will be your best bet. But I'd play around with the spreadsheet (the old one even -- it's still pretty good for demonology) for more info.

 

Arelenda

Can any destro warlock confirm that Chaos Bolt can be used to kill off the Arcane Anomalies in Karazhan? They're the Curator trash mobs that use Mana Shied. The anomalies only use the shield after the first hit, so you could damage them with the initial assault, but they remained at 1% if it would have been lethal. Chaos Bolt ought to be able to kill these, but I'd need to go out and test it to be sure. I'm not raiding at the moment, so I can't do this myself.

In addition, can anyone tell me what the spellpower coefficient is on Chaos Bolt? If it follows normal rules it ought to be 2/3.5 + 0.2 (about 0.77).

And lastly, I migrated off Azsune (EU) when the raid guild I was in disbanded. I forgot to migrate my bank alt, and he still has stuff on him, as well as some gold. The first person to PM me from that server will receive it, as I can no longer use it and everyone I knew there has migrated too. (UPDATE: offer taken, so no longer valid)

 

leino

I'm really puzzled with what to do now, I've been reading back and forwards over these forums and have seen several builds pass, and I've tried most of them by now, but really can't decide on one. The ones which come out on top on dummies are basically felguard/ruin and the so called imp-shotgun+firedestro spec. Although the second one is sometimes easier to screw up if you have to move etc. Affliction is way to complex, it's cool to do it on dummies, but let's be honest, dummies really aren't a way to decently measure your damage since there is nothing which can interrupt your rotation.

So basically my question to some of the more experienced locks here is: which build do you find working the best ?(damage output wise)

My thanks in advance,
thomas

 

Tauraherion

You answered your own post.

Right now there is no Best spec, since everyone is testing and playing with the talents to see where they can get.

The supposed "best" Spec is affliction, for it´s high damage output. Though it depends on how well you play your lock. You've already ruled that out, since not many people is confortable with watching 6-7 spell timers while getting out of the fire.

The imp-machine-gun destro and the felguard-ruin seems to be the best damage per effort ratio. But to decide, you´ll have to use those specs in a raid environment and see how they work for yourself.

 

Kalle

Chaos Bolt, Rank 2 damage with emberstorm (859 to 1091 tooltip damage range):
I determined the range for which
min >= tooltip_min + coeff * spellpower AND max <= tooltip_max + coeff * spellpower
is true and got 0.940 < coeff < 0.945 (including emberstorm).

I had the suspicion that Shadow&Flame was changed, so I decided to test incinerate and shadow bolt, too. I got 0.991 < coeff < 0.995 for incinerate (with 4pc t6 and emberstorm) and 1.089 < coeff < 1.091 for SB (again with 4pc t6).

So it actually looks like S&F is multiplicative now:
CB: (2.5/3.5) * 1.2 * 1.1 = 0.943
Incin: (2.5/3.5) * 1.2 * 1.16 = 0.994
SB: (3.0/3.5) * 1.2 * 1.06 = 1.090

In addition
(2.5/3.5) * 1.2 * 1.1 * 1.06 = 0.999
(2.5/3.5) * 1.26 * 1.1 = 0.990
(2.5/3.5) * 1.36 = 0.971
are not possible for incinerate.

The new formula is worse for spells with castingtime < 3.5s but better for spells with longer casttime (if they would exist).
I think affliction may use a similar formula for empowered corruption and everlasting affliction. I noticed a slight difference between the formula I came up with during the PTR testing and the actual damage done, but didn't think of these talents being multiplicative at that time.

 

Zasz

It seems that the latest patch changed the cooldown of [Ashtongue Talisman of Shadows]. It used to proc sometimes several times per minute, now very much less. Can someone confirm this?

 

• Snowstorm

I can confirm that I've one-shotted the Arcane Anomalies in Kara with CB.

 

Arelenda

This is interesting stuff. Are you sure you didn't forget any coefficients, such as the crit meta, zone +5% damage buff, defensive stances or anything else that could have skewed your data? Can you elaborate on how you got these numbers?

 

Kalle

Yes, I am pretty sure. I was shooting at lvl70 training dummies in orgrimmar and I did pay attention to debuffs on the dummy. I had nothing equipped/skilled that could cause procs on the spells that I used. And I made sure that no buffs expired during the test. After 20 non-crit bolts, I copied my data from recount's spell details (for non-crits). Recount did catch the right amount of damage, that is the one damage actually done plus overkill. The combatlog didn't show any partial resists.

For the incinerate test, I wasn't using immolate, so no chance of some incinerates getting the benefit and others not.

 

krilz

OK, I've read this thread extensively since the patch was released and haven't found any interesting destro spec + rotation which is my point of interest now (since playing affliction is pretty straight-forward). My origin is this post:
So, the spec I'm currently using is 2/3/56 with the following thoughts:
- Imp. COA is a huge dps bonus for 2 pts and the 3 in imp. imp is pretty solid as well.
- COA is the only shadow dot you will be using for Molten Core procs. I've tried out a bit with Corr as well but it doesn't seem to improve the procs and since the procs are based on every tick, you might as well be better off with only COA since it has shorter ticks.
- As for destro, most of your main spells are Chaos Bolt, Incinerate, Immolate and Conflagrate so I went with my gut feeling and only improved those.
- You can see that I've taken both Backdraft/Backlash AND the Soul Leech chain. This is mostly because I find it hard to use any other talents to better use. With a shadow priest and a retadin in the raid, I hardly ever have mana issues. Backdraft is what makes this build imo.

As for rotations with this, it sucks (just like above post) so do this: always keep chaos bolt on cooldown, always keep immolate and COA up and use incinerate as fillers, but only when immolate is already up. Use conflagrate whenever you see immolate is at 3 seconds or so to make good use of Fire and Brimstone. So typically your starting rotation would be like: Chaos Bolt, Immolate, COA, Incinerate x3, CB, Conflagrate, Immolate, Incinerate etc (gets kinda messy fast). COA might be better to put up before Immolate to proc a fast Molten Core but I highly doubt it will that fast.

I haven't got the opportunity to test this in a raidsetting just yet but I've easily gotten up to 1800 dps in 5-mans which makes me believe this has high potential. Stacking crit and haste seems to be where it's at to achieve som really high numbers and fast casts. Don't be surprised to encounter 1 second incinerate casts. Btw, I use Glyph of Imp as well.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, but I'm testing as well to see if Soul Fires are worth putting out as soon as Backdraft is up. 2.7 Soul Fire casts are pretty hot, but Incinerate might be just as good and doesn't burn through your shards as often.

 

seperated

Ok, so i've been reading here for the past few weeks trying to find out where i want to be for the new patch. Well the day came from being 0/21/40 to wanting to spec to 2/3/56

I've got 3/8 t6, badge gear equivalent and so forth. Wow Armory

My problem is, the same as everyone else, Horrid dps, as to what i would have been having prior to 3.0

For brutallus this is our WWS reports WWS

Seperated 2/3/56
Tahkodan 0/40/21
Mordor 0/40/21

This was our guilds first attempt / downing of brutallus. So none of us really knew what we were doing for the first few tries.

my rotation is (to start the fight) CoA-Corr-CB-Imm-Inc x3. Then move on to, CB-Imm-CoA (if need be)-Inc till about 3 sec. left on imm - Conflag

I've heard people say how much better they had their dps (up to 3200 from one person)

Is this just the way the cookie crumbles now or am I just doing something completely wrong?

 

krilz

It says on the WWS that you played 0/21/40 is it just a bug? Nevertheless, me thinks that you're focusing a bit on wrong spells. Most casts seems to be Incinerate (which it will) but concentrate on getting those CB's off a lot more. As I wrote a few posts up, always keep CB on cooldown and try to Conflagrate whenever you see Immolate on 3 sec or so (this is debateable as I haven't fully tested if it really increases your dps). Drop Corr out of your rotation. I hate commenting with text, the best thing I can say is see what I posted just a bit above and maybe you'll learn something from my experiences.

 

Aaryndon

I have to ask why on earth you have anybody on Brutallus doing 1000 DPS. That's just not gonna cut it in Sunwell, especially now.

Either they are doing something wrong, or (and I suspect this is more likely) the 0/40/21 build doesn't cut it.

Tahkodan for example does... 3000 total damage from Curse of Agony. Either he's really bad at keeping dots up, or you were making him run a utility curse for much of the fight, in which case he was probably wrong to switch to agony for whatever reason.

If you are ARE running utility curses, that's your first problem. Putting warlocks on utility curses now is just a horrible idea when other classes can cover the same functions with less of a DPS hit. Curse of Agony is a great way to power Molten Core for destro, and a huge DPS contributor for Affliction if you talent it.

In our raid, the warlocks place competitively though typically not in the top 3 (there exceptions, for example I can often hit the top 2 if I nail my rotation). I run affliction 56/0/5, and the other 2 locks run x/x/56 destro builds.

I'm sure further srcutiny would reveal other issues in the locks' specs or rotations, but the bottom line is that for the tie being almost any spec can do the job if you are better about babysitting your dot uptime and cooldowns. In OUR raid my affliction DPS is higher than the other locks, but I also outgear them a bit.

As for 0/40/21, it doesn't seem to be working, and I can't imagine why anyone would expect any different. All our talent trees are extremely top-heavy. Get up in the higher talents and grab the big power boosters. And if you're going demo, shouldn't you be running a felguard? With any typical raid make-up, you're looking at significant melee DPS buffs, all of which he can benefit from, in ADDITION to benefiting from all the spell buffs you are receiving. Seems a no-brainer to me.

You guys just need to get away from "the old ways", and you can pull more expected numbers on Brutallus.

 

krilz

I have to ask here: as an affliction warlock, are you using CoE or not? Personally I suggested to our affliction warlock (seeing as I'm the CL in our guild) to spec Malediction since it not only gives increased damage to herself, but to the rest of the raid as well, but imp. CoA might as well be much better.

Curse of Recklessness is out of the question anyway seeing as we always have a feral druid with us.

 

Aaryndon

I have Malediction in the spec, purely because there was no greater DPS increase available.

Let me preface this by saying that I lead my guild and its raids. None of the locks in my raid run utility debuffs. We had a resto druid switch to boomkin at the patch (He had been prepping his gear for a while), and he runs Earth and Moon.

I would probably take the hit and run CoE if we didn't have a moonkin but there's really no reason not to have one now. Any raid leader who thinks otherwise needs to shift to a more modern way of thinking, and I'm saying that AS a raid leader who spends probably more time than a sane person should thinking about such things.

Any of you locks suffering under an oppressive regime, feel free to have your raid leader hit me up on Azgalor, or on our guild forums (voa-guild.com). I'd be happy to discuss my thoughts on post 3.0 warlocks, as our raid is living proof that they can still be competitors on the DPS chart if you use them properly (and if they use their new tools properly, of course)\

Edit: For reference, my armory is horribly out of date since the patch. I have basically best in slot onseveral more pieces now, as we've downed Kil'jaedan since the patch.

 

sneh_122

Any affliction locks out there having issue with their felhunter dps-ing at Brutallas? Have realised my felhunter does not dps at all despite manual clicking petattack, aggressive, shadow bite etc. I have noticed that imps turned out fine except felhunter.

Additionally, what is the actual spell hit needed without count the Talents(Suppression & Catacylsm)?

 

Fulgurite

1% more than it's always been, 214. 17% from gear, talents, and debuffs (moonkin/spriest).

Also, try standing on the other side of the room for Brut.

 

sneh_122

Thank you for your reply. However, about the positioning myself at Brut. I dont think i can proceed to antoher side when we're supposed to intake meteor slashes, or rather, my guild had it positioned there instead. I can't get them to move another side because of my bug. But, thanks alot for your advice. I have emailed blizz and informed them about the issue i had.

It's a great deal of dps loss without felhunter and I ended up getting my imp instead. Compared it with previous attempts, my imp indeed increased my dps loss with my felhunter out doing nothing at all. I wonder does any affliction locks have this problem too?

On the other hand, about spellhit info, thanks once again. Which means, with misery(3%) and warlock's suppression and cataclysm without having boomkin's buff, the total requirement of spell hit for us will still be 202? Correct me if i'm wrong pls.

From warlock supression of full talents 3/3, it gives 3% from affliction spells and cataclysm(3%) for destruction spells, will still count as a total 3% on accounted Spells in affliction and destruction, additional with Spriest's Misery that is 3%, that would take 6% to sacrifice our spell hit for, would be 12.8spell hit in total.

214 being the new spell hit requirement as you've mentioned, with spriest's and lock's talents (3/3 Supression, 3/3 Cataclysm), would still ended up with 202?

Please correct me if im wrong. Thanks alot.

 

Aaryndon

Sneh,

regarding your felhunter there was a post just a few above this one you might have enjoyed reading...

Basically a lot of pets (hunters too) glitch out on brutallus, it may have something to do with dropping into the room. Try summoning the pet after you are in there, that fixed it for the previous poster.

 

krilz

Try to think of it more as percentage. You'll want 17% (as opposed to 16% before the patch) which results in 214 hit. Now, if you have 3/3 Cataclysm and Suppression as well as Misery, this means you get a total of 6% extra hit from talents (Misery adds hit to both trees while Cataclysm and Suppression add to separate trees), meaning you need 11% from gear, which rougly translates to 139 spell hit.

 

Issa

Unfortunatly I have exactly the same problem and summoning the puppy inside the room didn't fix it. What worked for me was sending the pet in exactly at the pull, 1 sec later and it won't move. Open for other suggestions how to fix this.

 

sneh_122

Wow! Thank you very very much! I understand that now!

and, yes to Issa and Aaryndon, who have answered my qns. I tried summoning felhunter after getting down to Brut too, it just wouldn't work. It is only felhunter that doesn't work. I do think that it is the area that I am at is bugged. When we attempted Felmyst, my felhunter is working good again.

I submitted a ticket and they said they will investigate into it. And hey Issa, you're not the only one. hehe. I had to summon my imp instead but at least it's a better dps increase than nothing. .

 

Aaryndon

Then try pre-positioning your pet somewhere unbugged before the pull rather than letting him go stand next to you in your spot. Our hunters often do this.