Trickykid

Improved immolate is almost twice as much DPS increase per talent point as Cataclysm for fire destro. You needn't be eager to see, you can simply test it out on the spreadsheet (as noted by a poster above).

 

Wingalock

Thanks, silly me, I have run the spreedsheet, and it works out that even with purely spamming Incinerate (without Immolate), the DPS will be higher than spamming SB (considering a raid setup consists of 3 Shadow Destruction Warlocks + 2 Shadow Priests), however it only increases by a small margin.

 

Arelenda

We're talking about 40/0/21 vs 41/0/20, right?

Because if you're not: you're horribly wrong.

These days, even at Karazhan levels, regular 0/21/40 seems to win by a landslide. Epic badge loot raised the bar a lot.

 

• Astrylian

Rawr Beta 12.1 posted!

DOWNLOAD: https://www.codeplex.com/Release/Pro...eleaseId=11483

Beta 12.1:
- Fixed a bug that would cause "Input string not in correct format" errors when Rawr was run on copies of Windows for a region where a period is not the decimal separator (ie european countries where it would be "1,23" instead of "1.23").
- For proxies that filter by user-agent, the user-agent used by Rawr is now customizable in the proxy options.
- Config settings (like recent files) are now user specific.
- Fix for occasionally not loading icons immediately even though a network connection is available. Also fixed an error when there was no network connection.
- Rawr.Mage: Added new AB-AM cycle and new AB cycles with Frostbolt/Scorch filler, added a fix for the item budget comparison, added scrolling on the options screen, added Drums of Battle stacking,
- Rawr.Warlock: Fixed issue when altering spell cycle

 

galzohar

Remember that the spreadsheet doesn't take into account the DPS the raid gains from your improved shadowbolt into your own DPS. It only adds raid DPS increases from ISB in the "next stat" section. If you chance your talents/spells/gear and look at your DPS difference you also have to go to the raid ISB tab and see how much ISB uptime changed and calculate [(the difference )* 0.2 * (shadow dps of the rest of your raid)] and add/substract that to/from your DPS. Then consider what happens if you raid with 3 shadow priests, or only 2 warlocks. And make one of the warlocks affliction if you really want a realistic progressing raid.

 

Madlax

Throwing another topic in here: Has anyone done theorycrafts on SW gear and what to grab yet?
I came up with chardev.org - A World of Warcraft character planner v.2.beta before RAWR, and rawr also says me that these items are quite on spot in overall max dps.
Only thing I'm really not happy about is the awful lack of +hit on all that gear, even had to socket 2 items with hit/dam gems to get 200.
(Also includes being JC/Enchanter - for the neck)

As for the when-to-pick-what:
shadowpriest.com :: View topic - TEMP 2.4 Best Raiding Gear Available
Shoulders, Gloves, Wand are best on slot for Spriest as of current.
Chest - if you´re tailor pick Sunfire, else it´s a cat fight against spriest there as well.
Pros:
Leggings of Calamity we´d only have to fight mages for.

Anyone with good thoughts on this?

 

Krazen

New Twin Eredars neck has 15 hit. Switch to Sunfire Robe and use this neckpiece, then ungem hit.

 

Madlax

That would mean 200hit, 25haste, 25crit, 36dam vs 205 hit, 32haste, 39dam
25 crit vs 2hit, 7haste and 3dam
That's a pretty fair trade with Sunfire still.

 

atvrider450r

Anyone use maxdps.com? And the ss from this post? Can i get some opinions on them on which is more preferred?

 

Ammanas

I messed around with it some, its pretty nice for a quick item comparison but the spreadsheet is certainly still the best option. Theres no place to imput haste rating or screw around with other options (raid debuffs, ISB uptime, set bonuses, trinket procs) .. it tells me the Illidan healing cloak is best in slot if I'm hit capped so I'd say it values haste a little too highly. Warcrafter is a similar site that does a lot of the same things and is a little more fleshed out.

 

Pidge

I might be wrong, but isn't 1 hit rating worth a lot more than 1 +spell damage? As such, wouldn't Great Lionseyes and Veiled Pyrestones be the highest DPS value items in a gem slot? Personally, I think the amount of hit on the Sunwell gear is fantastic because of this. It allows you to tailor your Hit requirements a lot more easily and spend your "gem budget" more efficiently.

 

Flamingcloud

Well whats better, using hit gems and having haste/dmg gear.. or using haste gems and having hit/dmg gear? It doesn't really matter where you get the hit from, but you must get it from somewhere.

It is clearly better to get your hit from mana attuned band, translucent spellthread(or twins neck), skull of guldan, and loop of forged power than it is to use hit gems. Using these 4 items as well as best in slot in every slot (sunflare/chronicle for wep) and inspiring presence from draenei you get 208hit.

Granted if you can't get guldan(the rest shouldn't be a problem), and you are horde and don't get a free 1%(also assuming no ele shaman).. You will need to socket a great deal of hit gems. as you will be around 33 hit below the cap in ideal gear set. Which might be the best time to get the +50hit staff instead of going the 1h route, as you would lose another 17 from not having chronicle meaning you would be exactly 50hit short.. So basically horde warlocks without guldan or elemental shamans should get the staff =P


When gemming your first priority will be to make it the rest of the way to the hit cap, using the gem that matches the socket color, because socket bonus will always makeup the tiny difference between using veiled pyrestone or great lionseye, or using reckless pyrestone and quick lionseye. Blue sockets are never worth matching unless you are trying to meet a meta requirement, and even then none of the new gear has a blue socket so ideally you will socket one item that has two sockets with two blue, or 2 items that have 1 socket with a blue each, costing you a grand total of +4dmg in socket bonuses.

 

Cronjob

I was talking about pure affliction vs Destro aka 0/21/40... The OP was asking a different question.

 

galzohar

High level items often have a lot of hit on top of a lot of other stats, to the point where in many slots you will be able to gain very little damage by swapping items (examples: belt of blasting, hyjal trash cloak), and in some slots not be able to gain anything at all (examples: T6, skull of gul'dan). Since gemming for hit with those kind of items would cause a very small damage gain, it's not worth the big damage loss of 6 dmg lost per 5 hit gained, as you'll only gain very few damage for large amounts of hit lost. If you're under the cap somehow (generally at low gear levels) then gemming for hit becomes very worthwhile, as being under the cap makes 5 hit > 6 damage. However if you have access to epic gems you usually have high enough gear level to not be able to benefit from so much hit rating, hence spell damage socketing.

 

Fireye

*** moved to rawr thread ***

 

Trickykid

There's a thread just for that program. I imagine it's best placed there.

 

Cronjob

Wait isnt the Illidian healing cloak the best in slot assuming hit cap which if you are at at the point where you can get it you should be.

Being hit cap haste > dam > crit

 

Flamingcloud

According to the spreadsheet both at my gear level, and at end of sunwell gear level, 12dmg > 6dmg 5haste > 10haste.. Of course the difference is low enough that socketing bonuses are worth seeking out.

As far as best hit-capped cloak.. I really doubt 32 haste > 19dmg 25crit. All the spreadsheets/programs I have seen have council cloak way ahead of the haste cloak.. and that healing cloak isn't that much better than the haste cloak.

 

Cronjob

Maybe I'm reading the spreadsheet incorrectly but I dont see the Shroud of he Highborne as being terribly lower if at all. I see a value of 56.69 vs 58.33. Point for point (from a destro POV) haste returns more DPM than spell damage. Currently I'm at 5% haste, 22.37 Crit and 17.64% hit. For me haste added the biggest boost.

 

Sataniss

In 2.4 I'm probably going to be atleast trying out fire in raids. My main question is how should/does gemming change in 2.4? I've messed with the spreadsheet a bit but I'm still just getting used to it. Most have said that in 2.4 you should start going for the socket bonus's on your gear.

Obviously for reds I'm going to stick with the +12 dmg gem but what (in your opinion/testing) is the best yellow gem? The pure haste gem or dmg/haste? Also, would you bother putting in blue gems to obtain the socket bonus or just skip it all together?

Lastly, since we're adding in more yellow gems it's going to make using the 1/2 cast meta requirements hard to meet. What other PvE meta's would people suggest?

 

Flamingcloud

I said the haste cloak was alot lower, I don't even see the healing cloak on any of the spreadsheets/programs, but I would imagine it falls in the middle of council, and shadowcaster's drape. For haste to be better than +dmg, haste basically needs to be > +1.20dmg(you can look at this at the bottom of the dps tab), this will only happen at low levels of haste since haste slowly has diminshing returns. With sunwell everyone is going to get enough haste that they will see the same gem patterns.

Best yellow is of course the two +hit gems, assuming you are already hit capped, you should go for reckless pyrestone(6dmg 5haste). The 1/2 cast meta is bad, get chaotic skyfire diamond... destro is the only way to go... And you could put reckless pyrestone in every slot instead of any crimson spinel, if you are having a hard time getting reds.

 

Sataniss

I have the +hit covered from gear so I don't have to gem for it luckily. Thanks for the advice on the meta choice which also opens up my gem choices further. Lastly, assuming you have equal opportunity to both red/orange gems, would you fully outfit yourself in red gems (ignoring socket bonus's) or red/orange gems to obtain the socket bonus's? I guess it may fall into some level of gear dependancy so I'm sitting in half SSC/TK, half MH/BT gear

 

Cronjob

I just want to make sure we are talking about the same items

[Shroud of the Highborne] item value 56.69

vs

[Cloak of the Illidari Council] item value 58.33


Maxdps.com shows the Shroud of the highborne slightly higher(reverse of spreadsheet) than Cloak of the illidari Council. You can punch in the stats into the spreadsheet v2.2 and you'll see the Council cloak is not far ahead of the healing cloak.

I guess it depends on what spreadsheet or website you want to go by but I havent seen any that has the healing cloak significantly lower than anything else and in fact is best in slot on some...

BTW [Shadowcaster's Drape] shows an item value of 51.73 #3 best cloak atm (which Maxdps.com also shows)


EDIT: Btw Flamingcloud whats the cast time of your bolts? Looks like you have about 9% haste rating which is hot!!

 

Lerker

Quick question in weapon choice for 0/21/40 lock(shadow) -

I'm currently using Wub's from dragonhawk in ZA. I recently picked up the Blade of Twisted Visions from zul'jin, and have it banked for 2.4

According to leulier's spreadsheet even with the 2.4 haste changes, the DPS increase from the blade and wub's is less than 1. Is this correct? Assuming the hit from wub's is un needed. I personally would have thought the blade would be more than 1 DPS increase.

 

Krazen

Take the socket bonus on all sunwell items. The difference between 10 haste, 5 haste/6 dmg, and 12 dmg is small enough to go for any +dmg bonus, IMO.