WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion - Page 112

Scrufola · 09/18/08, 7:54 AM

I calculated the best spell rotation for destro with these changes and with my calculations

Conflagrate SBx3 Immolate Incineratex1

still seams to be the best rotation dps wise.

You can get this rotation out in 10.5s where every rotation with Chaos Bolt takes at least 14s (12s CD + 2s cast) or 13.5s if you cast the Bolt backdrafted.

The effect of backdraft (more often) and ISB still seam to be superior to Chaos Bolt and the crit bonus of Fire and Brimstone.

I did not add the effect of Chaotic Mind into the calculation. I assume these 8% will be splitted between the initial damage and the ticks afterwards (nightfall is splitted between the ticks, or did they change that?) and with 8% each 15s that should result in only 28% proc chance per minute or 1 proc per 4 minutes.

Fire still has a hard time recovering the 15% lost because of the removal of the old scorch and the new crit scorch favors Shadow Bolt.

I calculated it with the level 70 spells with 1300 spell damage, 25% crit, 17% hit, and 0% haste. More crit or more spell damage favors Shadow Bolt.

What I wanted to say with that is, that it does make more sense to create the rotation around using backdraft as soon as possible (every 10s) and not around Chaos Bolt.

I think Blizzard wants us to use something like:

Immolate, Incinerate*, Chaos Bolt, Conflagrate

The 14/13.5s Gap between 2 Chaos Bolts would ensure that we always conflagrate during the last 5s and get the 25% additional crit bonus from Fire & Brimstone. They would have to nerv backdraft which could or would nerv Conflagrate again.

I think an internal cooldown of 13s on backdraft could solve that issue.

Besides that. I would love to finally see a rotation using fire and shadow spells. Especially since Demonic Sacrifice, Curse of Shadow and the old scorch are things of the past.

Sephirah · 09/18/08, 8:08 AM

Originally Posted by supplicium

Why no dark pact?

With the change to maladiction, it seems like it will be a must for affliction locks 3% dmg increase is HUGE, not sure if there's any way to avoid not putting points there.

While I can test it only on PTR (I'm not in beta), I'm assuming that:
- Life Tap affected by spirit
- Siphon Life + Haunt healing me
a Rank 8 Life Tap (Life Tap - Spell - World of Warcraft) would have been better than a Rank 5 Dark Pact (Dark Pact - Spell - World of Warcraft)
Expecially with Improved Life Tap.

The point in Improved Fel Hunter it's for its own use.

PsyBomb · 09/18/08, 1:29 PM

Dug up our T7 set bonuses.

2: Your Corruption and Immolate periodic effects have a chance to increase the critical strike chance of your next Shadow Bolt or Incinerate by 10%.
4: Casting Life Tap grants you an additional 300 spirit for 10 seconds.

The 2-piece is decent, depending on its duration and proc rate. For Affliction and Demonology, it'll help keep ISB up. for Destro, well, it just adds a little damage in the cycles on occasion.

The 4-piece lost a lot of shine when spirit regen got dropped from Fel Armor, but it's still 90 (117 talented) bonus spellpower while active, plus an additional 900 to any lifetap done within the duration. Though technically sustainable, I do not relish Lifetapping every 10 seconds, so it'll most likely act as an extremely short-cooldown trinket and make it advantageous to wait to go to extremely low mana, then double-Tap (or triple in particularly high Mana pools).

dcpwns · 09/18/08, 2:24 PM

It still seems to me and my dps test have proven it that not using coflag and getting backdraft is better.When i was just spamming incin and chaos bolt while refreshing corrup/immo I always yielded more dmg then working backdraft and coflag into the rotation.

Fulgurite · 09/18/08, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by PsyBomb

Dug up our T7 set bonuses.

2: Your Corruption and Immolate periodic effects have a chance to increase the critical strike chance of your next Shadow Bolt or Incinerate by 10%.
4: Casting Life Tap grants you an additional 300 spirit for 10 seconds.

The 2-piece is decent, depending on its duration and proc rate. For Affliction and Demonology, it'll help keep ISB up. for Destro, well, it just adds a little damage in the cycles on occasion.

The 4-piece lost a lot of shine when spirit regen got dropped from Fel Armor, but it's still 90 (117 talented) bonus spellpower while active, plus an additional 900 to any lifetap done within the duration. Though technically sustainable, I do not relish Lifetapping every 10 seconds, so it'll most likely act as an extremely short-cooldown trinket and make it advantageous to wait to go to extremely low mana, then double-Tap (or triple in particularly high Mana pools).

Even without spirit regen on Fel Armor, having that 100% proc chance seems well worth it.

It depends on our mana consumption really. I was needing a lifetap about every 5 shadowbolts in Beta last time I checked, which is 12.5 seconds with 0 haste. If you are using the better DPM fire, and have better spirit or something (my Blue PVP gear had almost 0), perhaps a lifetap every 20 seconds would be more likely. That's 40 average spell power, or if you want to double the gap and lifetap twice, you get a large amount of bonus mana, like you said already.

All in all, not a horrible set bonus.

And the 2 piece seems a pretty standard DPS increase. Could be much better if we end up using Corruption in Destro rotations. I wonder though, does an Immolate tick increase the damage of your Shadowbolt by 10%? Or just incinerate?

PsyBomb · 09/18/08, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by Fulgurite

Even without spirit regen on Fel Armor, having that 100% proc chance seems well worth it.

It depends on our mana consumption really. I was needing a lifetap about every 5 shadowbolts in Beta last time I checked, which is 12.5 seconds with 0 haste. If you are using the better DPM fire, and have better spirit or something (my Blue PVP gear had almost 0), perhaps a lifetap every 20 seconds would be more likely. That's 40 average spell power, or if you want to double the gap and lifetap twice, you get a large amount of bonus mana, like you said already.

All in all, not a horrible set bonus.

And the 2 piece seems a pretty standard DPS increase. Could be much better if we end up using Corruption in Destro rotations. I wonder though, does an Immolate tick increase the damage of your Shadowbolt by 10%? Or just incinerate?

Forgot about Corruption in Destro rotations, since it's instant-cast at base now that would seem likely for Molten Core. Getting the occasional +crit proc out of the set bonus would be a nice addition to it. From the wording of the set bonus, both will affect both (reference our T4 bonus, which had to be worded as 2 set bonuses to separate the procs). While this will not be nearly enough to convince Affliction to cast Immolate, it will be plenty to ensure corruption enters Destro rotations while the set bonus lasts.

EDIT: I was thinking for a second that, between Eradication and the 6-7% haste that is ridiculously easy to get on our raid gear, lifetap every 10 seconds would be feasable... until I remembered that the second you did so the second lifetap would be for 900 (1080 talented) mana more than it should have been. While it won't make you instantly max out, the rotation won't go for more than about 2-4 cycles before lifetap becomes a serious waste of time.

Montegomery · 09/18/08, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by Scrufola

I calculated the best spell rotation for destro with these changes and with my calculations

Conflagrate SBx3 Immolate Incineratex1

still seams to be the best rotation dps wise.

You can get this rotation out in 10.5s where every rotation with Chaos Bolt takes at least 14s (12s CD + 2s cast) or 13.5s if you cast the Bolt backdrafted.

The effect of backdraft (more often) and ISB still seam to be superior to Chaos Bolt and the crit bonus of Fire and Brimstone.

I did not add the effect of Chaotic Mind into the calculation. I assume these 8% will be splitted between the initial damage and the ticks afterwards (nightfall is splitted between the ticks, or did they change that?) and with 8% each 15s that should result in only 28% proc chance per minute or 1 proc per 4 minutes.

Fire still has a hard time recovering the 15% lost because of the removal of the old scorch and the new crit scorch favors Shadow Bolt.

I calculated it with the level 70 spells with 1300 spell damage, 25% crit, 17% hit, and 0% haste. More crit or more spell damage favors Shadow Bolt.

What I wanted to say with that is, that it does make more sense to create the rotation around using backdraft as soon as possible (every 10s) and not around Chaos Bolt.

I think Blizzard wants us to use something like:

Immolate, Incinerate*, Chaos Bolt, Conflagrate

The 14/13.5s Gap between 2 Chaos Bolts would ensure that we always conflagrate during the last 5s and get the 25% additional crit bonus from Fire & Brimstone. They would have to nerv backdraft which could or would nerv Conflagrate again.

I think an internal cooldown of 13s on backdraft could solve that issue.

Besides that. I would love to finally see a rotation using fire and shadow spells. Especially since Demonic Sacrifice, Curse of Shadow and the old scorch are things of the past.

I ran your rotation versus Conflagrate > Immolate > Chaos Bolt > Incinerate x5 with level 80 spells and 2k SP, factoring in all crit raid buffs. I assumed that one in every five cycles an Incinerate would be replaced with a Soul Fire, and that 5.4% of all Shadow Bolt casts would be without ISB*.

With all of that accounted for, the difference between the two was .5% in favor of the pure fire cycle. That's not particularly notable, but in order to pick up ISB one has to sacrifice 3 talent points. In the builds I looked at, the obvious candidates are Demonic Power and 1 point from one of the utility spells (Shadowfury most likely). The the utility is purely flavor, but that's a 25% reduction in your Imp's DPS which, assuming that your Imp is 10% of your DPS with the talent, is a drop of 2.5% total DPS. This is compounded by Empowered Imp. 2 points from Backlash would be a better choice, but at the same time is still at the most conservative a 1.5% drop in DPS, totalling a 2% difference.

2% is small enough that a person could go either way to taste. If Blizzard truly wants to use fire spells to the exclusion of shadow, the obvious course of action is to buff Incinerate. The most obvious candidate for doing so is actually Aftermath. I'm fairly certain all Fire Destruction builds would love to have an obvious DPS reason for taking that over 2 points in Molten Core or ISB.

*ISB is difficult to calculate in this case because we aren't just spamming Shadow Bolt, it's being done in sets of 3 with carry over into the next set. Additionally, the previous set will have eaten some number of charges that may affect whether the buff is available for all casts in the current set. This gets complicated quickly.

We can assume for any given crit chance X% that we have an 1-(1-X%)^2 chance of one of our last two casts being a crit, and thus that the ISB buff will be able to carry through the entire next set. For the 43% crit used in our calculations that's a 67.5% chance. X% * (1-X%)^2 is the remaining chance that our first cast crit but the subsequent two didn't (~14% in this case) leaving an 18.5% chance of no buff at all.

In the case where we only crit our first cast on the previous set, we still have 2 charges left to burn through. As such, we have a 67.5% chance of refreshing the buff before we reach the third cast. Thus, only 32.5% of such situations result in a cast without ISB, which is 4.5% of all situations or 1.5% of all casts (dividing by 3 per situation).

In the case of no buff at all, we are guaranteed one cast without ISB. 57% of casts coming next will also not have ISB, but only 32.5% of the last in the set will also be without ISB. This works out to 11.7% of all situations or 3.9% of all casts.

Thus 5.4% of all Shadow Bolt casts will lack the ISB buff.

Soulzar · 09/18/08, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by PsyBomb

Dug up our T7 set bonuses.

2: Your Corruption and Immolate periodic effects have a chance to increase the critical strike chance of your next Shadow Bolt or Incinerate by 10%.

The 2-piece is decent, depending on its duration and proc rate. For Affliction and Demonology, it'll help keep ISB up. for Destro, well, it just adds a little damage in the cycles on occasion.

So a chance at a chance to crit is the bonus? Probably much weaker than it sounds as it could proc 20 times and you still get nothing in return if you don't happen to crit. Like you mentioned however how effective that bonus crit will become greatly depends on its proc rate in the first place. Seeing this set bonus however has prompted me to post something I have been concerned with since first seeing the current form of Fire and Brimstone.

Do we have any test results on how Fire and Brimstone apply the 15% to Immolate? The coefficients for the Direct Damage portions are different than the DoT effect. 15% of your spell damage being applied to a 20% coefficient is hardly a huge buff for 5 points on a 45-50 point talent, even at 65% for the DoT coefficient. Shadow and Flame is a superior 5 point coefficient talent located lower in the tree, effecting a spamable spell. Can anybody explain how F&B is calculated out?

With the recent change for Chaos Bolt to apply Chaotic Mind buff, losing the final tick of Immolate is now more of a hit than just being a DPCT decrease. Given the duration of Chaotic mind and the fact that its always going to be in line with Chaos Bolts CD, its highly likely that the buff would never be up during immos final tick anyways, though our rotations are not set in stone yet so I am not going to conclude that just yet.

In my eyes, Fire and Brimstone is a very flawed talent, or that is, a talent to make a tree design work in PvE. I see the crit modifier on conflag and it simply translates into "25% chance to offset the lost dmg from consuming immolate." If they added a 20% chance per point to not consume Immo it would bring the talent more in line with what I would expect for its location in the tree, and make the rest of the trees design flow a lot better.

The only flaws I see in destro is as they further buff Immolate as the staple spell, they further increase the "lost dmg" by popping conflag. There are several way I feel they could allow us to talent to avoid the lost dmg final tick paradox, though I'm trying to abstain from posting to much "if i was blizz, I'd design us this way" comments.

PSGarak · 09/18/08, 2:57 PM

Originally Posted by Scrufola

I did not add the effect of Chaotic Mind into the calculation. I assume these 8% will be splitted between the initial damage and the ticks afterwards (nightfall is splitted between the ticks, or did they change that?) and with 8% each 15s that should result in only 28% proc chance per minute or 1 proc per 4 minutes.

Nightfall has always been 4% chance per tick. The wording on Chaotic Mind is not identical, but similar to imply that the 8% chance is per time it deals damage.
Also, the past participle of "split" is "split." Sorry, but it was making me twitch.

Fulgurite · 09/18/08, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade

With all of that accounted for, the difference between the two was .5% in favor of the pure fire cycle. That's not particularly notable, but in order to pick up ISB one has to sacrifice 3 talent points. In the builds I looked at, the obvious candidates are Demonic Power and 1 point from one of the utility spells (Shadowfury most likely). The the utility is purely flavor, but that's a 25% reduction in your Imp's DPS which, assuming that your Imp is 10% of your DPS with the talent, is a drop of 2.5% total DPS. This is compounded by Empowered Imp. 2 points from Backlash would be a better choice, but at the same time is still at the most conservative a 1.5% drop in DPS, totalling a 2% difference.

2% is small enough that a person could go either way to taste. If Blizzard truly wants to use fire spells to the exclusion of shadow, the obvious course of action is to buff Incinerate. The most obvious candidate for doing so is actually Aftermath. I'm fairly certain all Fire Destruction builds would love to have an obvious DPS reason for taking that over 2 points in Molten Core or ISB.

What I did to accommodate ISB was drop 2 points in F&B in addition to the utility spells. Losing a bit of damage contribution to immolate (considering Soulzar's speculation that it does very little) doesn't seem as big a deal to me as 2% crit or a slower casting Imp Firebolt (which also affects crit). And of course the conflag crit chance.

My question is, why stop casting Shadowbolts? You calculated that only 5.7% of the time ISB wouldn't be up for that Shadowboltx3 rotation. Is a non-backdrafted Shadowbolt that much worse than an Incinerate, even with ISB up 95% of the time?

Oh, and also in your ISB calculations. I don't see how you'd account for this, but your Imp will be firebolting during those Shadowbolts. If he crits, that's 63% chance for Shadowbolt to crit rather than 43%. It seems like this would decrease the chance that you wouldn't have an ISB proc.

Debuff · 09/18/08, 4:25 PM

The Chaotic Mind effect was removed from Chaos Bolt already :/

source

We're taking Chaotic Mind off of Chaos Bolt, was just something we were trying out. The ability now does pretty juicy damage after the changes (some might not even be in your build), so it really doesn't warrant the need for the tacked on buff (that is somewhat RNGish as you point out).

Akj · 09/18/08, 4:27 PM

Chaotic Mind on the chopping block

We're taking Chaotic Mind off of Chaos Bolt, was just something we were trying out. The ability now does pretty juicy damage after the changes (some might not even be in your build), so it really doesn't warrant the need for the tacked on buff (that is somewhat RNGish as you point out).

Source

Dimeron · 09/18/08, 4:47 PM

Originally Posted by Debuff

The Chaotic Mind effect was removed from Chaos Bolt already :/

source

With chaotic mind effect removed, I think the best rotation reverts back to the tried and true one.

Conflag->Sbx3->immolate->Incinerate*

In the above rotation, CB can be used to replace a SB or incinerate whenever its CD is up.

Conflag at 10s and CB at 12 seconds sure make things awkward.

Montegomery · 09/18/08, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by Fulgurite

What I did to accommodate ISB was drop 2 points in F&B in addition to the utility spells. Losing a bit of damage contribution to immolate (considering Soulzar's speculation that it does very little) doesn't seem as big a deal to me as 2% crit or a slower casting Imp Firebolt (which also affects crit). And of course the conflag crit chance.

My question is, why stop casting Shadowbolts? You calculated that only 5.7% of the time ISB wouldn't be up for that Shadowboltx3 rotation. Is a non-backdrafted Shadowbolt that much worse than an Incinerate, even with ISB up 95% of the time?

Oh, and also in your ISB calculations. I don't see how you'd account for this, but your Imp will be firebolting during those Shadowbolts. If he crits, that's 63% chance for Shadowbolt to crit rather than 43%. It seems like this would decrease the chance that you wouldn't have an ISB proc.

I was responding directly to the poster I quoted, who stopped casting Shadow Bolts after Backdraft dropped. You are correct that the Imp would change matters significantly. I assume he cast Incinerate over Shadowbolt simply because doing so makes for a very tight rotation allowing for Backdraft as soon as Conflagrate was off its CD. I'd assume that with some haste the same would be possible with Shadow Bolt.

That said, I'm extremely disappointed to hear that Chaotic Mind is being axed. That reverses the outcome of my comparison.

Which begs the question, is Backdraft worth it? Is the DPS increase of going deep enough into Destruction to get Backdraft and Chaos Bolt worthwhile compared to sticking to Shadow Bolt/Corruption and diving deeper into Affliction? If Backdraft is stronger than spending our talents elsewhere then Destruction may be on track for a Shadow/Fire hybrid damage spec, otherwise there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to go deep in the tree.

All of this, however, may be flawed. The new instant Corruption may be a viable spell to cast even for a Fire Destro spec, making points in Molten Core actually worthwhile. I doubt, given that Corruption will benefit from ISB, that this would swing things in favor of Fire Destro.

Medu · 09/18/08, 6:31 PM

Originally Posted by Debuff

The Chaotic Mind effect was removed from Chaos Bolt already :/

source

That's too funny. It hardly procced anyway.

(PTR testing)
Haunt damage seems to have been nerfed/fixed. It had a coeff of ~75% yesterday but now seems to be the normal 1 of 43% for a 1.5s cast with damage coming down from 1600 to 1100. Crit still seems to be bugged- 1-2%.
I did a back to back test of the new affliction/destro. Affliction came in at 1200 and destro at just under 950. A lot of this can be explained by my gear which has no haste and low crit-14% and the lack of spirit is a lifetap killer. As this was on the PTR i was specced 56/0/5 so i didn't have ISB/ruin so there is some nice talents left when going from 70->80 as affliction, something that destro doesn't seem to have.

PSGarak · 09/18/08, 6:36 PM

While said, to be fair, Chaos Bolt was probably get slightly retarded in the amount of firepower (...) it could output. Chaotic Mind would be appreciated as its own talent though, replacing F&B or backdraft. If I weren't such an affliction fanatic I would easily drop 5 points in it. But yeah, too much burst in PvP, especially if you line up CM with a Backlash proc, and pyroclasm gives you time to drop a CB.

Dimeron · 09/18/08, 7:21 PM

Okay, did some basic calculations.

Assuming 2800 spell power, 48% critical rating. No other modifiers. Assuming emberstorm, bane, and shadow and flames.

Incinerate will deal ~5447 damage per cast at 2.25s, or 2421 dps
Chaos bolt will deal ~6080 damage per cast at 2.0s, or 3040.3 dps.

Since chaos bolt has 12 second cooldown, that means cb will bring extra 613.3/12 = 51.1 dps.

IMO not really worth it for PvE.

Scrufola · 09/18/08, 7:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dimeron

Since chaos bolt has 12 second cooldown, that means cb will bring extra 613.3/12 = 51.1 dps.

You can only cast Chaos Bolt every (12s + cast time) because the cool down starts after the spell is casted and you cannot start casting a spell which is on cool down.

Waylin · 09/18/08, 7:35 PM

I was wondering if I could get some clarification regarding the synergy between Fel Synergy and Metamorphosis from someone in the Beta or PTR.

2 points of Fel Synergy gives one's demon an additional 10% of one's intelligence, stamina and armor.
One of metamorphosis' abilities is to increase one's armor by 600%.

Do these two abilities work together, increasing one's demon's armor by 10% of one's improved armor rating, or is it merely 10% of one's base armor?

Thank you in advance.

I would log into the PTR and test this myself, but I am still patiently waiting for my character transfer to come through.

kysta · 09/18/08, 7:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dimeron

Since chaos bolt has 12 second cooldown, that means cb will bring extra 613.3/12 = 51.1 dps.

IMO not really worth it for PvE.

Unless you are pulling over 5000 dps, that is still better than a 1% dps gain for 1 talent point, can you do better with the point spent somewhere else?

nom · 09/18/08, 7:39 PM

Originally Posted by Dimeron

Okay, did some basic calculations.

Assuming 2800 spell power, 48% critical rating. No other modifiers. Assuming emberstorm, bane, and shadow and flames.

Incinerate will deal ~5447 damage per cast at 2.25s, or 2421 dps
Chaos bolt will deal ~6080 damage per cast at 2.0s, or 3040.3 dps.

Since chaos bolt has 12 second cooldown, that means cb will bring extra 613.3/12 = 51.1 dps.

IMO not really worth it for PvE.

I believe this should be (613.3 dps * 2 sec cast) / (12 sec cd + 2 sec cast)= 87.6 dps.
In terms of percentages (much cleaner this way): (26% * 2 sec cast) / (12 sec cd + 2 sec cast) = 3.7% dps

====
Mana cost considerations:

Again assuming all you cast are incins and chaos bolt. Since chaos bolt is half the mana cost of incin and has roughly the same cast time, it will decrease mana usage by about

0.5 spells / (6 spells per chaos bolt cd)

To be more precise, this decreases time spent lifetapping (base ~ 15%), giving extra dps time of about 15% * .5/(6*(1-15%)) = 1.5%.

So: very, very roughly, going by the spell info in the above post, chaos bolt increases dps by (3.7%, 5.2%) if you spend (0%, 15%) of your time lifetapping.

arch · 09/18/08, 7:52 PM

Was chaotic mind superhotfixed or something? I got the buff out of nowhere just a minute ago.

EDIT: nevermind, realized it's a part of chaos bolt, doh.

Medu · 09/18/08, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by PSGarak

While said, to be fair, Chaos Bolt was probably get slightly retarded in the amount of firepower (...) it could output. Chaotic Mind would be appreciated as its own talent though, replacing F&B or backdraft. If I weren't such an affliction fanatic I would easily drop 5 points in it. But yeah, too much burst in PvP, especially if you line up CM with a Backlash proc, and pyroclasm gives you time to drop a CB.

You do know that fire mages get an instant pyroblast after 2 crits with scorch/fireball/fireblast or a 15% chance to get an instant fireball after casting a frostbolt? Chaos bolt really is a rubbish talent that will have little to no use in PvP-ignoring absorption effects is pretty much pointless as your next spell will be eaten by it anyway! As for PvE dps, come on it's incinerate with a small bit more base damage, woohoo!

Dimeron · 09/18/08, 8:40 PM

Originally Posted by nom

I believe this should be (613.3 dps * 2 sec cast) / (12 sec cd + 2 sec cast)= 87.6 dps.
In terms of percentages (much cleaner this way): (26% * 2 sec cast) / (12 sec cd + 2 sec cast) = 3.7% dps

If mana isn't infinite:

Again assuming all you cast are incins and chaos bolt:
Since chaos bolt is half the mana cost of incin and has roughly the same cast time, it will decrease mana usage by about

0.5 spells / (6 spells per chaos bolt cd)

To be more precise, this decreases time spent lifetapping (base ~ 15%), to give you an extra dps time of about 15%*.5/(6*(1-15%)) = 1.5%.

So very, very roughly, using the base numbers in the above post, chaos bolt increases dps by (3.7%, 5.2%) if you spend (0%, 15%) of your time lifetapping.

Hm... didn't realize the mana cost has been cut by almost half. And your calculation is correct, I forgot to factor in the cast time.

I guess even assuming one cannot perfectly time the chaos bolt cooldown it is still a fairly major increase.

I think this destruction build is worth a try when 3.0 is released.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

edit: Given the high amount of base damage, when the spell power is low, it appears that dps increase from chaos bolt is even greater.

Montegomery · 09/18/08, 8:55 PM

Originally Posted by Dimeron

Hm... didn't realize the mana cost has been cut by almost half. And your calculation is correct, I forgot to factor in the cast time.

I guess even assuming one cannot perfectly time the chaos bolt cooldown it is still a fairly major increase.

I think this destruction build is worth a try when 3.0 is released:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Personally I'd take Shadowfury over Shadowburn. It costs more mana, but does more damage, stuns, and doesn't cost a soul shard.

Depending on the raids you're doing, Nether Protection might be worth sacrificing Molten Core. The duration on MC is extremely short, and there's a good chance you're going to proc it at times which net zero benefit.