cladnin

I suppose that helps, seems like something that could be useful to be listed however. However, I see nothing mentioned about a spreadsheet on any of the first lines before he goes into spec detail, smart ass.

 

Vlar

The numbers I posted above your post are from the spreadsheet.

If it is such a huge difference because of ISB uptime, why is the uptime effected by less than 1%?

 

Thanahtos

First, use the spreadsheet, second, it's UA, it was proved multiple times throughout this thread...

edit: Name-calling will get you no where Cladnin, there's another thread in the Class Mechanics forums called "another Warlock DPS Spreadsheet" or something like that. Use that spreadsheet, it will answer all your questions that were asked at least twenty times before.

 

Vlar

It is in the first post.

 

cladnin

Obviously the warlock data is a bit confused, now isn't it? Kind of getting a mixed review here. The spreadsheet said ruin over UA.

 

Thanahtos

You gave us no indication on your gear level. Seeing as you're a mage, I would assume it's for someone else in your guild. Also, going Ruin removes the possibility of an Improved Imp, which is one of the main reasons for an Affliction Warlock. (Along with SE and Malediction)

edit: If you want a warlock to do the optimum DPS, he should spec DS/S&F. If you want support, he should go UA Affliction, with 5/5 SE, 3/3 Malediction, and 3/3 Improved Imp.

 

dsl1

Difference between Fire and Shadow Destro at high gear levels is too minimal to switch.

Shadow scales better with damage and sunwell gear supports that.

 

Vlar

Link: Hit/Crit Comparison from the the Spreadsheet

Edit: to make link more noticeable.

 

Derezzed

I love the spreadsheet (it will be taking away a lot of valuable work time) but what I don't get is that, no matter what I seem to do, or what variations on gear I select, Felguard is always the most DPS.

I've changed from FSW/Spellstrike to T4 and T5 and T6, but the 2 Felguard specs are always the highest dps.

Am I doing something wrong? I will admit I need to play around with it a bit more, but no matter how much gear I change around, Demo/Destro is always number one. If I have 30% crit or 5% crit, it doesn't matter.

oh yeah, and fire locks are higher DPS than shadow as well. I am confused.

 

Vlar

As noted earlier, Fire is higher DPS, but a loss of ISB.

 

Flamingcloud

I plug incin spec for my gear(changing cloak/wep enchant obv and adding a few veiled pyrestone to makeup for cloak hit) and get a 30dps gain(and this is assuming magic 100% immolate uptime), lose 8% ISB uptime, lose nether protection, lose soul leech. Draw conclusions from that as you will..

 

Deathwing

You're wondering why a spec that takes the most amount of support and attention is #1 dps, and yet still can't be used on all boss fights?

 

galzohar

I don't understand what you were expecting, ISB from 1% crit to be significantly higher than 1%? Sorry man but you're not looking at it properly.

The so called "less than 1% ISB uptime increase" is more than enough raid DPS increase to make 1% crit better than 1% hit. Just look at the final numbers after inserting all data to see what gives you more if you can't just look at the bigger picture and see that 1% hit is barely more personal DPS than 1% crit but noticeably less raid DPS from ISB uptime.

Remember even 0.5% ISB increase is 0.1% DPS per shadow user which is kind of equivalent to 0.5% DPS increase to a single shadow user, which is slightly less than 1/2 of the benefit of 1% hit. Add that to the "almost as good as 1% hit" DPS you get from 1% crit and you get clearly more total raid DPS from 1% crit than 1% hit.

But again, hit rating is so much cheaper even with crit being in the area of 1.5X (more or less... but not even close to high enough margin of error to make it lower than 1) better than hit, hit is still about 1.7X cheaper due to the rating system (itemization cost) and thus better to stack until cap.

Just because you get a small number doesn't mean it's insignificant. A near-zero number multiplied by a near-infinity number can give both a near-zero number, a finite number or even an infinite number. Where it falls depends on how close to zero VS how close to infinity. In the case of crit and ISB the tiny increase of ISB uptime is multiplying multiple players' DPS and the result, while not anything huge, quite far from zero as well and it's definitely big enough that you cannot neglect it and get good theorycrafting results.

 

Vlar

Again...

Note where the Totals for hit % + ISP DPS change are greater than the crit % + ISB DPS change

Edit: this is from the spreadsheet.

 

Arelenda

Updated the compendium with some patch things. Let me know if you find any mistakes or if something could be cleared up. Next update will include gems, they're on the "to-do" list.

 

Bolche

I think you are mixing 2 differents numbers.
For exemple if we look at the first table (10% crit, 14% hit) :
16.18 is the dps you gain from 1% hit, while 0.742 is the dps the raid gains from 1 hit rating.

Warlock DPS Spreadsheet

 

Vlar

Ok, I just went back and manually changed the % in the spreadsheet too see the differnce in actual raid dps.

Base (10% Crit/14% Hit): ISB DPS: 6049.3
11% Crit: 6065.5
15% Hit: 6065.3

personal DPS gained of 1% hit over 1% crit previously posted: 1.91

Base (15% Crit/14% Hit): ISB DPS: 6130.4
16% Crit: 6146.7
15% Hit: 6147.3

personal DPS gained of 1% hit over 1% crit previously posted: 2.64


Base (20% Crit/14% Hit): ISB DPS: 6211.9
21% Crit: 6228.3
15% Hit: 6229.7

personal DPS gained of 1% hit over 1% crit previously posted: 3.38

What am I looking at wrong on the spreadsheet? By switching it manually % for % I am still showing 1% Hit > 1% Crit

Edit: Bolche, I am getting these numbers from Cell L11 of the Raid ISB Tab

 

Trickykid

That cell doesn't take into account ISB for anyone except you.

Set Raid TNS to 1 to include ISB changes in your "Next Stat" Table. Compare cell C40*12.6 to C41*22.08.

This conversation has gone on a really long time now considering the size of the variables by raid. There won't be a useful generic answer to this so I'm not sure how productive this is -- everyone should be using the values for their own raid group (with a unique mix of stats per shadow DPSer and number of Locks v SPs) and go from there.

 

Vlar

So where on the Spreadsheet does it give you the Raid DPS increase by ISB?

The cells you listed give the amount of damage that the TNS is worth, not the change in Raid ISB DPS. People are stating that the spreadsheet shows that 1% Crit is better than 1% Hit because the DPS increase from the increased ISB uptime, so how do they see that?

 

Trickykid

In the next stat section, which includes the increased DPS from 1 point in each of the stats via your own damage and raid damage from ISB.

 

Vlar

Are you sure? That looks more like a comparison to adding 1 damage.

Edit, Grammar

 

Trickykid

Same thing... X/Y = (X/Z)/(Y/Z).

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, setting Raid TNS = 1 includes the increase in DPS via ISB.

 

Vlar

With that, wouldn't you have to then compare it to the non ISB values to get the difference (the actual increase by ISB)?

 

Trickykid

If you wanted JUST the increase from ISB, yes. But the issue was total value to the raid (personal and ISB-contributions) per stat point. That's exactly what 'The Next Stat' section does. You may be trying to make this more difficult than it is.

 

Vlar

Ok, I might understand it now:

1% Hit provides a personal DPS increase with a > .73% Decrease in ISB uptime.

A 20% increase in damage .73% of the time is the only difference in Raid DPS between crit and hit, making it (.2*.0073) .146% of the Raid's Shadow DPS.

So if the Raid's Shadow DPS is 5000, the ISB dps increase from 1% crit over 1% hit is 7.3.

This would then be added to the personal DPS 1% crit and compared to the personal DPS of 1% hit.

Am I on the correct path at least?

Edit: Clarification.