On Kalecgos & Brutallus:
We recently have downed Kalecgos and will try Brutallus soon. We have one warlock in 4p T6, despite farming BT/MH for months (bad luck on conqueror / having lots of priests+paladins / high attrition rate). We'll see how that goes.
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We only have 1 lock in 4pT6 and we downed him last night, we have horrid luck with Conq tokens, random loot, nearly everyone else in the raid has 4p T6 however, so it’s definitely doable
We frequently raid with 3-4 locks. And since 2.4’s buff to fire locks making it, from what I have seen, a viable raid spec (this is based on our best geared lock being able to output 1800-2000 dps as fire). I am wondering if it would make more sense to run 1 high crit shadow destro lock, to keep ISB up for SP’s and the affliction lock. And have the other locks spec into fire.
Basically the question is would 3 shadow destro locks keep ISB up more than 1 high crit shadow destro lock? We are going to be working on Brut, we are undergeared and would like to squeeze every bit of dps we can out of our locks. While providing the max raid benefit.
We frequently raid with 3-4 locks. And since 2.4’s buff to fire locks making it, from what I have seen, a viable raid spec (this is based on our best geared lock being able to output 1800-2000 dps as fire). I am wondering if it would make more sense to run 1 high crit shadow destro lock, to keep ISB up for SP’s and the affliction lock. And have the other locks spec into fire.
Basically the question is would 3 shadow destro locks keep ISB up more than 1 high crit shadow destro lock? We are going to be working on Brut, we are undergeared and would like to squeeze every bit of dps we can out of our locks. While providing the max raid benefit.
Maybe you could read the thread and the spreadsheet thread..
With the advent of 2.4 I am wondering what trinkets I should use. I tried to use the spreadsheet, but these trinkets aren't in there, and since they have procs/use I am not sure how I could make them fit on "Custom"
I am Aff spec (43/0/18)
I was using Icon and Living Ruby Serpent
After Heroic MgT I switched Serpent to Timbal's Focusing Crystal
Since I am a JC I can make the Crimson Serpent now. I know the stats are high, so on those "heavy dmg" fights, this will always be better, but compared to the Icon and Focusing Crystal how do they match up? With the extra int (larger mana pool before LT) as well as the lowered 2 min "use" am no longer sure which of the three is best to use on average.
With 3 dest 1 aff and 1-2 SP you are running alot of shadow I would go with all Shadow Dest locks. When you turn 2 of the locks into fire you start gimping 3-4 other peoples DPS while adding little to their own.
Brutalis is not just DPS, the heals are stretched also. With shadow you can have Nether Protection and Soul Leach, these help heal the locks and lower Meteor Slash stacks (jury still out on burn use, but I haven't seen burn proc it yet). While not game breaking talents they do help.
Even though I belive Shadow is the better choice, it is still just a minor upgrade.
When I tested Shattered Sun Pendant of the Acumen it got 3 procs in 2 minutes, thought I think the actual rate would be abit below that due to the internal cool down.. The Scryer version is horrible, but the Aldor version should be the equivalent of a +60-65dmg neck I believe. Which I suppose makes it good if your neck is worse than kael/souls neck.
Not to be a pain in the ass, but is there any theorycrafting where I can see that this neck is as good as 60-65+dmg
I have a hard time believing that the aldor proc is worth 23-28+ dmg because spellstrike is only worth about 10-12 and seems to be about the same thing. (shattered sun proc is 20 spell damage more but proc is still only 10 seconds only allowing about 3 sb casts in unless you have a decent amount of haste and if you have that gear you probably wont be wearing this neck =P) The proc rate does seem to be higher than that of spellstrike, but if you only tested it one time then your results can be severely skewed.
I realize beggars cant be choosers but unless the claims are supported in math, it's going to be hard to accept your opinion.
Well unless the proc rate is dramatically different than the proc rate on scryer version.. I got 3 procs in 2 minutes(I believe the neck is 15% chance 45sec cooldown).. so adjusting for internal cooldown, I think around 1.2 proc per minute is to be expected.. Thus a 20% uptime, or +24dmg value. I am not gonna do a 30 minute proc test since I am not aldor. 10 Second proc should get atleast 4finished 1 started bolts.. Possibly 5finished 1 started.
Last edited by Flamingcloud : 04/14/08 at 1:58 PM.
I wanted to post this in the warlock thread as I figured you guys would provide the most information.
One of our warlocks(Ishmael ) wants to help understand how he can improve his overall damage done on Anetheron. I am not sure what to tell him, and I am hoping there might be some tricks that you could help out with.
Nether Protection - Spells - World of Warcraft You ARE immune to all fire and shadow spells, its just not the kind of immunity that clears debuffs. Though i agree that NP is near useless on that encounter.
I'm almost certain that I had Nether Prot proc off Fear on Archimonde and it cleared the fear. There's a few other times I noticed a debuff come off when Nether Prot proc'd and I'd like to say one of the fights was Illidan but im not entirely sure.
I'm almost certain that I had Nether Prot proc off Fear on Archimonde and it cleared the fear. There's a few other times I noticed a debuff come off when Nether Prot proc'd and I'd like to say one of the fights was Illidan but im not entirely sure.
It doesn't. You probably confused it with a tremor totem tic.
It can however make you immune to doomfire for those 4 seconds, which is pretty good considering it is the only way you can actually die on that fight without screwing up horribly.
It can proc on grip of the legion, making you immune to the first dot tic as well (it will NOT remove it).
Archimonde is basically one of the fights where NP is actually really good.
I wanted to post this in the warlock thread as I figured you guys would provide the most information.
One of our warlocks(Ishmael ) wants to help understand how he can improve his overall damage done on Anetheron. I am not sure what to tell him, and I am hoping there might be some tricks that you could help out with.
There are multiple things that he could do and that the warlocks in general could also do to improve both raid and personal DPS.
First, he could drop Corruption from his spell rotation, and while I cannot see his armory at the moment, I would also venture to say that he could drop Immolate as well. The time spent casting Corruption, for example, would be better spent casting a Shadow Bolt.
Secondly, all of the warlocks need to use utility curses: Curse of Shadows, Curse of Elements, and Curse of Recklessness. It looks like they might be doing that, but it's hard for me to discern whether the damage from their Agony and Doom is coming from Infernals or Anetheron.
Thirdly, DPS time. The longer it takes for him to move between Anetheron and Infernals, the less DPS and the less damage he's going to be doing over the course of the fight. For example, being in such a position that one doesn't have to move at all, merely turn, in order to DPS the infernal is much more beneficial for one's DPS and damage than if he has to run over a hill and and across the road to get it.
Finally, sometimes he might just get unlucky, and there's really nothing one can do about that. I see he took a Sleep that fight. Sometimes one won't take a single Sleep the entire fight, and sometimes he might take two or three. That's just how the RNG works.
Secondly, all of the warlocks need to use utility curses: Curse of Shadows, Curse of Elements, and Curse of Recklessness. It looks like they might be doing that, but it's hard for me to discern whether the damage from their Agony and Doom is coming from Infernals or Anetheron.
I agree with you on the other points, but it may be worth noting they only have 1 mage in this WWS, in which case CoD will most likely out-dps the benefit the lone mage would recieve from CoE (if hes even fire/frost)
Well unless the proc rate is dramatically different than the proc rate on scryer version.. I got 3 procs in 2 minutes(I believe the neck is 15% chance 45sec cooldown).. so adjusting for internal cooldown, I think around 1.2 proc per minute is to be expected.. Thus a 20% uptime, or +24dmg value. I am not gonna do a 30 minute proc test since I am not aldor. 10 Second proc should get atleast 4finished 1 started bolts.. Possibly 5finished 1 started.
Wouldnt 1.2 ppm be a 13.88%(repeating of course) uptime? If this is the case it is about equal to 16.66%(repeating of course) +damage. Am I way off on this one?
Second, the fact that you only tested it once skews the results unless anyone can confirm a 15% chance on a 45 second cooldown.
EDIT:
I'm almost certain that I had Nether Prot proc off Fear on Archimonde and it cleared the fear. There's a few other times I noticed a debuff come off when Nether Prot proc'd and I'd like to say one of the fights was Illidan but im not entirely sure.
nether proteciton will proc off any shadow/fire spell but it does NOT remove any debuffs. Go into Bot and get slept by a physician (for whatever reason the spell is shadow or fire) the anesthesia will proc nether protection but you will still be slept for the full duration or until dispelled.
Wouldnt 1.2 ppm be a 13.88%(repeating of course) uptime? If this is the case it is about equal to 16.66%(repeating of course) +damage. Am I way off on this one?
Second, the fact that you only tested it once skews the results unless anyone can confirm a 15% chance on a 45 second cooldown.
EDIT:
nether proteciton will proc off any shadow/fire spell but it does NOT remove any debuffs. Go into Bot and get slept by a physician (for whatever reason the spell is shadow or fire) the anesthesia will proc nether protection but you will still be slept for the full duration or until dispelled.
No.. 1.2 ppm.. would be 12 seconds of uptime per 60.. 12/60 = 20%.. No clue where you are getting your numbers from.
I wanted to post this in the warlock thread as I figured you guys would provide the most information.
One of our warlocks(Ishmael ) wants to help understand how he can improve his overall damage done on Anetheron. I am not sure what to tell him, and I am hoping there might be some tricks that you could help out with.
You can view the buffs and debuffs placed on anetheron in WWS and see that CoS and CoR werent used on him. Those would help out his dps and the raids.
Cant really check out armory right now, but as was posted above remove immolate and coruption from rotations. Since he wouldnt use immolate anymore emberstorm is worthless spec out if it and conflag, and put points into cataclysm and soul leech.
Judging from the damage though i would venture to say t5 level gear? if that true warlocks become simple, cap out hit, 25% crit. Curse up, spam bolt and dont pull agro, pot and tap as needed.
Forgot, for setting up what locks do what curse, have the 2 with the lowest shadow damage do CoR and CoS, the other 2 do CoDs.
Mmm sorry, quick question, is there a cloak in sunwell plateau? Haven't see any yet and my guild is running on dkp so I m just wondering if I should pick up illidari's cloak ( using ZA haste one atm), or just wait for a possible up in sunwell
I haven't seen one yet, but keep in mind M'uru's loot table is completely unknown at the moment. The end game gear set I've designed either uses the IC cloak or the Hyjal trash one, depending on spec.
Forgot, for setting up what locks do what curse, have the 2 with the lowest shadow damage do CoR and CoS, the other 2 do CoDs.
If there are is than one Fire Mage, you will have more raid dps with CoE over Doom.
For Fire vs Shadow and assuming all Tier 6 gear, the best setup is one Shadow (this Lock should have a lot of crit) and the rest Fire.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
If you're running with an affliction warlock he should always be on 13% CoS duty, obviously. You should never really have more than 1 affliction warlock in a good raid so the rest are obviously worst 2 locks CoR+CoE (no CoE if only 2 locks or only 1 mage) and rest do CoD. Anything else is simply a DPS loss for the raid. And CoR's damage increase is fully miticated by 5/5 improved demoralizing shout which your raid should have (as in, a boss with 5/5 demo on him hits same (or about the same) as one with CoR+5/5 demo).
Where does haste play into itemization for warlocks, is stacking haste in T6 or equivalent gear more important than stacking damage?
It is all in the spreadsheet.. you will see that the more damage you have the better haste is.. and the more haste you have the worse haste is. Depending on your current gear setup haste might be better than dmg, but I think more often dmg will be better.
My rough conclusion is that dmg > haste for people venturing into sunwell gear.. Meaning crimson spinel in red, and reckless pyrestone in yellow. Ofcourse you should use the spreadsheet to figure out what the turning point is for you.. In my current gear for example (factoring in full raid buffs and heroism/drums brutallus setup) I have 1haste = 1.01dmg.. but if you remove heroism/drums I have 1haste = 1.19dmg... Remove zhar'doom for tempest/chronicle, and Ring of Ancient Knowledge for Band of the Eternal Sage and I get 1 haste = 1.28dmg.
More so than anything else.. it is the more haste you have the worse it gets, and the further into sunwell you get the more haste you will have, so gemming +10haste should be considering to be something you are only doing temporarily.
I have been doing some initial testing on Fire lock since the change in 2.4 and here is my thoughts so far.
Would like some more educated and objective input from you guys.
- Personal DPS seems to be more or less the same.. Might even be abit higher fire fire especially on long fights.
- Seems more mana efficient, that leads to less lifetapping and gives a higher substainded DPS.
- Shadow is still more usefull to the raid. Since Fire dont bring anything to the table besides good DPS. We usually raid with 2 shadow destro and me as fire destro so its not a problem. I would not accept all locks to go fire.
- Fire is defiantly more interactive and for me at least more fun to play.
- Shadow buff from Spriest is better than scorch buff from mages due to the fact that it is so much faster to apply. Still no big difference on bossfights (that really matter). When you have 2x Fire Mages.
- Really nice for thrash, with fast casts, and deflag is a great finisher. Its more usefull than shadowburn cause it has longer range.
- You loose some survivability as fire, since it is hard to spec with nether protection and soul leech.
- Fire is also great for more mobile encounters since incinerate is faster to cast and immolate has a DOT effect. (I know immolate is a minor dps upgrade for shadow as well but imo it was never really worth the debuff slot then.
Please anyone that have tested this seriously give me some of your thoughts.
I thought about going fire myself as well, and but was really hesitant to after theorycrafting it and concluding basically everything you just confirmed by trying it out yourself
There's a Twin eredar kill video from a fire-warlock perspective out there, but I think he ended up getting owned on damage by the shadow-destro locks. ;o
If the Meteor Slash is fire damage, the infernal should be immune. I'm assuming that means his portion of the damage is essentially mitigated.
He would be immune, but at any rate, he essentially would not be hit by any meteor slashes regardless seeing how pets always adjust to attack from the rear since a few patches ago. I've used an infernal quite a few times on Brutallus, and it has been used on our recent kill, and all those occasions they came out unscratched.
I have also gone 40/21 on the kill with a SL'ed Succubus out, the DPS was very solid and the succubus simply never took any damage that I had noticed with a SP in the group. Brutallus is a pet friendly encounter.
04/14/08, 10:08 AM
random loot, nearly everyone else in the raid has 4p T6 however, so it’s definitely doable
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