PVE Raiding Compendium - Page 45

witchedwiz · 01/22/08, 10:18 PM

a little question..
at the moment as destro shadow i'm sitting at 1340ish (incl flask+wizard oil.. excluded shammy ofc i never get one :P), 29,60% crit (incl deva), 202 spell hit...
i'm still using spellstrike hood..
currently i get to choose between t5 helm, hood of hexing and cowl of high engineer... granted that i don't have the time to raid za after lunch, what should i go after (unless i'm lucky and get in a late night ZA), cowl of the high engineer or t5 helm?

• moghed · 01/22/08, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Ammanas

You need to know which encounters its safe to be in the 100-129% range and which encounters its not. General rule of thumb: if the boss never de-aggroes, for lack of a better word, the tank (IE: Rage/Teron) you are fine to be above him, you will never pull aggro (as long as you are under 130).

Is this true? I was under the impression that on Teron, the only player that couldn't be targeted for shadow of death was the person at the top of the agro list.

Originally Posted by witchedwiz

a little question..
at the moment as destro shadow i'm sitting at 1340ish (incl flask+wizard oil.. excluded shammy ofc i never get one :P), 29,60% crit (incl deva), 202 spell hit...
i'm still using spellstrike hood..
currently i get to choose between t5 helm, hood of hexing and cowl of high engineer... granted that i don't have the time to raid za after lunch, what should i go after (unless i'm lucky and get in a late night ZA), cowl of the high engineer or t5 helm?

Use the spreadsheet.

fip · 01/22/08, 10:35 PM

If you are under 2 pieces of t5 I would grab the t5 helm just because the 2 piece has random rare utilities. Otherwise just grab the VW helm.

Krazen · 01/22/08, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by moghed

Is this true? I was under the impression that on Teron, the only player that couldn't be targeted for shadow of death was the person at the top of the agro list.

No, that's the current target (ie main tank if you're at 129% threat).

I believe Prince is the only encounter where you need to stay below 100%, and only for the first 2 phases. After that, you're free to burn to the 129% mark.

Shadorn · 01/22/08, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by witchedwiz

a little question..
at the moment as destro shadow i'm sitting at 1340ish (incl flask+wizard oil.. excluded shammy ofc i never get one :P), 29,60% crit (incl deva), 202 spell hit...
i'm still using spellstrike hood..
currently i get to choose between t5 helm, hood of hexing and cowl of high engineer... granted that i don't have the time to raid za after lunch, what should i go after (unless i'm lucky and get in a late night ZA), cowl of the high engineer or t5 helm?

With the golden rule of course being to consult a spreadsheet, personally i'd choose the t5 helm for the SB scaling when socketed with a [Chaotic Skyfire Diamond]. This would of course cost you spell hit given your current gear, so that's something to consider also.

Sardaukar · 01/23/08, 3:08 AM

Originally Posted by Krazen

No, that's the current target (ie main tank if you're at 129% threat).

I believe Prince is the only encounter where you need to stay below 100%, and only for the first 2 phases. After that, you're free to burn to the 129% mark.

Archimonde's air burst is the same as Prince I believe.

PSGarak · 01/23/08, 3:47 AM

Originally Posted by weet

From the 'fake' patch notes posted on worldofraids boards.. (Worldofraids forums :: 2.4 on EU PTR)

- Incinerate: The cast time has been increased to 3 sec, from 2.5 sec.
- Bane: This talent now also reduces the cast time of Incinerate, but no longer reduces the cast time of Soulfire.

Assuming that this change was made, what kind of effect would it have upon fire vs shadow scaling? I do not know how to test this properly myself, but thought it was worth bringing up.. seeing as such a change is probably likely at some point in the future (in my opinion).

Incinerate scaling would simply trade improved shadowbolt for emberstorm, and shadow weaving for improved schorch. You would need around 75% ISB uptime for shadowbolt to scale better, but incinerate also has better base damage when immolate is up. The question is whether or not having to cast immolate screws the spec. You also force five trash talent point to emberstorm, and probably another five to improved immolate, which might screw you out of backlash, killing another 3% scaling. Also, at least one warlock would have to remain shadow to keep ISB up on the target for the shadow priests. It would likely end up being the affliction warlock, which will result in lower ISB uptime overall, and a net raid damage decrease.

Total result: Personal and Raid DPS loss unless you have fire mages and no shadow priests, and all your warlocks do it at once, maybe (depending on immo and base damage). Adding in the conflag change, fire-destro becomes a PvP-dps spec. Which does not necessarily mean a PvP-viable spec.

Putting incinerate on bane is necessary imo, but probably not sufficient in any capacity without more fire-specific changes (unless maybe it stays 2.5s casting time, 2.0s with bane). And I'm personally convinced the patch notes are fake, although they're getting better at it.

Arelenda · 01/23/08, 4:42 AM

Yes, patch notes look fake.

If it were true, I think fire would become viable in raids. Higher base damage, lower mana cost, 10% bonus from emberstorm vs ISB, and 15% imp scorch vs 10% shadow weaving. It would be a lot closer and depending on raid setup. I'm not sure how Incinerate works with other people's immolates, though

It would probably still be inferior under most raiding circumstances. But it wouldn't be the complete joke it is now.

Also, it's way prettier.

Originally Posted by PSGarak

Incinerate scaling would simply trade improved shadowbolt for emberstorm, and shadow weaving for improved schorch. You would need around 75% ISB uptime for shadowbolt to scale better, but incinerate also has better base damage when immolate is up. The question is whether or not having to cast immolate screws the spec. You also force five trash talent point to emberstorm, and probably another five to improved immolate, which might screw you out of backlash, killing another 3% scaling. Also, at least one warlock would have to remain shadow to keep ISB up on the target for the shadow priests. It would likely end up being the affliction warlock, which will result in lower ISB uptime overall, and a net raid damage decrease.

Total result: Personal and Raid DPS loss unless you have fire mages and no shadow priests, and all your warlocks do it at once, maybe (depending on immo and base damage). Adding in the conflag change, fire-destro becomes a PvP-dps spec. Which does not necessarily mean a PvP-viable spec.

Putting incinerate on bane is necessary imo, but probably not sufficient in any capacity without more fire-specific changes (unless maybe it stays 2.5s casting time, 2.0s with bane). And I'm personally convinced the patch notes are fake, although they're getting better at it.

• Suggestive · 01/23/08, 9:28 AM

It works with any immolate up on the target (unlike conflag).

Shaby · 01/23/08, 10:33 AM

Hello all.

I've been browsing these forums a lot lately and have gathered some very useful information.

I play an affliction warlock and will probably continue to do so since spamming SB's gets boring really fast for me.
We've managed to clear all current content and still I have this question popping up.
Viability of immolate was always questionable.

I usually use CoS -> UA-> Corr ->siphon life -> immolate (only on encounters which require a lot of moving; Archimonde)
after I've applied all my debufs I start casting SB's. And from here on I reaply my debufs and spam SB's when I can.

I was wondering would it pay off to switch Immolate for Siphon life?
Is there anything wrong with my DPS cycle (I personally am not satisfied with my own output)?

Thanks for all the comments.

Silaine · 01/23/08, 10:34 AM

I got my second piece of tier 5 yesterday and specced demo immediately. I still don't have VST, but I'm keen to try out demo anyway.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I am not sure if I should spec instant corruption and leave the destructive reach and 2% crit from devastate. Or if I should leave points out of demonic resilience for mana feed and put the extra points into devastate.

Any advice?

PS We are starting MH tonight.

Arelenda · 01/23/08, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Silaine

I got my second piece of tier 5 yesterday and specced demo immediately. I still don't have VST, but I'm keen to try out demo anyway.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I am not sure if I should spec instant corruption and leave the destructive reach and 2% crit from devastate. Or if I should leave points out of demonic resilience for mana feed and put the extra points into devastate.

Any advice?

PS We are starting MH tonight.

Your profile hasn't updated yet, you're listed as affliction. I recommend the builds listed in the compendium, obviously. Instant corruption doesn't seem all that useful to me, given the amount of talent points it costs you.

Stran · 01/23/08, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Silaine

I got my second piece of tier 5 yesterday and specced demo immediately. I still don't have VST, but I'm keen to try out demo anyway.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I am not sure if I should spec instant corruption and leave the destructive reach and 2% crit from devastate. Or if I should leave points out of demonic resilience for mana feed and put the extra points into devastate.

Any advice?

PS We are starting MH tonight.

Instant corruption is nice, but for a PVE build I sugest getting destructive reach. It's far too valuable on some fights such as Azgalor. Casting corruption is fine and I do it. 1 point would help to make it a 1.6 sec cast, but you just can't find the point as Demonic resilience is more valuable, so is mana feed and destructive reach.

Lianya · 01/23/08, 12:17 PM

Leo tanking.

I just wanted to say thanks for all the information around tanking Leo, from spec ideas to the actually timing of spells during the fight. Our guild got him on the 2nd try (got the enrage on the first attempt), and using CoD for threat, etc, was magic.

This board is really a tremendous source of info, and I just wanted to say thank you to you guys for taking the time to help.

Gremmik · 01/23/08, 12:44 PM

I was wondering if anyone could post a link for the gear they used to get the 225 FR. I have searched a little on the net and on youtube and haven't been able to find a defined list.

Bogeywoman · 01/23/08, 1:01 PM

infernoweave - Wowhead Search

Lianya · 01/23/08, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gremmik

I was wondering if anyone could post a link for the gear they used to get the 225 FR. I have searched a little on the net and on youtube and haven't been able to find a defined list.

Get the Infernoweave badge items (100 Badges), link above. You then only need 25 more FR to get capped (assuming correct build). You can get this a couple of ways. You can use the Leatherworking patch applied to the 4 pieces of FR gear to add another 32 FR, but I chose to slap as much stam on those instead (150 Health to chest, +12 Stam to boots, and the Leatherworking +40 to Stam item to pants).

The other item I would use to get over the cap, is the FR ring you get from the Trial's quests that culminate by killing Mag. (I will have that item this week). So you would only need to swap out a total of 5 items using that ring, or 4 if you apply the +8 FR patches to the items.

I can provide specific links to the Ring if needed.

Trickykid · 01/23/08, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by Arelenda

Yes, patch notes look fake.

If it were true, I think fire would become viable in raids. Higher base damage, lower mana cost, 10% bonus from emberstorm vs ISB, and 15% imp scorch vs 10% shadow weaving. It would be a lot closer and depending on raid setup. I'm not sure how Incinerate works with other people's immolates, though

It would probably still be inferior under most raiding circumstances. But it wouldn't be the complete joke it is now.

Also, it's way prettier.

If Incinerate had the same +damage coefficient as Shadowbolt it would scale better with full raid buffs/debuffs. Also, if you went down that road, the talents chosen make immolate significantly higher DPCT and it is worth keeping up yourself. I tweaked the spreadsheet a bit to mimic the fake release notes and going from Shadow to Fire increased my dps by ~100. TPS is also steadier since you don't get wild crit strings with ISB anymore. And way fewer shards on progression nights

Silverstorm · 01/23/08, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lianya

Get the Infernoweave badge items (100 Badges), link above. You then only need 25 more FR to get capped (assuming correct build). You can get this a couple of ways. You can use the Leatherworking patch applied to the 4 pieces of FR gear to add another 32 FR, but I chose to slap as much stam on those instead (150 Health to chest, +12 Stam to boots, and the Leatherworking +40 to Stam item to pants).

The other item I would use to get over the cap, is the FR ring you get from the Trial's quests that culminate by killing Mag. (I will have that item this week). So you would only need to swap out a total of 5 items using that ring, or 4 if you apply the +8 FR patches to the items.

I can provide specific links to the Ring if needed.

Amulet of the Torn-heart - Items - World of Warcraft

FR Neck from the The Cipher of Damnation - Quests - World of Warcraft quest line. This chain also unlocks the Trials quests.

That will get you to 224 FR. The difference between 364 and 365 FR shouldn't be significant enough to matter.

Sardaukar · 01/23/08, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Trickykid

If Incinerate had the same +damage coefficient as Shadowbolt it would scale better with full raid buffs/debuffs. Also, if you went down that road, the talents chosen make immolate significantly higher DPCT and it is worth keeping up yourself. I tweaked the spreadsheet a bit to mimic the fake release notes and going from Shadow to Fire increased my dps by ~100. TPS is also steadier since you don't get wild crit strings with ISB anymore. And way fewer shards on progression nights

Hehe sacing imp for free would be nice

Vinniepaz · 01/23/08, 5:09 PM

Can someone point me to a guide or information that tells me what resistances I should have for the various dungeons.

So far nothing I have run actually needs any res. (Kara, Gruul, just started SSC/TK).

I'd like to be proactive and get it all together rather than reactive and die X runs before I get what I need.

Thanks.

Arelenda · 01/23/08, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Vinniepaz

Can someone point me to a guide or information that tells me what resistances I should have for the various dungeons.

So far nothing I have run actually needs any res. (Kara, Gruul, just started SSC/TK).

I'd like to be proactive and get it all together rather than reactive and die X runs before I get what I need.

Thanks.

Leotheras tanking requires FR gear (3rd boss in SSC)
Mother Shahraz requires Shadow res (9th? boss in BT) for the entire raid. Greenies will do.

Zaq · 01/23/08, 5:23 PM

You'll need a capped Fr set for Leo if you're tanking that (365 Buffed), the badge peices are wonderful for this, but a mix of greens probably works. You'll want a partial fr set for kael. And a full shadow set for BT (Much of which can be crafted once you're in t6).

Saraa · 01/23/08, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by ravenlust

I've got an issue that i'd gladly take some advice on. Please dont give me the "Dps Less" either -_-.

Im a Shadowbolt Turret, through and through. Destro lock with T5 and BT/Mh gear.

I'm sitting at:

1347 Shadow Damage with Fel armor (no succy sac or shadow and flame)
193 (15.3%) hit
22.99% crit

Its nothing great, but it works. Compared to other casters my gear is equal if not slightly lower in comparison. I've always been able to manage my threat fairly well (mainly via resists lolz) However, i recently picked up the [Blind seers Icon] and the +24 hit off that gave me that little edge i needed to somehow give me problems. I normally wait till about 70-100K threat (totally fight dependent, but lets say a normal tank and spank) to soulshatter. But its getting to the point now where im having to pause 6-10 secs every bolt or dot like an affliction lock for the first 30K of the fight. I then slowly open up and get a string of 7-8K shadowbolts and immediately end up on the tanks butt with aggro. With all the multiple tank swap fights in BT this has gotten very annoying.

It used to be that i was #1 on dmg by 100K. Now i'm #3-6 because i have to sit down and play poker in between spells so i dont rip aggro. I'm about to regem for +dmg and reduce my crit. I dont want to, but i feel it may be my only option. ISP is my only friend :*(

Any suggestions? I've been crunching numbers and still no answers.

You may enjoy the benefits of Prism of Inner Calm of off Vashj. Sorry that I am unable to make a live link, but it reduces threat from your crits. I am also curious what the community thinks of this item. I won one in a random roll because no one wanted to spend DKP on it. I did a forum search but did not find anything. My gear is not good enough to warrant equipping it at this point, but I think it may be useful down the road. I have also heard rumors that the item may be looked at for a buff.

Vlar · 01/23/08, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by Arelenda

Yes, patch notes look fake.

If it were true, I think fire would become viable in raids. Higher base damage, lower mana cost, 10% bonus from emberstorm vs ISB, and 15% imp scorch vs 10% shadow weaving. It would be a lot closer and depending on raid setup. I'm not sure how Incinerate works with other people's immolates, though

It would probably still be inferior under most raiding circumstances. But it wouldn't be the complete joke it is now.

Also, it's way prettier.

What do you think about the idea of adding to ISB to include fire damage and making Incinerate proc it as well? Would it be too powerful with emberstorm?