The numbers were an approximation since I didn't have the real numbers available to me. The spreadsheet tells me (and I find these to be accurate):

UA: 4168
Co: 4358
SL: 3097
Im: 2118
SB: 2929

Re Immolate: The problem is that my typical raid has no CoE nor imp scorch and always has a shadow priest. On top of this, my affliction gear has close to 200 more shadow damage than fire damage. The DPCT of immolate is 1310 vs. 1129 of shadowbolt. Under these conditions it's a DPS loss for me to use immolate.. I presume because of the increased mana cost and reduced ISB uptime?

Plugging the above damage numbers back into my calculator and simplified the format a little bit. This time we have haste rating, dps (just total damage over 600s), and change from 0% haste. For a baseline, the spreadsheet tells me that my total damage with .1s lag and 1.25s avg dot gap is 1281.60 with 0% haste.

Haste: 0.0
dps: 1303.33
change: 0.0

Haste: 15.7
dps: 1306.99
change: 1.0028

Haste: 31.4
dps: 1315.47
change: 1.0093

Haste: 47.1
dps: 1323.16
change: 1.0152

Haste: 62.8
dps: 1326.17
change: 1.0175

Haste: 78.5
dps: 1325.59
change: 1.0171

Haste: 94.2
dps: 1325.77
change: 1.0172

Haste: 109.9
dps: 1338.75
change: 1.0272

Haste: 125.6
dps: 1341.43
change: 1.0292

Haste: 141.3
dps: 1349.69
change: 1.0356

Haste: 157.0
dps: 1353.56
change: 1.0385

For grins, the spreadsheet tells me that with 10% haste my dps is 1336.17

So the spreadsheet shows 10% haste as 4.25% damage increase.. my model shows it as 3.85%. So haste may in fact be _over_valued on the spreadsheet. Still don't think I know enough to say anything conclusive about haste => damage for affliction locks.

Perhaps it's confusion with my use of "they".. let me rephrase my statement. Where I originally said:

"This is NOT true, for the same reasons as I stated above. Eventually your immolate dot will run into your ua/co dots and they'll take precedence on the refresh."

It should read as:

"This is NOT true, for the same reasons as I stated above. Eventually your immolate dot will expire at the same time as your UA and corruption dots. To maximize damage when this happens, the right thing to do is to refresh UA and Corruption and then refresh immolate.. even if this leaves a several second gap of immolate downtime."

It doesn't matter when you launch your first immolate cast, over a relatively short period of time (less than a minute) your immolate will expire within a second UA and corruption.

About immolate:

makes sense to drop it, then. Weird, I figured affliction would always cast SB. I'll add something about it to the compendium.

There are a few really good items that do only shadow damage: [Ritssyn's Lost Pendant], [Orb of the Soul-Eater], [Nethervoid Cloak], [Boots of the Shifting Nightmare] and the FSW, so it makes sense that warlocks run around doing with more +shadow damage over general spellpower.


About haste for affliction:

I think you've proven that haste should be valued at less than 50% of +damage for sustained damage, for affliction locks.

Maybe it's worth using that simulator of yours to test a few other things? For example, it should be very easy for you now to figure out what dps gain you'd get with +157 spellpower, or what happens if you lose 5% hit.

How about adding Dr.Damage (http://www.wowace.com/wiki/DrDamage) to the tools/mods section of the first post?

It's useful for evaluating the effects of stats on spells directly in-game. Allows to manually add crit/hit etc. to the equipped gear, also scans for buffs and debuffs on mobs and applies the modifiers accordingly. It's only missing manual haste modification at the moment, something the author will hopefully add in the near future.

It's easier to test the spell hit than the spellpower.. mostly because the spellpower numbers are taken straight from the spreadsheet where spell hit is something that I control directly in the simulator. That said, I can still take 157 damage off the spreadsheet, get the spell damage numbers, and run the simulation.

Just a little side note a nice macro for soulstoneing its pretty similar to the Vash macro and works good


/use Master Soulstone
/script local coremsg = nil if (IsItemInRange("Master Soulstone","target") == 1) then coremsg = "SS on YOU" else coremsg = "Get closer for SS" end SendChatMessage(coremsg,"WHISPER","Orcish",UnitName("target"))

(for horde change the orcish if you are alliance)

Hi, I'm loving this PVE Compedium and I'll just be adding to some of the discussion. I've had this damn uncertainty that's been bugging me for so long.

It's to do with the relative effectiveness of Spell Haste, especially to it's effectiveness vs Spell Crit. This is for 0/21/40 DS/SNF LOCKS ONLY. And for experiments sake, assume casting shadowbolts infinitely. The original poster says as a rough guide under destro : Spell hit > Spell crit / spell haste / spell dmg. I'm looking for an even more accurate heirachy.

Putting item budgets aside, I just want to know what 1 spell haste rating is worth compared to 1 spell crit rating. I've looked into shadowpriest.com (SimulationCraft/Scaling/Warlock - Shadowpriest.com Wiki) and it says that with 1100+ dmg, 200 hit, 400 spell crit:
1 Spell Damage = 0.795 dps increase
1 Spell Haste Rating = 0.663 dps increase
1 Spell Crit Rating = 0.396 dps increase

Even at lower spell crits, the order remains the same - Spell damage > Spell haste > Spell crit.

Now, I've been going off on that working out which pieces of gear are an upgrade for me by simply doing multiplication of the differences of stats and seeing which item has a higher dps increase. I'd just like to know if anyone else apart from this shadowpriest.com guy has done any solid experiments to test spell haste out.

I've been reading alot of opinionated theories like spell haste makes u go oom faster = more life tap = less dps, or spell haste is crap unless u stack it (which makes a little more sense) and so forth. What I'm requesting is if anyone out there knows the true relationship between spell haste/spell dmg/spell crit.

Thanks in advance =).

First time poster and many page reader here...I'm very sorry if this topic has been covered before and if it has, please refer me to the page as I cannot find this discussion in depth.

Long story short, Our guild is still running Kara for a few people but most all are geared for the next level. My character is Tbona on hydraxis and I'm bored stiff with affliction...have been it too long. I only respec to aff when I'm needed to help with Illhoof or some no show for a dps slot.

Currently I'm 0/41/20 and love it. With my 'raiding' gear on I have 168 hit, and 24% crit, and 1216 spell damage (I'm at work, could be a smidge off. Items in possetion that may not be on armory are trinkets, spellstrike set, gladiators war staff and shifting probabilities cloak.) For Gruul's I do have a 202 hit set..just FYI

How viable is 0/41/20 for the next level (SSC, etc.)? For pet non-friendly encounters, send him in and sacrifice at appropiate time, adding 10% spell damage and 2% mana, or saccy sac.

By the spreadsheet I constantly show 0/41/20 in the running with 0/21/40 at my gear level. Anyone experienced with this? Or should I just suck it up and go with the old stand by 41/0/20>.<??? BTW we have 3 other warlocks(all affliction blends) and great healers.

Any and all advice much appreciated.

Thanks,

T

You might have demon your demon dying on pet-unsafe bosses. However, no one can deny the power of demonology on fights where it doesn't die. 0/40/21 is a very powerful alternative to classic 0/21/40, as well.

From the top of my head:

SSC:
good: Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Karatress (can tank Leo!)
good if 2p T5: Morogrim
bad: Vashj

TK:
good: Al'ar, VR
good if 2p T5: Kael'thas
not sure: Solarian

Hyjal: Most fights should be ok with demonology.
BT: some fights will require 2p T5, other than that it should be fine.

This is all from memory, there are good guides out there, there's one linked in the compendium and there's others on this forum. Do some research. I'm pretty sure a well played, well specced demonologist can be competitive on the meter.

Quick question (as I don't have time to browse through 29 pages atm);

As 0/21/40, is it better to consistantly spam Shadowbolt even with Curse of Elements and full Scorch debuffs in a raid environment?

(1201dmg/202hit/19.87%crit)

Or would it be better to Immo -> SB and refresh Immolate during fades?

No amount of haste or Heroism will affect the GCD.

So your question is has the right scenario in it.