Krazen

Rotating an elemental shaman into a melee group (in place of an enhancement shaman) for heroism means both shamans have to recast weaker totems for their respective groups, or both the melee and caster groups go without their totems for the duration of the heroism.

It might be better on certain fights, though.

 

galzohar

Does the shaman really need to stay in the group for the duration or can he be swapped right away? Should test that sometime but I don't think I'll have a chance to anytime soon. Anyway unless the effect is very similar on the melee and casters in terms of overall dps gained, the 40s of lesser totem would be negligible, although if after doing the math you get a close call regarding who should get it then definitely take into account the weaker totems (assuming you actually have to keep the shaman in that group after casting heroism, otherwise your point is moot as you just swap him for a fraction of a seconds (well, more like latencyX2+reaction timeX2+mouse movement timeX2)).

 

PSGarak

Bloodlust is a buff, not an aura, so it should be resilient to group-swapping. In general, things with a duration are tied to the character. The only ones I know of that aren't, are tied to location (consecrate, flamestrike), not to auras. So I'm going to go with yes, you can group swap, unless they've added very special code saying otherwise. Although I would suggest that if lots of people start taking advantage of this they *will* special-code it. In the process though it very well could end up being a tradiational aura-type buff, making it undispellable except off the shaman.

Mana tide on the other hand is a totem, meaning it is an aura tied to a player's "guardian" and therefore dynamically tied to group membership. However, the buff refreshes on normal combat ticks so you should be able to squeeze an extra second or two out of a group shift. I wonder if spam-swapping could give two groups mana tide...

Personally I think in-combat group swaps are mildly exploitative, in that they're not disallowed but the lack of support makes them seem discouraged, but if you're more lax with respect to those sorts of things, by all means try it.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

UnholY_Prince

Correct, you swap a Shaman to a group, immediately Bloodlust, and immediately switch him back to have the said party retain the Bloodlust.

 

Arelenda

I disagree on that point, but I'd rather not debate it here. It is of no consequence.

Point taken. I was wrong in my original assumption.

Can you enlighten about the mechanic? I was under the impression that fire crits left an ignite dot that ticked twice in 4 seconds. What happens if you land another crit during this time? I also thought each mage has their own ignite dots, is that correct?

Seems like a solid point. I've heard about dps warriors getting great performance with heroism/bloodlust boosted execute spam, they might benefit greatly too. This is just a hunch about a rumor, though. Then again, it's pretty hard to get solid numbers on this.

 

Arelenda

Put the 21 points into demonology into affliction instead.

You lose:
15% stamina and some max health
30 spell power
15% shadow damage

You gain:
An imp for blood pact
10% shadow damage through SM
2.7% shadow damage (which combines into 13%) through Malediction, which you are now providing for the entire raid
Siphon Life, Dark Pact
3/3 Emp Corruption
Equal range on all spells
5% damage reduction through Shadow Embrace

In other words, it's at best equal dps output with less perks then the raid support build.

Spamming Corruption with Nightfall is a pvp thing, really. In PVE Nightfall is not a talent you want to devote a spec to. Just let it rest.

 

bobobo

The point is for a succubus sac, no?

 

Arnath

As 0/21/40, is it better to pop Super Mana Potions or Destruction Potions? I feel like the mana pot has the edge here because you're gaining a little more than one Lifetap in mana and time, which gains you a really solid amount of damage (more than I feel like the 4 Shadowbolts you'd get out of the Destruction pot would be). However, I can't really do math well enough to work this out myself.

EDIT: Ugh, never mind, found the post I was looking for.

 

Twopint

I haven't seen much discussion on T6 locks that are stuck with the imp. Have so far done several WWS parses of all the MH/BT fights as 0/40/21, 21/0/40 and 40/0/21, and those are written in the order of DPS experienced. Am I missing any other vital spec to try out, or is this what others have experienced as well?

 

• frmorrison

I am not sure of the order of yours, but a T6 with imp I found 40/0/21 is best with 21/0/40 about 50 dps less (due to no maledication CoS) along with providing less raid support.

The Demo variant isn't worth trying for me, since the reduction in aggro from imp isn't useful since I only need to soulshatter on Bloodboil.

 

• Shinanigans

I was looking through the main post and cannot seem to find the solid numbers for how much +spell hit (%) you need to be capped for SSC/TK/MH/BT bosses.

Anyone have a number on this? Seeing alot of people not going any higher than about 120 hit rating nowadays.

 

Furio

I don't know who you're looking at that only has 120 hit rating. 202 hit rating is the cap (16%). If you reliably have an Elemental Shaman for Totem of Wrath, then you'd only need 164 hit rating (if the Shaman is Draeni then only 152 is needed).

 

semi

202 for maxed hit, but you can then go lower if you have a draenei caster in your group, even lower if its an ele shaman. Helps to stack a lot of hit on a single item so that you can swap it when you dont need it.

 

dotcow

Question about the 21/40 spec and spell haste. I've read the OP and understand the basic fundamentals of this spec, I've played it for a while. But with ZA and the new heroic badge gear I've stumbled upon a vast amount of spell haste gear. Is it wise of me to lose spell crit and some spell damage to stack on spell haste?

My current gear is something like:

1160 shadow damage
15-16% crit without the 5% from devastation
205 spell hit
and I believe 155 spell haste

Without the haste I could get my shadow damage up about 100 pts and my crit up 4-5% while keeping capped hit.


Any help would be appreciated... thanks.

 

• frmorrison

Many people (including me), log out in PvP or "normal" gear, which you don't need 202 hit rating. For PvP you need 3% (38 hit rating) and normal gear having at least 6% (for level 72s), or 77 hit rating, however the best gear has lots of hit rating, such as my normal gear has like 140 hit rating.

 

galzohar

Lieuler's spreadsheet should ansewr your questions regarding specific gear choice question.

 

semi

Haste is overvalued. Any time you're not casting a shadowbolt is devalueing your haste. Lifetapping, moving, being unsure on threat (illidan p2), etc all add up.

Just guessing at your numbers, you'll probably be doing better dps overall without the haste. You'll certainly be putting ISB up a lot more and helping your raid out.

That being said, haste is fun. Factor that in based on how badly your guild needs you to be doing optimal dps vs how much room you have to do things for no other reason than personal enjoyment.

 

clavarnway

Isn't this true for crit? When you're not moving crit rating does not help you at all, while +damage still affects Life Tap/Dark Pact, so you're saying we shouldn't focus on crit ever?

On a movement fight haste might actually be better than crit, because with X haste you might be able to fit Y+1 <damage spell> into <time frame> where as without the haste you could only fit Y <damage spell>. Or maybe you get enough time to fit 1 <damage spell> before being forced to move whereas without haste, can't risk it.

http://sigs.guildlaunch.net/sig.php/1424974uXyta.png

 

galzohar

More haste means you lifetap more often, which gives haste very slight diminishing returns. This had been discussed already, however it is very slight diminishing returns. And again using a simple spreadsheet will tell you exactly how much it's worth for you, at least more accurately than you could figure out with speculations.

 

semi

True, but every spreedsheet I've seen has valued dmg higher than crit, so maybe thats part of it.

I guess the real problem with haste is just its ilvl budget means you sacrifice a lot just to get something that is barely noticable and something that hurts your mana. If lifetap was off the GCD haste would be pretty good.

 

PSGarak

Haste increases your dps without increasing your dpm. For a warlock caster model, with lifetap or darkpact, the fact that your lifetaps aren't hasted decreases the overall benefit you get. Crit increases your dps and dps, and does not change your absolute rate of mana consumption, so you can take your cast order as a given and simply look at the percent increase. And yes, damage is better than crit as well, so haste being worse than both crit and damage is completly logical.
It's nothing about haste itself, or item budget or anything, it's just the warlock regen model. That's not to say you should avoid haste like the plague: evaluate every piece of gear you get individually, but be aware that haste rating is point-for-point not a good stat.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

galzohar

While yeah, you use more lifetaps, remember that 15.7 haste is needed for 1% haste, while 22.1 crit rating is needed for 1% crit. It's a very big difference.

 

Gumibear

The spreadsheets still show haste as better per point than crit when I plugged my stats in for destruction and demonology.

 

• Suggestive

You also have to consider the fact that on a vast majority of encounters, you can perform a lot of your lifetap's on the go so to speak, and in that situation haste's effect on lifetap is minimized. That said, just evaluate it on a piece by piece basis. Some haste piece's obviously aren't worth it (like the shoulders), and some are very good.

 

Vazu

Ok, I have an issue with two items and Spell Haste specifically that I need help with. I picked up a Loop of Cursed Bones off Zul'jin tonight, and I can't quite tell if it's better than Ritssyn's overall for my spec. I'm asking the end-game Warlock community what they think.

I am 6/44/11 and generally raid with around 1700+ shadow, capped +hit, ~27% crit fully buffed with consumables.

Loop of Cursed Bones
+19 Stamina
+20 Intellect (.25% Spell Crit @ L70)
Equip: Improves spell haste rating by 27 (1.71% @ L70).
Equip: Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 32.

vs.

Ritssyn's Lost Pendant
+24 Stamina
Equip: Increases damage done by Shadow spells and effects by up to 51.

Is the spell crit, haste and 32 spellpower added to Immolate (Ritssyn's does nothing for) worthwhile? I pulled a random Teron Gorefiend log where I didn't get marked and was CoD'ing as a decent point of reference in terms of damage breakdown. Here is a breakdown of the major contributers:

Shadowbolt: 46%
Felguard: 17% (This includes Cleave)
Corruption: 10%
Curse of Doom: 9%
Immolate: 9%

Ritssyn's or LOCB? Thoughts on Spell Haste in general?