PVE Raiding Compendium - Page 46

Trickykid · 01/23/08, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by Vlar

What do you think about the idea of adding to ISB to include fire damage and making Incinerate proc it as well? Would it be too powerful with emberstorm?

They'd need to re-fit Mages in response to that. Given that just changing the coefficient on Incinerate pushes it at the level of (or beyond) Shadow... adding another 10-15% damage on top of that isn't likely.

calisti · 01/23/08, 6:42 PM

Originally Posted by Gremmik

I was wondering if anyone could post a link for the gear they used to get the 225 FR. I have searched a little on the net and on youtube and haven't been able to find a defined list.

Here is my current fire resist set for Leotheras the Blind. I actually use a Felguard instead of a Fel Hunter, so I only get +35 resist from master demonologist instead of +70. As such, i had to compensate and add a little more fire resist gear than most people use. The set itself is designed to maximize fire resist and stamina. Most of the non-FR pieces were chosen due to their high stamina values. This actually gives me 23 more fire resist than I need, but I opted to go this route because the fire resist items give more stamina than my normal DPS set.

Head: [Collar of Cho'gall] (Glyph of Power: +22 spell damage / +14 spell hit)
Amulet: [Amulet of the Torn-heart]
Shoulders: [Mantle of the Corruptor] (Greater Orb of Inscription: +12 spell damage / +15 spell crit)
Chest: [Infernoweave Robe] (+150 hp)
Back: [Wyrmcultist's Cloak] (Greater Fire Resist: +15 FR)
Wrists: [Fury of the Ursine] (Spellpower: +15 spell damage)
Gloves: [Infernoweave Gloves] (Spellpower: +20 Spell damage)
Belt: [Nethershard Girdle]
Pants: [Infernoweave Leggings]
Boots: [Infernoweave Boots] (Fortitude: +12 Stamina)
Ring 1:[Phoenix-Fire Band]
Ring 2: [Ashyen's Gift]
Trinket 1: [Commander's Badge]
Trinket 2: [Darkmoon Card: Crusade]
Weapon: [Staff of Infinite Mysteries] (Greater Spellpower: +40 spell damage)

Alternate item in case you're missing one of the other fire resist pieces:

Wrists: [Flameheart Bracers]

Shadorn · 01/23/08, 9:14 PM

Originally Posted by Zaq

You'll need a capped Fr set for Leo if you're tanking that (365 Buffed), the badge peices are wonderful for this, but a mix of greens probably works. You'll want a partial fr set for kael. And a full shadow set for BT (Much of which can be crafted once you're in t6).

I've never had a problem tanking Capernian (Kael encounter) with 0 FR, spam heals in phase 1 (get a pally aura if you're struggling) and the mace buff for phase 3 make FR a wasted stat.

• Nicarras · 01/23/08, 9:16 PM

Yeah I used to tank Leo for awhile in the beginning of our SSC days. But towards the end we just threw a feral druid on it in full FR gear and I just dps'd. It seemed easier on the healers for some reason.

Kael'thas, never wear FR you are right, healers should be fine on phase 1 and then in phase 3 it should take 2 healers max to keep you up.

nathanrahl · 01/23/08, 10:29 PM

If ISB affected Incinerate you'd have to loose out on alot of things to get it with a traditional 0/21/40 build so no the dmg difference wouldnt be staggering... i'd assume it would be a choice based on your crit % and loosing imp immolate or semothing to trade for it

legionaus · 01/24/08, 12:08 AM

Question about dot rotation.
i am not sure if this has been asked before but i wanted to know what spell rotation locks use?

Affliction 41/0/20
UA > Corruption > siphon Life > Agony > spam SB > reapply as they fall off, and SB when not dotting.

when i was affliction that would be my rotation. i wasn't sure if anyone had done any theorycrafting for the highest dps dot rotation?

Destro build 0/21/40
COD > corruption > immolate > Spam shadow bold and reapply cod when it falls off.

• Nicarras · 01/24/08, 12:37 AM

Optimal Aff Lock Rotation I found was.

(curse) UA -> Corr -> Immo -> SL, then SB filler

Optimal Dest (0/21/40) Rotation is.

(curse) SB, refresh curse when neeeded, LT when needed.

Use the spreadsheet you find for Dest, casting anything other than curse+sb turns into less dps.

Gumibear · 01/24/08, 1:22 AM

Originally Posted by nathanrahl

If ISB affected Incinerate you'd have to loose out on alot of things to get it with a traditional 0/21/40 build so no the dmg difference wouldnt be staggering... i'd assume it would be a choice based on your crit % and loosing imp immolate or semothing to trade for it

If 1 Warlock's Immolate works for all Warlocks as stated earlier, a raid could have one Warlock designated as the Immolate bitch. Though I'm pretty sure the benefit of ISB-for-fire damage and the other crit talents would outweigh the benefit of Improved Immolate if one had to choose.

Talosh · 01/24/08, 5:31 AM

Originally Posted by Silaine

I got my second piece of tier 5 yesterday and specced demo immediately. I still don't have VST, but I'm keen to try out demo anyway.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I am not sure if I should spec instant corruption and leave the destructive reach and 2% crit from devastate. Or if I should leave points out of demonic resilience for mana feed and put the extra points into devastate.

Any advice?

PS We are starting MH tonight.

For pure PvE the spec you choose is the best for Demo.
Since I am doing a bit of PvP too and am too greedy to respec I have 6/44/11.
Sure it results in less DPS, but the main aspect is to learn to keep your felguard alive.
You'll notice later on, that some encounters are not playable as a Demo (e.g. Najentus and Kaz'rogal),
but demo is much more fun than the simple SB-spam.

Eternal One · 01/24/08, 6:34 AM

Greetings my fellow warlocks.

Please advice - what kind of gear upgrades should I consider for my character? Currently Our guild is farming SSC/TK. Also, I'm at the point quite satisfied with my damage output (top 1-2 dps is enough for me

. Will item upgrades from SSC/TK be worth the time and dkp spent farming them? Difference seems negligible.

The World of Warcraft Armory

My thoughts:
[Boots of the Shifting Nightmare]
[Mantle of the Corruptor]
[Robe of Hateful Echoes] (probably not going to get Robe from Vashj, should I wait for T5 or get this one?)
[Nathrezim Mindblade] and [Orb of the Soul-Eater]
Should I consider T5 helm or [Cowl of the Grand Engineer]. Or there's almost no difference? Should I even consider them if I have a [Spellstrike Hood]?

Fafhrd · 01/24/08, 6:38 AM

Re Demonology in MH: If a guild is truly serious about progression in T6 content, I don't see how a demo warlock would have a place. You want one affliction warlock and the rest specced for max dps, i.e. DS/S&F. Demo is also a problem when learning the "hardest" encounters on MH/BT - where you don't need the distraction of keeping a pet alive/resummon etc.

Talosh · 01/24/08, 7:19 AM

Originally Posted by Fafhrd

Re Demonology in MH: If a guild is truly serious about progression in T6 content, I don't see how a demo warlock would have a place. You want one affliction warlock and the rest specced for max dps, i.e. DS/S&F. Demo is also a problem when learning the "hardest" encounters on MH/BT - where you don't need the distraction of keeping a pet alive/resummon etc.

Depends. For trashmobs Demo is better for CC of the Necromancer since the Felguard can intercept one of their shadowbolts. For the gargoyles which the warlocks pulls them to the zombies for AoE you get less damage with Soul Link and keep your pet alive with the DoTs.
And especially fights like Archimonde and Illidan are absolutely no dps race. The main aspect is to stay alive and you can absorb more damage with soul link, your pet needs no healing because of the T5 bonus.
For encounters like Bloodboil you have the advantage to burst more dps with the felguard because you produce less aggro.

But in general you are right, with destro my dps is higher, but since we have both instances on farm, the pure sb-spam got a bit boring for me.

Crepe · 01/24/08, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Nicarras

Yeah I used to tank Leo for awhile in the beginning of our SSC days. But towards the end we just threw a feral druid on it in full FR gear and I just dps'd. It seemed easier on the healers for some reason.

Kael'thas, never wear FR you are right, healers should be fine on phase 1 and then in phase 3 it should take 2 healers max to keep you up.

Druid likely has more HP due to bear scaling. We had the same issue: I was high-threat, but hard to heal (smaller HP pool, bigger chance of one-shot). Our prot paladin took over and was way easier to heal (reduced magic damage, higher HP, self-bubble to remove debuff stack at 15%), but less threat as a result.

Arelenda · 01/24/08, 1:55 PM

Yes, that is correct. Bears typically are more reliable, having more hp. Warlocks tanking on Leo can work, but plenty of people choose to use other classes to tank the demon.

Arelenda · 01/24/08, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by Eternal One

Greetings my fellow warlocks.

Please advice - what kind of gear upgrades should I consider for my character? Currently Our guild is farming SSC/TK. Also, I'm at the point quite satisfied with my damage output (top 1-2 dps is enough for me

. Will item upgrades from SSC/TK be worth the time and dkp spent farming them? Difference seems negligible.

The World of Warcraft Armory

My thoughts:
[Boots of the Shifting Nightmare]
[Mantle of the Corruptor]
[Robe of Hateful Echoes] (probably not going to get Robe from Vashj, should I wait for T5 or get this one?)
[Nathrezim Mindblade] and [Orb of the Soul-Eater]
Should I consider T5 helm or [Cowl of the Grand Engineer]. Or there's almost no difference? Should I even consider them if I have a [Spellstrike Hood]?

Most upgrades in SSC/TK are usually comparable to gear you have. The boots of the shifting nightmare and Vashj robes tend to be exceptions.

• Nicarras · 01/24/08, 5:30 PM

Originally Posted by Fafhrd

Re Demonology in MH: If a guild is truly serious about progression in T6 content, I don't see how a demo warlock would have a place. You want one affliction warlock and the rest specced for max dps, i.e. DS/S&F. Demo is also a problem when learning the "hardest" encounters on MH/BT - where you don't need the distraction of keeping a pet alive/resummon etc.

We will use one Demo lock occasionally, but he still beats most of the Mages so I think we'll let it go.

Ammanas · 01/24/08, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Eternal One

Greetings my fellow warlocks.

Please advice - what kind of gear upgrades should I consider for my character? Currently Our guild is farming SSC/TK. Also, I'm at the point quite satisfied with my damage output (top 1-2 dps is enough for me

. Will item upgrades from SSC/TK be worth the time and dkp spent farming them? Difference seems negligible.

The World of Warcraft Armory

My thoughts:
[Boots of the Shifting Nightmare]
[Mantle of the Corruptor]
[Robe of Hateful Echoes] (probably not going to get Robe from Vashj, should I wait for T5 or get this one?)
[Nathrezim Mindblade] and [Orb of the Soul-Eater]
Should I consider T5 helm or [Cowl of the Grand Engineer]. Or there's almost no difference? Should I even consider them if I have a [Spellstrike Hood]?

Use the spreadsheet! Not being a dick, but honestly plugging your stats/gear/spec into a program that does all of the correct math for you is going to get better results than asking on a forum and getting responses from idiots like me. I will say this: the Vashj robe is THE best chest in the game (and the only SSC/TK piece you will never replace), so if you want to think on those terms most definitely save DKP for it. Since you're guild is farming T5 content I'm assuming you're going to be starting Bt/Hyjal soon, so you might want to keep in mind what items are easily replacable from there and which items are not. For example the only robes that drop come from Archimonde and Illidan, so you probably won't be seeing those for awhile.

Spreadsheet link: WoW Warlock DPS Spreadsheet by Leulier

Eternal One · 01/25/08, 4:48 AM

Well, basicly the Spreadsheet says:
1) don't ever stack crit
2) don't stack haste until 1500 sSPD.
3) stack hit until 16.

TheSorcerer · 01/25/08, 4:52 AM

I'm raidleader in a guild currently progressing through MH and BT. Recently I had a discussion with our warlocks about the benefit of Malediction. We have an affliction warlock for providing imp to our tanks and debuffing bosses with Shadow Embrace. All of the other warlocks are specced to destruction (0/21/40). Currently or destrcution locks provide CoS, CoR and CoE. Our warlocks argue, that an affliction Warlock using CoA will loose too much dps if speccing Malediction and using CoS instead. However, this seemed very odd to me, so I made the numbers and want to get some feedback here if I'm correct and might missed something.

I used our latest TK raid for numbers (yes, alot of stuff went wrongt that night). Our affliction lock (Psyckoo) gets about 200 dps from using a specced CoA. One of our destruction locks used CoD a few times and got about 160 dps from it (roughly 10k hits). That's mere 40 dps difference, thus a from Malediction improved CoS would only need to provide a 40 dps increase to have it be applied by an affliction lock instead of a destruction lock. Well, our Voidreaver kill that night had more than 4,5k shadow and arcane dps, that would sum up to more than 130 dps gain from Malediction.

My conclusion: having CoS with Malediction applied by an affliction warlock instead of a destruction warlock which uses CoD for dps instead will increase raid dps. Am I right?

Eternal One · 01/25/08, 5:19 AM

Originally Posted by TheSorcerer

I'm raidleader in a guild currently progressing through MH and BT. Recently I had a discussion with our warlocks about the benefit of Malediction. We have an affliction warlock for providing imp to our tanks and debuffing bosses with Shadow Embrace. All of the other warlocks are specced to destruction (0/21/40). Currently or destrcution locks provide CoS, CoR and CoE. Our warlocks argue, that an affliction Warlock using CoA will loose too much dps if speccing Malediction and using CoS instead. However, this seemed very odd to me, so I made the numbers and want to get some feedback here if I'm correct and might missed something.

I used our latest TK raid for numbers (yes, alot of stuff went wrongt that night). Our affliction lock (Psyckoo) gets about 200 dps from using a specced CoA. One of our destruction locks used CoD a few times and got about 160 dps from it (roughly 10k hits). That's mere 40 dps difference, thus a from Malediction improved CoS would only need to provide a 40 dps increase to have it be applied by an affliction lock instead of a destruction lock. Well, our Voidreaver kill that night had more than 4,5k shadow and arcane dps, that would sum up to more than 130 dps gain from Malediction.

My conclusion: having CoS with Malediction applied by an affliction warlock instead of a destruction warlock which uses CoD for dps instead will increase raid dps. Am I right?

- Can come with Malediction, which scales with the amount of Shadow/Arcane users in the raid. It adds 2.7% over the untalented CoS. (113% talented, 110% untalented, 1.13/1.1 = 102.73%)

It's actually 122.85. And of course it inscreases raid dps. But the question is, if affliction lock specs destro and does 500 more dps, will it justify the difference from improved CoS, blood pact and VE?

Borodin · 01/25/08, 8:20 AM

I think it's still worth having a "Raid Support" Warlock with talents such Improved Imp, Malediction and of course Shadow Embrace.
They will still deliver good if not exceptional damage and the -5% Physical damage from SE is very useful in encounters like Gurtogg (Fel Rage).
Of course you really only need 1 such Warlock, the rest can safely spec full on 0/21/40 or similar raid DPS builds.

galzohar · 01/25/08, 10:07 AM

I don't see how you guys are speccing into imp imp. 43 in affliction is a must and 17 in destro is a must as well, leaving only 1 point for it. Only talents you could drop from affliction are from the 4th tier onwards, but all talents from there on are dps talents (note I didn't even take CoEx nor imp howl, but took evertyhing else). Only thing you could MAYBE drop is nightfall or the range talent, however I don't think they're really worth 14 more stamina to your tank. Range helps stay alive and nightfall is not too bad of a dps increase. Although I suppose if you *really* want you can give up one of those and get that imp maxed.

Krazen · 01/25/08, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by galzohar

I don't see how you guys are speccing into imp imp. 43 in affliction is a must and 17 in destro is a must as well, leaving only 1 point for it. Only talents you could drop from affliction are from the 4th tier onwards, but all talents from there on are dps talents (note I didn't even take CoEx nor imp howl, but took evertyhing else). Only thing you could MAYBE drop is nightfall or the range talent, however I don't think they're really worth 14 more stamina to your tank. Range helps stay alive and nightfall is not too bad of a dps increase. Although I suppose if you *really* want you can give up one of those and get that imp maxed.

Nightfall is the clear option. Otherwise you are stuck with the dubious distinction of having Destruction Range but not affliction range.

You might as well drop Destructive Reach as well in this situation; Affliction locks don't really need the threat reduction.

Emolate · 01/25/08, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by galzohar

I don't see how you guys are speccing into imp imp. 43 in affliction is a must and 17 in destro is a must as well, leaving only 1 point for it. Only talents you could drop from affliction are from the 4th tier onwards, but all talents from there on are dps talents (note I didn't even take CoEx nor imp howl, but took evertyhing else). Only thing you could MAYBE drop is nightfall or the range talent, however I don't think they're really worth 14 more stamina to your tank. Range helps stay alive and nightfall is not too bad of a dps increase. Although I suppose if you *really* want you can give up one of those and get that imp maxed.

Like this.

I don't see why 43 points in Affliction is a must for a support Warlock. At all.

A Maledicted CoS and spamming Shadowbolts along with the Destruction Warlocks while keeping up Immolate and Corruption isn't exactly a slouch.

Both range-extending talents. Both threat-reduction talents. Shadow Mastery, Malediction, Imp Imp 3/3, a buffed Healthstone, and Intensity.

Imp Imp gives your party members nearly 900 Health. Since Affliction locks are almost guaranteed to have an Imp out at all times, putting 3 points there is a no-brainer, in my opinion.

Krazen · 01/25/08, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Emolate

Like this.

I don't see why 43 points in Affliction is a must for a support Warlock. At all.

A Maledicted CoS and spamming Shadowbolts along with the Destruction Warlocks while keeping up Immolate and Corruption isn't exactly a slouch.

Both range-extending talents. Both threat-reduction talents. Shadow Mastery, Malediction, Imp Imp 3/3, a buffed Healthstone, and Intensity.

Imp Imp gives your party members nearly 900 Health. Since Affliction locks are almost guaranteed to have an Imp out at all times, putting 3 points there is a no-brainer, in my opinion.

Err, you lost both UA and Ruin.....that player will do the same dps as the tank.