The big issues with 40/21 is the Succy's shadow attack eats imp SB and she has low health so you can't run with Soul link much.
If imp SB is changed to only affect the Warlock that made the crit, that makes Fire a more attractive spec to me. I doubt imp SB changed will happen. Even if imp SB is changed to 15% (instead of 20), Shadow is better to me due to buffing raid dps.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
So, assuming Life Tap gives 16% mana back, INT would not only adds DPS by increasing crit, but also by increasing the return on Life Tap. My question is how much INT do you need to equal 1 Dam. I'm pretty sure the ratio is very crummy, but I was hoping for a definitive number to deflate the "stack more Int" argument for keeping this Life Tap nerf.
So, assuming Life Tap gives 16% mana back, INT would not only adds DPS by increasing crit, but also by increasing the return on Life Tap. My question is how much INT do you need to equal 1 Dam. I'm pretty sure the ratio is very crummy, but I was hoping for a definitive number to deflate the "stack more Int" argument for keeping this Life Tap nerf.
Well, 1 crit rating = about 1 damage, and 1 int adds about 1/4 of a crit rating. Even if you double the value, int offers a poor return.
I have just updated my 2.0-beta2 spreadsheet to reflect the LT change.
With the default 0/21/40 build + T5 gear level I get :
2.3 LT :
1 int = 0.30 damage
2.4 LT :
1 int = 0.53 damage
I read the introduction post and searched the thread but asn't able to find what I as looking for. Are there numbers on how much chain chuggin mana potions as a destruction lock will increase your personal dps? I believe it should be something around 2 * 1.5 * personal DPS / pot cooldown, because a pot gives you close to twice Lifetap mana and thus allows you to skip two Lifetaps each pot cooldown. That means if your warlock has 1400 DPS you can calculate:
Are my numbers correct? Wouldn't it make sense to mention that in the inital post (there's nothing on chain chugging mana potions as a destruction lock there at all).
I read the introduction post and searched the thread but asn't able to find what I as looking for. Are there numbers on how much chain chuggin mana potions as a destruction lock will increase your personal dps? I believe it should be something around 2 * 1.5 * personal DPS / pot cooldown, because a pot gives you close to twice Lifetap mana and thus allows you to skip two Lifetaps each pot cooldown. That means if your warlock has 1400 DPS you can calculate:
Are my numbers correct? Wouldn't it make sense to mention that in the inital post (there's nothing on chain chugging mana potions as a destruction lock there at all).
That is more or less correct, although this is best case scenario. Most fights require you to move, and those are ideal for sneaking in a Life Tap. It works the other way around, too. If you end up having to LT, you have 1.5 seconds to reposition.
Are my numbers correct? Wouldn't it make sense to mention that in the inital post (there's nothing on chain chugging mana potions as a destruction lock there at all).
Since there are so many little tweaks like this that can be done, I think it makes more sense to (as the OP does already) link to the DPS spreadsheet. People can use that to tweak with all kinds of setups if they like. For example for mana potions, you just add 100 MP5 to the sheet, and you get the DPS bonus from chaining mana pots.
A comprehensive list of every question that might ever be asked drowns out the important ones. In my opinion the OP does a great job of giving the broad strokes and covering the important questions that might be non-obvious to a beginning warlock raider. It also provides links to other resources that can answer more specific questions, for example the link to leulier's spreadsheet to answer the question "how much DPS do I gain by spamming mana potions?"
I think the more apt question, however, should be "do I gain more DPS by spamming mana potions or destruction potions?" For me the answer is that mana potions are better than destruction potions on any fight longer than two and a half minutes, assuming the fight doesn't have down time where I can lifetap "for free." I encourage you to check the spreadsheet to find out what the answer is for your particular gear set.
1. The ISB change is a rumor based on fake patch notes.
However the prevalence of lock/spriest 2s teams in arena and the PvP-centric LT nerf we are discussing lends credence to the idea of another drastic PVE nerf for PvP balance. Its just grist for the mill, as they say.
2. Affliction still shines at T4 (where you'll have FSW) and loses ground once ridiculous amounts of hit, crit and haste start showing up on drops; i.e. late T5 and most of T6/Sunwell. But it is slightly *more* viable, if you have your heart set on the flaming snake of doom. The real question is the converse: Will fire be viable at T4 with Spellfire? Considering the lack of hit and crit on the three peices, and the fact that the spellfire belt locks you out of [Girdle of Ruination] or the 2.4-badge-reward [Belt of Blasting], I'm going to give a preliminary no, but its a bit early to call.
Edit: Item Tags
Last edited by Fizwidget : 02/25/08 at 11:57 AM.
Dauntless: "Incapable of being intimidated or discouraged; fearless"
1. The ISB change is a rumor based on fake patch notes.
However the prevalence of lock/spriest 2s teams in arena and the PvP-centric LT nerf we are discussing lends credence to the idea of another drastic PVE nerf for PvP balance. Its just grist for the mill, as they say.
2. Affliction still shines at T4 (where you'll have FSW) and loses ground once ridiculous amounts of hit, crit and haste start showing up on drops; i.e. late T5 and most of T6/Sunwell. But it is slightly *more* viable, if you have your heart set on the flaming snake of doom. The real question is the converse: Will fire be viable at T4 with Spellfire? Considering the lack of hit and crit on the three peices, and the fact that the spellfire belt locks you out of Girdle of Ruination or the 2.4-badge-reward Belt of Blasting, I'm going to give a preliminary no, but its a bit early to call.
Eh? All three pieces of Spellfire have crit on. The fact that none have any hit on is the main problem, but you can always socket for it.
One more thing about the leo tanking... I haven't yet to get there but i was wandering if the spellstone can remove the staking of the debuff he dose on you? I am sorry if this is stupid its just something that cross my mind
Despite the fire talents in the destruction tree, I agree with you. Not having a fire-damage curse or any other dots beyond immolate feels exceedingly unwarlocky.
The lack of a fire-based curse in particular rubs me the wrong way for some reason (despite the fact that our current curse design means I rarely get to cast CoD.)
What, Curse of Elements doesn't affect fire now?
Affliction is the DoT tree. If you're in deep destruction, you're also in Demonology. Why would you be casting DoTs at that level of gear/progression? If I cast even just Corruption on Void Reaver I lose DPS and gain too much threat.
One more thing about the leo tanking... I haven't yet to get there but i was wandering if the spellstone can remove the staking of the debuff he dose on you? I am sorry if this is stupid its just something that cross my mind
No, spellstones only work on things regular dispel magic would work on.
The only way to get rid of the debuffs is to either die, or to have a paladin divine intervention on you (which is what we use so we don't have to stop dps waiting for my debuffs to wear off.)
I believe she meant something like a Curse of Fiery Agony or Curse of Fiery Doom. Which would be cast in a destruction spec if the COS/R/E was done by other locks.
Quite honestly, we wanted warlocks to take a larger hit to their hit points when lifetapping in PvP. While in PvP, this means they will take a bigger hit to their health, in PvE it will have smaller impact (and actually can be gamed for an improvement via higher intelligence and lower stamina).
"Quite honestly, we wanted warlocks to take a larger hit to their hit points when lifetapping in PvP. While in PvP, this means they will take a bigger hit to their health, in PvE it will have smaller impact (and actually can be gamed for an improvement via higher intelligence and lower stamina)."
Because we all know how prominent intellect is on our *PVE* set pieces. As well as talents, and buffs etc.
Demonic Embrace now increases the health cost of lifetap by 3/6/9/12/15% (not exactly, but close)
Fel Stamina too. I don't know if I'm going to skip these talents in 2.4, but it illustrates they built warlocks to be a high-stam class that cares little for the size of their mana pool *because* they can convert health to mana. This change is a pretty significant detour from that vision. Stacking stam only requires us to be healed more, making us a healing burden or requiring a sPriest with VE. Now, the more int you have and the less stam over the requirements of the fight, the better you are. This is totally counter-intuitive. Stam is now bad?
There has to be a better way to accomplish this PvP fix, without killing my PvE lifetaps. As a warlock my health is way above my mana, thats the way the gear was built. We don't gem for stam (except to activate CSD with Glowing purples) or int, so "Gaming" this isn't really an "advantage".
Dauntless: "Incapable of being intimidated or discouraged; fearless"
so how is this going to effecting lock tanking gear. Do they plan on changing some itemization around or tweaking fights? I love having around 7.5k mana in my tank gear and only getting 16% of that back when I'll have 13k health and dropping 16% of that per tap. Nice job blizz
Stam isn't bad, stacking stam and forgetting int is. You already lose more health per life-tap the more spell damage you get, so it's not like it's anything new to have a higher healing burden as you gear up. The change seems to be in line with the increased emphasis on int for PvE, given how regen is changing to take int into account.
On any fight where you lifetap 7 or more times (100/16 = 6.25) you now have net negative HP from stacking STA. Fort is now a debuff for 'locks. As well as the above-mentioned talents.
Stam = bad
Dauntless: "Incapable of being intimidated or discouraged; fearless"
On any fight where you lifetap 7 or more times (100/16 = 6.25) you now have net negative HP from stacking STA. Fort is now a debuff for 'locks. As well as the above-mentioned talents.
Stam = bad
Not quite. If you lifetap once with fort once without fort, you'll still end up with more hp remaining after the tap if you have fort. You just lose more health from a tap the more health you have to lose.
I agree that the new mechanic is wonky at best, but it's not like you're going to want to raid with 6k hp.
Not quite. If you lifetap once with fort once without fort, you'll still end up with more hp remaining after the tap if you have fort. You just lose more health from a tap the more health you have to lose.
I agree that the new mechanic is wonky at best, but it's not like you're going to want to raid with 6k hp.
I'm not entirely sure if I'm getting your point, but the only fight where I have tapped once is Shade of Akama after Akama begins to tank it (provided that I was at or near full mana).
Not quite. If you lifetap once with fort once without fort, you'll still end up with more hp remaining after the tap if you have fort. You just lose more health from a tap the more health you have to lose.
I agree that the new mechanic is wonky at best, but it's not like you're going to want to raid with 6k hp.
Name one PvE encounter where you're only going to find yourself tapping once. It's just frustrating also because the only way to increase the amount we get from life tap is based off of int, which was just above spirit in stats warlocks looked for, and not spell damage anymore. If Life tap took away more HP than Mana, that'd be fine too, because HP is so much easier to gain back than mana, it SHOULD cost us more HP than mana returned. As long as it wasn't reversing our itemization. That is why the warlock community has completely exploded, this transcends the majority of nerfs in the game. Not saying it's the most crippling nerf in the game, in fact, in it's current state, it's not really that crippling at all, warlocks without healers don't tap like mad in PvP anyway, so the classes we still eat, we'll still eat, and the classes we still get destroyed by, will still destroy us. It doesn't accomplish much but destroy our itemization.
EDIT: Tacitus, in my first sentence, I was gonna add (Except Akama), but decided against it because I know I find myself tapping more than once...haha.
02/25/08, 12:23 AM
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