Just had a 1950 DPS 2-3 minute parse, to continue my above post. Same situation as above, but 3/3 in Backdraft. 342k damage (that's 1982 DPS over the course of 172 seconds - dunno how long it actually was. Recount is really bad for counting time because the Fel Armor ticks count time separately.)
Also, these tests both included prolific Life Taps. I kept myself up with pure life taps and Imp. SL, though (contrary to my earlier tests) my health was slowly going down. I estimate that with no pots and no heals, I would be dead/oom in about 4-5 minutes.
Imp got off 71 Bolts before I stopped him (with like 300 mana left). 142 seconds in casting, Recount is calculating in terms of 172 seconds for some reason, 245 DPS, 42206 damage total. (So for the DPS numbers I'm unsure. I want to say it was 142 seconds because of the Imp, but maybe he was lagging?)
Only 1 soul fire proc. It might be skewed, but I had like 33% shadowbolt crit, and only 5% Imp crit. (50% CB crit, average 36% crit between the 2 spells. 34% TOTAL average crit including Immolate, 32% including conflag.
Paper doll crit ws 21% + 5% from Devastation, so 26%.
Looks to me like the sample size is way too small. Gonna need either a LOT more runs or someone to buff my Imp so he doesn't go oom.
I think I was mistaken in the 1600 before, it wasn't counting Imp. DPS. So the first parse (with 3.5% less crit from gear and 1/3 backdraft) was 1600+250 dps or 1850 dps, second was 1980+250, or 2230 dps.
All in all, doesn't seem to bad. I'm going to test some parses without Conflag/Backdraft.
One weird thing that happened, though. In between these tests, I swapped out my hit gear, went from like 4.5% hit to 1-2%. I didn't miss any spells (because of Cataclysm), but my Imp missed 3-4 bolts (a massive ~4% miss change, because he had 0 misses the first parse). Either it was really lucky the first time and unlucky the second, or the Imp's hit chance is based on your +hit, and Cataclysm doesn't count (Imp is a Demo spell after all). All tests were against the same level 80 target dummy, so 4% naked miss chance.
(I will edit this with % contribution breakdowns when the Beta servers come back up, they're down for now.)
Ruin doesn't work this build, even if you put the 5 points back in, that's probably a huge part of why destruction's dps is lacking.
I don't think it can beat 56/0/15 though. I did 3.2k dps on patchwerk in a 10 man raid (ebon plague + lust available) as affliction. 5/5 non-broken Ruin would've upped it by 78 dps, for a total of 3272.
I'm going to try destro and demo for comparison soon. I'll make a detailed post explaining gear, raid comp etc...
I don't even know what chaos means as a game mechanic. But I do know CB was critting for ~10% more than Incinerate in a 7/3/51 Immolate/Corruption/Incinerate/Chaos Bolt rotation for me on PTR. Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. It seems pretty clear they want it to do more damage than any alternative nuke so they will tweak the numbers to make sure it stays that way. Perhaps they will do something fun with the chaos thingy to give the spell a more unique feeling.
* Haunt (Rank 1) damage reduced from 645-754 to 405-473."
Well you can obtain rank 2 of Haunt at level 70, so it doesn't "really" matter. The weird thing before this change was that Rank 2 of Haunt had less base damage than Rank 1. I'd assume that you would have used Rank 2 anyway due to scaling. (lower Rank should get penalty?)
There's 4 ranks of Haunt. Rank 1 was almost exactly the same as Rank 4 for some reason.
These changes were in last build, my Shadowflame and Haunt were hitting less than earlier builds (Shadowflame was less than tooltip).
Now that they've updated the spell descriptions, it makes sense.
The Shadowflame nerf is disappointing, the damage is very low for an instant AE, especially at that level. I'm concerned the coefficient will be horrible like similiar spells in live.
Actually, I can confirm that Molten Core and CoE still affect Chaos Bolt. I believe Emberstorm does as well, but I didn't check before I put talents in there.
Chaos Bolt is probably chaos damage the way that frostfire bolt is "fire damage unless the target is vulnerable to frost in which case it does frost damage"... which is to say, not at all. Chaos damage is fire damage with special properties, frostfire bolt is frostfire damage. Does it show up in the combat log as fire damage or no?
Chaos Bolt is probably chaos damage the way that frostfire bolt is "fire damage unless the target is vulnerable to frost in which case it does frost damage"... which is to say, not at all. Chaos damage is fire damage with special properties, frostfire bolt is frostfire damage. Does it show up in the combat log as fire damage or no?
It shows up in the log as Chaos damage.
Ruin appears to be fixed, and Destruction's putting out noticeably better DPS. Chaos Bolt is pretty strong now that it has the benefit of Ruin.
I'm still operating without Backdraft since it hasn't changed.
Actually, I can confirm that Molten Core and CoE still affect Chaos Bolt. I believe Emberstorm does as well, but I didn't check before I put talents in there.
Improved Shadow Bolt is affecting Chaos Bolt aswell now.
Chaos Bolt can't miss. Try wailing on a target dummy when you're level 70 a few dozen times. Every hit is a partial resist, but it never misses. That strikes me as odd--the description says it can't be resisted, but that's a miss now, not a resist (plus resistance is happening in the partial sense anyways). I wonder what sort of stretches were made to the resist table to accomodate that functionality.
Imp got off 71 Bolts before I stopped him (with like 300 mana left). 142 seconds in casting, Recount is calculating in terms of 172 seconds for some reason, 245 DPS, 42206 damage total. (So for the DPS numbers I'm unsure. I want to say it was 142 seconds because of the Imp, but maybe he was lagging?)
The Water Elemental has about 0.5s cast delay, at least on live. Waterbolt has 2.5s cast time, but when you check logs and timestamps, it's about 3.0s per cast. I usually get 14-15 Waterbolts during the 45s pet duration.
Your Imp with that data would be at 2.4s time between hits, in line with Water Elemental.
Searing Totem has the same issue. I think all NPCs probably have.
Originally Posted by PSGarak
Chaos Bolt can't miss. Try wailing on a target dummy when you're level 70 a few dozen times. Every hit is a partial resist, but it never misses. That strikes me as odd--the description says it can't be resisted, but that's a miss now, not a resist (plus resistance is happening in the partial sense anyways). I wonder what sort of stretches were made to the resist table to accomodate that functionality.
Try shooting at a druid/whatever of your level with Mark of the Wild and see if you get any partial resists.
The partials you see are likely coded "harder" than the anti-resist behaviour.
Even holy gets partial resists even though there is no holy resistance in the game at all.
Whether you get partials vs. someone with MotW (+resist all) or not should settle that part.
Originally Posted by Craft
Improved Shadow Bolt is affecting Chaos Bolt aswell now.
If you're on a beta server, you could try if the +5% frost damage from a Death Knight Runeforge stacks with it as well.
Intuition says that it should, if Chaos is really Chaos meaning Frostfirearcaneshadownatureholy and not just Shadowflame.
Basically, any modifier that affects even only one of the schools should affect Chaos Bolt.
Chaos bolt seems to be counting as a shadow damage spell in an inconsistent way, it procs the healing effect on shadow spells from the Frozen Shadoweave set bonus, but in a couple dozen casts it never procced Molten Core for me on the PTR.
As mentioned above, both of these now basically summon mana-oil type thingies that you apply to your weapon as an imbue. Just a retard-check, they do not stack with each other, I assume they do not stack with weapon oils. The summoned item has 5 charges, the buff lasts 1 hour, and the summoned item is *not* listed as conjured. In about 12 more minutes we'll find out if it pops anyways.
Firestone is 1% to direct damage spells and 35 crit rating. Spellstone is 40 haste rating and 1% damage to DoTs. Stat pane updates as advertised, horay.
Some bad news: In a full destro build, testing with immolate says that the firestone is not actually 1%. It jumped my immolates from 780-781 to 786-787. My guess is it's stacking additively, rather than multiplicatively, with either emberstorm or improved immolate or both. It did add a full 1% to my deathcoil (780-1 -> 788) so it actually works as advertised, there's just stacking issues.
Neither the spellstone nor firestone currently affects Rain of Fire or Hellfire. I don't know about SoC. That has a damage range, it takes more than 3-4 casts to run some tests. It could be an oversight, or AoE may simply fall into a separate category.
I didn't run any DoT tests with the spellstone (the server was restarting). I would reasonably assume it has similar issues to the firestone, i.e. it does add 1% damage as listed but has stacking issues with e.g. shadow mastery, improved corruption, or contagion. Stacking issues with buffs/debuffs like shadow embrace and ISB is also unknown.
One thing I haven't seen many people talking about from Beta is Demonology rotations. Affliction looks varied and fun, as does Destruction assuming they fix the issues with conflag / backdraft -- and hopefully add a talent for chaotic mind.
But is demonology at least as involved as keeping corruption / immolate up and then switching between shadowbolt and incinerate on molten core procs -- or do you get your best dps out of simple shadowbolt spam? I'd really love to go demonology for raiding, but not if it means mindless shadowbolt spamming once again. Ideally demon would be even a little more in-depth than just shadow -> fire switching with molten core, but I suppose they have the problem that all damage spells are destruction / affliction.
For my demo build, I'll likely be using 0/52/16 +3 or something very close. Rotation wise, I have a feeling I'll continue to use shadowbolt spam while keeping corruption and immolate up. Incinerate just doesn't seem to be as good unless I have access to deeper destruction talents that buff it. Molten core procs feel less reliable than the crit based improved shadowbolt, and the duration is half as long. Yea, its boring, but it's been effective for me in BC, and this will be even better now that I can get ruin too.
While we're discussing demo, demonic empathy is half broken. Your spells grant the pet the buff, but his spells/abilities don't grant you with it. A major problem I see with it is the 'spells and abilities' part. Assuming that most warlocks will be using the felguard that far into the tree, its poorly implemented. When the pet gets the buff, only cleave and intercept get a damage bonus, not his melee strikes. While every meaningful action you do is a spell and thus affected when you have the buff, he could only proc the buff for you when his cleave or intercept crits, not his normal melee strikes.
I think a good fix would be allowing all crits (melee strikes/spells/abilities) to grant the buff, and lasting for the 15s or next 3 (melee strikes/spells/abilities). The 3% damage increase seems a bit weak too for a talent that deep in, but they're still tweaking dps of course. Overall its fairly weak now, I'm hoping they'll buff it in an upcoming build.
Actually, the mana cost isn't so odd; it is deliberately too high. If the DPM of Shadowburn was too great, it may becomes a viable spell in a normal rotation. However, because it costs a shard, that would require 4 shards/minute/attempt. So an eight minute boss fight would take 32 shards, which warlocks can carry, it's just annoying. Can you imagine the complaining if it turned out optimal DPS on some boss required 32 shards per attempt? So in order to nip that in the bud, Blizzard simply costed the spell high enough that DPM would never be a selling point for it.
This is also a limiting factor on Shadowburn's damage: too high a DPCT would make it part of raid rotations as well.
They want to make Conflagrate and Chaos Bolt viable in rotations, why can't they (or don't want) do the same with Shadowburn? Soul Shard limitation is extremely serious, and I would assume the gain, if any would be too low to have it viable in a rotation, but it could become useful for fights with adds, where you would finish things with Shadowburn. Right now its DPM is like 2 times worse than spells useful in rotations, DPCT is about as bad. It's not just "slightly below viable", it's "horrible".
I'm wondering about mechanics of "Chaos" damage. To be precise I'm wondering about value of school flags in combat log. Enabling combat logging to file and posting a few lines of log involving Chaos Bolt would be appreciated (or if you know how to determine value of school flags you can provide just it). It's interesting if it's new school, or something like Fire+Shadow or more schools put together.
I don't think immolate is all that viable in demo rotations. If at all it's a small dps gain and uses up another debuff slot. I tried demon/destro a bit on beta and went succubus with a spec giving me demonic pact/devastation. I picked the talent giving me and my pet +3%? damage instead of the talent giving me pet crit based on 30% of my spell crit. If you are the debuffer in a raid, that's probably a bad idea and I'd guess long term you want one of those warlocks as demonic pact will outscale similar buffs really fast. It's already slightly better with my lvl 70 gear now.
All I did was coe/cor/sbolt. Did some heroics and dps was alright, worse then affliction but then my crit sucks in lvl 70 gear and this is a sbolt spam spec again. I also did not even spec for felguard, which is surely nice to have in 5 men stuff, but the master dmeon buff of succubus (5% dmg, 5% crit) compared to felguard (5% dmg, -5% dmg taken) is just so much better that I doubt the personal dps of the felguard (if it's even better, did anyone test that?) can make up for 5% crit.
Some Chaos Bolt combatlog entries from 2 kills in Terokkar, first without and second one with CoE applied. I edited out minor stuff like my Imp getting attacked or its Fire Shield doing damage.
Thank you, from that I can see that Chaos Bolt school is 0x7F (Physical+Holy+Fire+Nature+Frost+Shadow+Arcane = All). So Chaos is vastly superior version of Frostfire. So it should be affected by Improved Shadow Bolt, Emberstorm, both benefit from and proc Molten Core and all cool stuff you can think about.
Originally Posted by Roywyn
The partials you see are likely coded "harder" than the anti-resist behaviour.
Even holy gets partial resists even though there is no holy resistance in the game at all.
Whether you get partials vs. someone with MotW (+resist all) or not should settle that part.
I guess resistance against Chaos Bolt is always 0 (since physical "resistance" is always 0, even while "armor" is technically "physical resistance" the mechanics are generally different), but level-based partials are still there as for all magic damage.
Has anyone tested whether chaos bolt works in terms of piercing absorbtion mechanics?
Im especially interested in how it works with respect to anti magic shield/shell, and spell reflect.
edit: its a spell with a physical flag: i wonder if it will lock out auto attack >.> (if counterspelled) or would it be completely immune to lock out, like throwing a grenade?
As mentioned above, both of these now basically summon mana-oil type thingies that you apply to your weapon as an imbue. Just a retard-check, they do not stack with each other, I assume they do not stack with weapon oils. The summoned item has 5 charges, the buff lasts 1 hour, and the summoned item is *not* listed as conjured. In about 12 more minutes we'll find out if it pops anyways.
Firestone is 1% to direct damage spells and 35 crit rating. Spellstone is 40 haste rating and 1% damage to DoTs. Stat pane updates as advertised, horay.
Some bad news: In a full destro build, testing with immolate says that the firestone is not actually 1%. It jumped my immolates from 780-781 to 786-787. My guess is it's stacking additively, rather than multiplicatively, with either emberstorm or improved immolate or both. It did add a full 1% to my deathcoil (780-1 -> 788) so it actually works as advertised, there's just stacking issues.
Neither the spellstone nor firestone currently affects Rain of Fire or Hellfire. I don't know about SoC. That has a damage range, it takes more than 3-4 casts to run some tests. It could be an oversight, or AoE may simply fall into a separate category.
I didn't run any DoT tests with the spellstone (the server was restarting). I would reasonably assume it has similar issues to the firestone, i.e. it does add 1% damage as listed but has stacking issues with e.g. shadow mastery, improved corruption, or contagion. Stacking issues with buffs/debuffs like shadow embrace and ISB is also unknown.
For the stacking of % damage buffs, as far as I knew, all your % buffs add up then get multiplied to whatever damage you do. All the % debuffs on the mob multiply separately. Think it's somewhere on the Compedium thread, tested/posted a long while ago.
Thank you, from that I can see that Chaos Bolt school is 0x7F (Physical+Holy+Fire+Nature+Frost+Shadow+Arcane = All). So Chaos is vastly superior version of Frostfire. So it should be affected by Improved Shadow Bolt, Emberstorm, both benefit from and proc Molten Core and all cool stuff you can think about.
They've taken out most school-specific buffs so it's not going to double-dip winter's chill+iScorch+SW+Stormstrike, but being Physical should make it pick up an extra 2% from Blood Frenzy (or rogue equivalent). I would be most curious if it happened to soak Rampage/LotP as well, although I highly doubt it. Holy also means it automatically bypasses resistances on gear and buffs with no special coding. Are there any other random buffs it would pick up?
If by "immunity shield" they mean things like being fire-immune, magic-immune, etc, then Chaos Bolt will bypass them just by stint of being whichever school it needs to be, unless the target is immune to everything (paladin). That would require extra programming, as would absorb effects. It also makes me wonder if it suffers AC reduction on a magic-immune target. That will take some ingenuity to test.
09/19/08, 9:10 PM
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