Troffel

dcpwns, from theorycraftig point of view:

Assumption: 1500 spelldamage from Items, 50% Haste, Immolate does not crit (for easy calculation)
So the spellcast of Immolate lasts 1 sec (gcd is lowered from haste to 1 sec (technical cap))

Lets calculate the dpct (Damage per cast time) for Immolate (as the weakest dot for affliction):
Damage of Immolate per cast:
(331 + 0,192 * 1500) * 1,03 + (615 + 0,962 * 1500) * 1,03 * 1,1 * 1,2 = 3327 dam
Since cast time is 1 sec: dpct(Immolate) = 3327 dam / 1 sec = 3327 dam/sec.

For Shadow Bolt with 50% crit (very high) you get:
You get (on the average)
(572 + 6/7*1500) * 1,03 * 1,15 * (1+10%*(1-50%)^4)*(1+50%) = 3321 dam
Maximum possible dpct(shadow bolt): 3321 dam / 1 sec

Even if you get gcd capped during casting Shadow Bolt, you dpct is lower than casting the gcd capped Immolate spell.
(By the way, you need 2,5/1 *100% = 250% haste to reach this cap. Technically with much higher haste, Drain Soul and Drain Life will be superior, but this haste levels are ridiculous.)

Conclusion: Even if Shadow bolt is gcd capped, the same rotation remains valid. If you can maintain the rotation.

But one thing you have to consider: If the target is below 25% and you can use the quadrupled Drain Soul, you should cast the last Drain Soul before the bloodlust ends, because the haste of Drain Soul works even, if bloodlust stops during the channeling.

PS: Can someone verify the math?

 

Darian_TruBlade

The question was partially covered in the WotLK thread: http://elitistjerks.com/951633-post4035.html

Basically at T7 level and below it's probably better to Soul Fire than Incinerate/Chaos Bolt during Backdraft + Bloodlust/Heroism, but only due to human error. As better gear is obtained Soul Fire will begin to lag behind. The difference isn't that large, so if you're concerned about reagent costs you can simply skip it.

"A man's IQ, yearly income, sexual prowess, ingenuity, physical appearance and generally every other aspect of his character can be condensed down to four digits: his Arena rating." - Zechsy [70 Rogue - Skullcrusher (EU) - 10/23/2007]

 

Batuk

Is corruption worth using since the coefficiency change? I assume with a glyph proc it's still not worth it using shadowbolt?

Also I've been skipping backdraft/conflag since conflag didn't benefit from ruin, has that changed/anyone done math that says conflag is worth using?

 

valeea

Did anyone come to test if the Shadow Embrace debuff on the mobs is now applyable by more than one warlock if the one debuff will have every wl benefit from it or if it is still only working for one warlock? If the latter is true, what do you think about it? I would then highly doubt that this is still a bug but rather working was intended (although that would be incredibly awkward).

 

lonedawg

According to the 3.0.3 patch notes, this has been fixed.

"* Shadow Embrace: Now works on ranks 1-4 and stacks properly with multiple applications."

 

valeea

Ah well i totally missed that line in my patchnotes, thank you.

However, 2 questions remain.

1) Are there multiple ranks of Shadow Embrace (Trainable?)? I did not yet notice that, too. Where are the ranks supposed to come from, because Shadow Embrace is neither an active (castable) talent like haunt, nor a trained skill? This rank 1-4 confuses me a bit.

2) What does "stack properly" mean? Can we understand it in the sense we are used to when it comes to "stacking", like the mages scorch, which stacks five times? Or does this simply mean there can be a second SE next to another one?

edit: typos

 

Mindaika

The "multiple ranks" are from points put into the talent. I.e. 1pt is rank 1.


They just mean that the bug only allowing one lock to use/benefit from it has been fixed, so basically that there can be a second SE next to the first.

 

Hwi

So with the new 3.0.3 patch deployed today and the changes to Emberstorm (increase fire damage by 15% instead of the old 10%) and the lost raidviability in the 3.0.2 patch (ISB being only for yourself), is shadowbolt spam dead? I am still using the old 0/21/40 spec with SB spamming and CoE, and i really like it. I am not a big fan of fire as a warlock and i like big crits (Ruin <3), so is there any SB spamming builds that can compare to fire now?

 

nikitabanana

Update with the changes to conflag/emberstorm last night: Brutallus last night: 3430dps, 50% crit rate (so nothing abnormal).

Spec is 2/3/56 (The World of Warcraft Armory). Changed out my KJ gloves for my crafted ones for a bit more dmg/crit since I was clipping with my haste level. So yeah, fairly good dps gain from previous weeks (over 200dps).

I use Chaos Bolt, CoA, Immolate, Incinerate til 4ish s left on immolate, conflag, 3x incinerates (or if cb is up use another cb), then immolate, coa if neeed, etc.

 

Shodan30

Last night i got the Ashtongue talisman of Shadows. Right now i have a Timbrals, an icon, and the talisman and im trying to decide whats better for me. In single boss fights the talisman only has its base 20% chance to proc per tick of corruption....so im thinking it might not be the better choice over the icon for these fights. On trash where im putting UA/corr on everything however it seems to supply a fairly constant stream of damage. I checked over on maxdps and they put the icon slightly over the talisman and way over timbrals, I guess they just dont take lots of factors into account, but i would like some opinions.

Which trinkets are most of you using at 70 right now?

 

Sydane

If you have corruption on two or more targets the Ashtongue trinket is mathematically the best trinket in the game. If you have corruption on only one target, it is mediocre and you're better off using the Icon, especially since you can control the usage to match up with heroism.

A couple of the warlocks in my guild have had success with variants of the old sm/ruin builds, they amount to 60% SB spam and a few dots (40/0/21 or similar). On paper they aren't very good but since fights are short, they make better use of heroism and burst dps than the deep affliction builds do. Demo builds like 0/46/15 are also primarily shadowbolt spam, send in your felguard, keep curse/immolate/corruption up and spam SB. Destro builds should all be fire though, there's no shadow synergy beyond tier one.

Empathy does not imply approval.

 

• Emolate

The ones the Spreadsheet tells us are the best.

The Ashtongue trinket is 36DPS less than Timbral's Focusing Crystal for me.

I use Darkmoon Card: Crusade and Timbal's as Affliction.

Look at the spreadsheet and see for yourself?

 

Shodan30

I've tried using the spreadsheet many times but i end up with tons of errors in the fields. My access to an office program is limited to a crappy one that i cant link to armory etc.

And i mostly wanted opinions.

 

Ralask

What glyphs are you using right now besides the imp one. I cant find anything else that is available that looks decent. Are you using any comsumables such as flask or food and are you using haste pot during heroism.

 

Zaleiria

Last night (3.0.3 obviously) we weren't able to apply two separate SEs at all.

Edit: Also, it's my impression you can only benefit from your own SE, so that's kind of a bad deal for extra aff warlocks.

 

Voidbringer

Shadow Embrace should have been changed to a self-buff that grants the reduced HOT effect to targets afflicted with your Corruption at the same time Shadow Weaving became a self-buff for SPs. The last thing affliction needs is to occupy an extra debuff slot that does nothing for anyone else in the raid.

 

Ossifrage

Maybe I'm missing something, but even at your gear level the spreadsheet seems to say that DPCT for corruption is higher than incinerate. Doesn't that mean that you should work it into your rotation? Incinerate doesn't look like it would beat out corruption unless you were getting 70% crit? Glyph of Corruption would also be worth having for the random instant SBs.

Second question, while I appreciate the casting time bonus that you would get from Backdraft and I notice that you can't further reduce the cast time of your immolate, wouldn't it be better to recast immolate immediately after conflag considering that it is almost double the DPCT of incinerate?

Sorry if this has already been discussed.

 

nikitabanana

DPS/CT doesn't include lifetaps necessary, as a first thing. Secondly - does it include emberstorm being 15%? On paper, you may see it say corruption is slightly better then incinerate - but in real world practice and simulations, it's definitely not. I'm fairly certain, from all simulations I've run, that even including the extra 20% molten core uptime you get - it's less dcs/ct then incinerate. I can look up some graphs and reference them later when I'm at home.

I'm not sure the spreadsheet you're referencing - but in my experience spreadsheets tend to be pretty off. I've done a number of simulations (and real world tests) and corruption, untalented, without shadow talents, etc. is a pretty weak dps spell and costs more mana (terrible dpm) then any other spell casting as a fire lock (other then conflag?), muddles the priority queue (you have to worry about that + shadowbolt, neither of which really *gain* dps, they are just further places to dps from). Basically what I'm saying is - it's at pretty much a brea keven dps situation that turns into a dps loss due to the need to lifetap more and waste a gcd on a spell with weak dpm.

Immolate is *technically* slightly more dps/ct then immolate - unless you are 1) clipping immolate which you will and 2) have an aff warlock casting immolate. Basically, if immolate is up via another warlock, the incinerate backdrafted will have a higher dps/ct due to the reduction in cast time that immolate wouldn't receive. I doubt a spreadsheet includes that - but maybe I'm wrong. Regardless, It should make sense (hopefully it becomes a moot point if they remove immolate from backdraft charges). Once again, I can support this empirically as well as through real world tests. Every warlock I've explained this to has seen their dps go up when they dropped corruption.



Only imp imp. I used flask, food, and I used a destro pot during heroism because of spell clipping issues. I'd use a haste pot if I had less haste.

 

Cepha

But what if I am the only lock casting immolate? Is it still worth casting 3 Incinerate or better to loose the first Backdraft load for immolate?
And how much is the difference?

 

Ossifrage

I see what you mean but Leulier's Spreadsheet does a pretty good job with it if you look at your dps increase/decrease.

I realize that corruption's DPM is low at first glance but taking into account the increased MC uptime (which you mentioned) and the GoC proc (which will gradually lose its advantage as haste rating increases) the DPM should be higher. I guess the question is whether or not the dps is enough to justify the added complication. Gear seems like it will also play a major factor.


The spreadsheet takes into account clipping of immolate. I think that also includes the capped CT of immolate but im not 100%. Take a look at the spreadsheet and let me know what you think. I'm going to drop corruption for tonights raid and see how it goes.

 

Anthraxx

Thanks for the input, this rotation looks promising.

I have a question though: I tried to adapt a new rotation myself and I found out that 1st/2nd round is going rather well but it all turns into Guitar Hero style button mashing after 30 seconds.

Are you sticking with CB, CoA, Immo, incins, conflag, 3 incis (CB if possible) and then repeat? This seem very dependant on personal haste amounts... Do you refresh dots ASAP or try to have a consistent rotation?

Also how often do you life tap?

 

Simonus

Maybe you can help me..

Is there a macro that casts Chaosbolt whenever it's up and when it's not it casts Incinerate?
I was trying to get such a macro running but without success..

 

Zephro

Are there any plans to modify the first post at some point (perhaps when Wrath goes live?) It's completely out of date now. If not, might it be worth deleting all the old posts that refer to pre-3.0, so that rerolls aren't confused and don't have to start at the last post and hunt backwards to find the point at which the posts begin to refer to 3.0+?

 

nikitabanana

I worry very little about consistency and more about making the right choice priority wise. People tend to try to stick to rotations, and in reality - rotations nearly always fail due to the introduction of outside variables like movement, latency, whatever. The best way isto say, what are my priorities cast wise and go via that.

 

Troffel

For destruction I think even a priority system does not work.

It strongly depends on the haste you currently have. Since the haste is not constant, you have to change your priorities inside the fight as well.
Backdraft and Bloodlust for example together makes incinerate gcd capped and you want to switch to soul fire. The same happens to normal casts of chaos bolt, if you have enough haste.

To gain maximum dps with destruction you need very focused play and fast reaction.