turturin

My understanding is the buff procs per tick....

so over the course of UA or corruption (for example) with the talent maxed at 5/5:

+5% +10% +15% +20% +25% +30% = 105/6 = 17.5% average increase per tick, which is obviously less than 20%.

Is my understanding of the new mechanic incorrect?

 

turturin

The only time I felt my debuffing made a significant difference in TBC raiding is those few pulls in hyjal with multiple banshees/necromancers, where CoT spam really does reduce the tank dmg and healing requirements significantly.

While I would have liked to have had "debilitating debuffs" per the class description, from a raiding standpoint it doesn't feel like that was ever the case. Shaman, in fact, had a lot more interesting set of buff choices (do i use WoA or Tranq air) and strategic placement options for totems in TBC....In fact, i think often the good shaman/bad shaman PvE debate comes down ability/skill with totems. Pressing CoE once every 5 minutes is hardly as critical or difficult.

 

Akj

Yes its just a flat 5% per tick like PSGarak posted above.

 

Alefica

That's basically how I feel as well. Its relatively easy to keep a rhythm going on live, but adding haunt to the mix sort of messes things up. Of course, it doesn't help that not a single Dot timer mod I have works. DoTimer, Quartz, Ellipsis...none work. If anyone could point me toward a working PTR dot mod, it would be greatly appreciated!

From my testing so far though, affliction's dps has gone up. I'm using this as my current spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

Obviously, this is currently the best for me since the dummies health cannot go below 100%, so properly seeing if Death's Embrace is worth more than other talents is hard to know. Something to note, (this might be a bug) the ISB charges affect dot's that are already on the target. So it acts as it does on live, only you're the only one who benefits.

 

PSGarak

New build up on mmo-champion. Change list is still MIA, looking through the talent tree now.
Affliction:
Improved Corruption change in (20% damage)
Improved Fear now puts on a 5-second 30% snare at the end of fear, instead of previous effect
FEL CONCENTRATION DOWN TO 3 POINTS
Amp Curse just GCD reduction now, 0.5s
Improved Felhunter Shadow Bit mana return is now 8% of max mana on Shadow Bite
Malediction also increases your spell damage by 1%
Death's Embrace is now Shadow Damage by 10% for targets below 35%.

Demonology:
Improved Health Funnel now makes the demon take 30% less damage while HF is being channeled (? o O)
Improved Succubus makes Seduction instant
Master Conjuror just says it increases their effect by 30%, I'll check the spell list in a second...
Metamorphisis changes are in: 600% AC, 40% damage, 50% snare duration, -6% chance to be critically hit by melee (!) plus new spells

Destruction:
Ruin/Devestate changes are in (switches places and number of talent points required)
Improved Immolate now 3/3 for 30%
Shadow & Flame now includes Chaos Bolt!
Backdraft: At 1/3, conflag reduces the cast time of the next three spells by 30%. Further ranks are identical.
Chaos Bolt: Now 2.5 base (2.0 with bane), and "causes the Warlock's mind to turn Chaotic." (?)

Aha, found the firestone/spellstone changes: They are now weapon imbues. You apply them to your weapon, like wizard oil.
Spellstone: While applied to target weapon it increases damage dealt by periodic spells by 1% and spell haste rating by 60. Lasts for 1 hour. (rank 5 level 78)
Firestone: While applied to target weapon it increases damage dealt by direct spells by 1% and spell critical strike rating by 35. Lasts for 1 hour. (rank 5 level 66, which is the same level as spellstone rank 4)
Sexy. Considering recent Affliction changes the crit and haste ratings should probably be swapped between the two, but anyways... sexy.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Cpt. Hammer

Improved voidwalker has been renamed Demonic Brutality and now also increases the attack power bonus on your Felguard's Demonic Frenzy effect by 3% (presumably to 8% a stack up to 80%).

Also, glyph changes from wotlkwiki:

* Glyph of Unending Breath - Increases the swim speed of targets affected by your Unending Breath spell by 20%.
* Glyph of Curse of Exhaustion - Increases the range of your Curse of Exhaustion spell by 5 yards.
* Glyph of Enslave Demon - Reduces the cast time of your Enslave Demon spell by 50%.
* Glyph of Felguard - Increases the Felguard's total attack power by 10%. Down from 20%.
* Glyph of Imp - Increaes the damage done by your Imp's Firebolt spell by 10%.
* Glyph of Felhunter - Increases the critical strike chance of your Felhunter's Shadow Bite ability by 6%.
* Glyph of Demonic Armor - Removed
* Glyph of Inferno - Removed
* Glyph of Fel Armor - Removed

Exciting stuff!

 

PsyBomb

Am I the only lunatic who is considering shifting to 61/0/10 now? There is an awful lot of stuff running around the Affliction tree that I suddenly REALLY want to get, and since I'm getting my crit benefit on a different set of spells now...

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

this build is basically 60/0/10 +1, the one I decided to drop back into Ruin. Doesn't really matter. The build is rough, but does anyone else see where I'm going with it?

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

 

Pyralissa

I like the Destruction changes. The better scaling is a much better solution than just improving the base damage. Plus whatever the "chaotic" mind implies. I wonder what's going to be the better "splash" tree though. I was thinking of a 11/3/57 build. Amplify Curse will increase the damage per cast time of CoA nicely (as will Improved Agony). And hopefully improved corruption and Molten Core synergy will keep Corruption competitive for damage per cast as well.

That Unending Breath glyph is also cool.

 

PSGarak

Hrm. Death Coil isn't in mmo-champ's spell list anymore. Let's assume that's an oversight for the moment...

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

PyroTEK85

Whoa, is this right? The talent calc tooltip says permanent demon form? Thats friggin huge.

 

novasphere

I'd also like to add that "Improved Voidwalker" has been renamed to "Demonic Brutality", and now also increases the Felguard's Demonic Frenzy effect by 3%. I can only hope that it stacks up with each application of the buff, for a total of a 30% increased effect at 10 stacks (or 80% total increased AP at 10 stacks).

Edit: slight grammar

 

Solrael

From wowhead...

Chaotic Mind - Spell - World of Warcraft

Chaotic Mind Magic

Damage done by your Immolate has a 8% chance to cause your next Soul Fire spell to be instant cast, cost no mana and consume no soul shard. Lasts 8 sec.

 

BeerBelly

Anyone done any thinking about a level 70 build for affliction raiding with the new build in place? The tree seems bloated at the deeper levels, thus causing us to save a lot of points.

My thoughts about some talents:

- Improved felhunter: kinda need at least 1 point in this if we are to raid with our doggy and use it for DP as well
- Shadow mastery: a must
- Eradication: seems like a good talent on paper, but the low proc chance and an internal cooldown, makes it not really worth the points in my opinion
- Contagion: unfortunately needed to get UA (this should be removed or scaled down to 3 points)
- Dark pact: a good talent to take; with the current build it also got a little buff
- Imp. HoT: not needed
- Malediction: with the current change it also gives 3% spell damage for 3 points; at 1500 dmg that comes out as 45 damage, which is more (point for point) than Demonic Aegis gives; taken
- Death's Embrace: shadow spells do 12% (predicted the 9% is a bug) more damage when the mob is under 35% health; that comes out as 4.2% dmg increase over the whole fight; better than Contagion in my opinion since it increases damage by all shadow spells; sadly we're trying to save points so we won't be taking this
- UA: needed
- Pandemic: needed
- Everlasting affliction: needed
- Haunt: needed (btw, is there still a mechanic in place where the mob targets you when Haunt heals? If there is it might cause problems with certain bosses)

10 points in destruction go into Bane and Imp. SB

Build comes out like this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

What do you think?

 

Darian_TruBlade

Not entirely alone, it's certainly fun but difficult (especially without a timer, the Blizzard UI is woefully inadequate for this and that's coming from someone who tries to keep as spartan/default a UI as possible).

I might be instinctually wrong but I tent to prioritize Haunt over everything else. It might be my Warrior instincts, but I feel compelled to cast it the moment it's off its CD.

After an initial reaction of having to reattach my jaw, it struck me in the middle of my merrymaking that this buff is potentially not as good as it initially seems.

At first glance it's shockingly amazing, Nightfall meets PoM Pyro, a dream for both PvE and PvP. Assuming that's 8% per tick on Immolate, you're looking at ~30% chance per Immolate (assuming we cut off the last tick with Conflagrate). If there are multiple targets to DoT, you could imagine chain procs for meting out injustice.

Then I remembered Soul Fire has a 1 minute CD. Which would ruin the whole thing. So I looked up Soul Fire on WoWHead praying the pointless CD had been removed. Soul Fire Rank 6

And there was much rejoicing.

EDIT:

Looking at the buff a second time, the chaotic thinking only lasts 8 seconds. As a result, the best you can hope for is 3 ticks of Immolate per cast or ~22% proc per Immolate. 20% is probably the safest number given human error.

 

PSGarak

You randomly shoot gigantic fireballs out your ass. Considering Nightfall is widely regarded as the Best Talent Evar by anyone after playing with it for about thirty minutes, I would say that's a decent theme for a 51-point talent. The proc rate isn't huge, but it's higher than Nightfall, at an amount that more than makes up for the downtime, and comes with an equally ginormous fireball attached at the other end. The proc rate makes me feel like it's not quite the absolute power of a 51-point talent... but the gameplay style, and the theme, make it feel like a 51-point talent. Now we need to crunch numbers on whether it's better to pop soulfire immediately or wait to see if Molten Core procs.

PvP implications: Instant soulfire procs, with Pyroclasm. It turns out the new Chaos Bolt is the second-best thing that happened to pyroclasm, after conflag got added to it.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Fulgurite

And now *I'm* the one reattaching my jaw after reading your post. No cooldown on Soul fire? That's amazing! Destro has such a ridiculous amount of instant cast damage for PVP these days. Death Coil, Shadowburn, Shadowfury, Shadowflame, Conflag, Soul Fire procs, Backlash procs, and of course Backdraft for -30% casting time.

Anyone else see all this (+11 point Soul Link) as making Destro finally PVP viable? And of course the pushback changes, so you'll actually be able to cast other stuff too whenever you need.

And I'm drooling at all the talent changes Garak is reporting. I'm guessing this is going to kill Demon Sac again (and therefore the new Master Conjuror) for Destro locks, since the 8% chance for Soul Fires, plus the Imp's crits, will almost certainly be worth more than 10% damage. (Not to mention Chaos Bolt now has the same coefficient as Incinerate, but with that massive base damage as well.)

Everyone's going towards fire, but I wonder, could you make a shadowbolt + chaos bolt + backdraft spec? If you're not using shadow dots, this would be the only way to get molten core procs, and the Imp boosts our crit chance significantly, leading to an almost certain 100% ISB uptime. That's 15% damage that incinerate won't have.

It also means you don't waste a backdraft charge on reapplying immolate immediately (well unless losing the 8% chance for soul fires is just THAT GOOD for the few seconds it would take to cast 3 shadowbolts).

Something like this.....
0/13/58
(That calculator isn't updated for some reason, even though I followed the link from "updated 8962 talent calc". 2 points in Imp. Immo would be dropped for cast time on Imp's Firebolt.)

 

PSGarak

Wheeee...
Less unexpected than Freezing Trap Shot for hunters, but still a bit out of left field. Personal opinion: If you don't consider that a buff, you rolled the wrong class.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Scrufola

This is great for 5 mans. It would be even better if you could re-seduce like you can re-sheep.

Unfortunately, we are now about the only class which has to spec for 5 man CC (for humanoids which is all that counts). The other classes got theirs for free (Hex, Roots and the increased duration Retri Stun). And they removed the CoR/Fear combo.

And Chaos Bolt went from 19% to 7% base mana!

 

Shai

- Health Funnel now has a 45 yard range.
- Improved Health Funnel (Tier 2) now reduces the damage your demon takes while under the Health Funnel effect by 15/30% in addition to its previous effect.

This will make soloing elites even more trivial for demo.

 

• Maels

You really want Imp CoA (Curse of Doom is terrible as Affliction), Death's Embrace and 5/5 Ruin.
What's up with 2/2 Frailty?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

 

BeerBelly

Maels, what do you think about my lvl 70 aff build posted on the previous page (last post)? Did you think about a lvl 70 build yet?

 

Kabale

I would still spec into Malediction now that it has a benefit outside of using CoE.

As for lvl70 build, I'm tempted to stay destruction with these changes. It really feels like the beginning of TBC where Affliction > Destruction until you get the pre-requisites (at least 20% crit, hit cap, decent +dmg). In 3.0 and lvl70 we'll still have these figures but they'll decline rapidly on the path to 80 making Affliction much more attractive for not only levelling but early-mid raiding instances too. Affliction will potentially have more longevity than it in TBC due to the amount of scaling now present in the tree.

I'm thinking of something like this,

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

 

Sephirah

My 56/0/15 build:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

 

Selmarix

Master Conjurer is still very weak if it only increases the effect of the stones by 30% for 2 talent points.
That means only like +0.33% damage (that only applies to a part of the damage you cause) and around 18 rating. Far from the +1% damage per talent point rule of thumb.

 

Medu

All trees are bloated but it does seem very hard to get a good pve build in affliction. I was looking through the tree to see why this is and i came to the same conclusion that you did. The dependance for UA, and thus pandemic, on Contagion needs to go. It's a minor PvE buff, expect for SoC where it's a solid increase, that is eclipsed by tier 1 talents!