How are people doing managing their keybinds or macros? The problem I have with things like molten core where you want to switch back and forth between two different spam spells is that I don't have a good system down for doing so. Unfortunately the macro system hasn't been able to automate things like that for some time, so I'm curious what solutions other testers have come up with.
Thanks for the Demo details, Fireye! I'll update the code later tonight.
New version of SimulationCraft (r559) available:
* General
o Change mana from intellect method to only return 1-for-1 for the first 20 intellect
o Change health from stamina method to only return 1-for-1 for the first 20 stamina
o Changed method for base pet 5% crit such that it may be modified with "gear" in the config file if necessary
o Cleaned up method pet uses to inherit attributes from owner
o In raid_wotlk.txt, Spirit on gear increased from 250 to 500
* Druid
o Fix initialization order of Treants such that they take advantage of Brambles.
* Mage
o Add arcane_brilliance to Mage action lists
o Mage_Arcane now able to use Molten Armor with increased Spirit on gear (but no longer uses Arcane Power)
o Arcane Barrage no longer procs Missile Barrage
o Arcane Blast benefits from Incineration
o Arcane spells get cost reduction from Arcane Focus
o New Pyroblast mechanics for WotLK
o Change to 2pcT5 for WotLK
o Critical Mass provides 2% per talent point, up from 1%
o Mind Mastery reduced from 25% to 15%
o Update base attribute values
* Priest
o Clean up initialization order of Shadowfiend
* Shaman
o Level 80 Totem of Wrath increased to 280 Spell Power
* Warlock
o Change stacking passive damage-enhancing talents to be additive instead of multiplicative.
o Clean up initialization order of Warlock pets
Using SB as destro is pointless now, it's a waste of mana. Using it for ISB and MC procs isn't worth it. Corruption may be, the jury is out on that. However, the proc rate on MC is so low it makes corruption just for MC pretty pointless. Odd that they have a +shadow dmg buff from a shadow spell, but the +fire buff is also from shadow, not from fire. In a fire destro build the synergies aren't there (at least for a min/maxing 25-man raiding build).
EDIT for spelling
It's pointless at 80, for certain, but for whatever brief period of time we spend at 70 all the rotations I tried were roughly even (at a T4+ gear level). As such, it's not pointless to use SB at that point, just in the long run.
Could you provide the talent spec you used to get to the Felguard?
Did you use the same talent spec for each demon?
I need to reverse-engineer what kind of "weapon" each demon is sporting so I need to see which dps-enhancing talents were taken.
After semi limited testing on PTR, I did notice something. Shadowfury gives a 100% proc rate of MC. Not sure how good the dps is on SF, but on many fights we are moving so a use while moving spell is always good; not to mention aoe stun can always be good.
I need to reverse-engineer what kind of "weapon" each demon is sporting so I need to see which dps-enhancing talents were taken.
Thanks!
What causes the pet "down time"?
I've Raid Down-Time for felhunter and succubus but never for imp; infinite_mana=0 or infinite_mana=1 don't change that.
On the PTR (at 70) is the opposite: the imp runs out of mana after 1 minute or so, but the felhunter and the succubus go on indefinitely.
What causes the pet "down time"?
I've Raid Down-Time for felhunter and succubus but never for imp; infinite_mana=0 or infinite_mana=1 don't change that.
On the PTR (at 70) is the opposite: the imp runs out of mana after 1 minute or so, but the felhunter and the succubus go on indefinitely.
Down-Time occurs when the player AI gets all the way through its action priority list and none of the actions in that list are "ready".
while the ready method can be customized per action (spell, attack, etc), generally the following conditions are checked:
(1) Is there sufficient resource to execute the action? (mana, energy, rage, etc)
(2) Is the action still on cooldown?
(3) Is the action a DoT and still ticking?
Auto-attacks are not in the action priority list.... they are background actions that happen continuously. This means that the only thing in the Succubus action list is "lash_of_pain" which is limited by a cooldown. So.... when that action is on cooldown, the Succubus is considered waiting. (Felhunter is similar.)
Right now the pets are considered to have infinite mana (which is why the Imp goes forever). That will be changing soon..... but I need more information. My impression was that pet mana regen did not follow the same formula as regular players.... Anybody have any info at all???
Detailed note: Both succubus and felhunter actually have another action in the list "wait". This action does exactly what it says...... It is simply a performance enhancement. Player AI is kicked off via a "player-ready" event. When this event occurs, the AI walks through the priority list and executes the first action that is "ready". When no actions are ready it submits a new player-ready event 0.1sec into the future. In the case of the Succubus this represents tons of unnecessary events while waiting for lash_of_pain to come off of CD.
How are people doing managing their keybinds or macros? The problem I have with things like molten core where you want to switch back and forth between two different spam spells is that I don't have a good system down for doing so. Unfortunately the macro system hasn't been able to automate things like that for some time, so I'm curious what solutions other testers have come up with.
The easiest thing would be using most of the keys near your movement keys for casting. Use modifiers!
I use "e" for Incinerate, "Shift-E" for Immolate, "q" for my assigned curse, "Shift-Q" for a backup curse, "4" for lifetap and "3" for SB. "1" is SoC, "^" is my focus-banish-macro, "r" searing pain. With Shift, I could do even more, but I find that those are the most often used spells in a raid environment (which will ofcourse change come wolk).
The easiest thing would be using most of the keys near your movement keys for casting. Use modifiers!
I use "e" for Incinerate, "Shift-E" for Immolate, "q" for my assigned curse, "Shift-Q" for a backup curse, "4" for lifetap and "3" for SB. "1" is SoC, "^" is my focus-banish-macro, "r" searing pain. With Shift, I could do even more, but I find that those are the most often used spells in a raid environment (which will ofcourse change come wolk).
I actually re-bind the movement keys to w, e, r, s, d, and f, even though i generally use the mouse to move.
This allows me to use z,a,q, 2, 3, 4, 5, t, g, (and also v and b) quite comfortably....basically opens up three extra keys for easy key-binds.....Then again, I dislike using modifier keys in combat.
Having tried Destro on PTR last night, I found it very awkward. Just with Immo. Incin, Conflag & CB it's hard given CB's cooldown and having to watch Conflag timer. Add in Corruption and it gets worse. Admittedly having working mods will make it a bit easier, but it's still not a smooth rotation and needs pausing for everything to fit.
Never wait, incinerate! (tm)
The destro rotation is indeed more awkward than live, but then again so is cutting your toenails.
I've been messing around with all the specs and their rotations are quite complex, but it's nothing a solid week of raiding won't fix. You'll get used to them.
Destro does seem to have a rotation. Immolate > Chaos bolt incinerate for 12 seconds and conflag > immolate > chaos bolt. Weave in Corruption and Doom and you've got yourself something manageable. This also happens to be the highest dps rotation I could do.
Like I said, I've been messing around with every spec, but I gear up so fast on beta with 1 day resets, it's almost impossible to do a fair comparison (and it's too much fun to take gear off for a dps test).
So far, what it's looking like on patchwerk, pure dps: Affliction coming out marginally on top (I think it's because it scales better). Destro is marginally behind but has it's benefits on some fights such as Gothik and Thaddius so it's a wash. Demo lags behind both of those, but it's not even a huge gap (it is bigger than Aff - Destro). Demonic Pact is ridiculously good if you don't have an Elemental Shaman.. The personal dps loss is probably made up (and more) by the 200-250 spell power you're giving the raid.
My concern with a decent Destro rotation is not using CB as soon as it's up from CD, which appears to be the case. With Immolate being 15 seconds, with conflag another GCD and then immo cast, you need to let CB sit for a while before reusing. Pity, but it seems to only manageable way.
I've scoured the posts from about a month or so back, and am unable to find anything specifically discussing the viability of using (as Destro) CoA as a casted curse--due to it now proccing MC. I have only my own anecdotes from PTR to draw on, but it appears to be a notable increase to dps--and, failing that, certainly a substantial increase to MC uptime. With both Corrupton and Curse of Agony maintained on the target, the Molten Core buff is present nigh-continuously.
Needless to say it adds yet another chore (and GCD) to an already busy rotation, but at the very least might provide a slightly superior alternative to using corruption as your MC-proc tool, due to the longer uptime of the curse.
If this has been previously discussed and/or is utterly old hat, I sincerely apologize.
Sorry I would just like to get a clear answer on what the warlock community believes to be the spec to play in raid situations at lvl 70 and then at lvl 80.
Destruction or Affliction.
If I have somehow missed it please remove the post and let me know where I would find it. From what I have read so far it seems affliction will be superior once our gear gets better, so does that mean, when we hit lvl 80?
TY.
Last edited by vishal : 09/28/08 at 11:30 AM.
Reason: spelling mistake.
Nobody knows for sure. The lines are wide and blurry. They might stay that way.
Ideally it wouldn't matter what spec you were (as long as it was decent), you could put out the same dps.
That might not happen due to the complexity of what we're presented with, but so far it seems like that's the goal.
Could you provide the talent spec you used to get to the Felguard?
Did you use the same talent spec for each demon?
I need to reverse-engineer what kind of "weapon" each demon is sporting so I need to see which dps-enhancing talents were taken.
I don't think that Unholy Power of any of those talents modify the pet paper doll stats for the felguard.
Edit: Did the four standard warlock pets without a spec.
And, bah, the paper doll damage is indeed affected by unholy power, take 20% off the felguard to get the real base damage, so about 196-244 (197-245 if the paperdoll rounds up I guess)
Question for those who have specced Affliction in the beta: Is the Felhunter even worth it as a pet currently? Does Improved Felhunter return enough mana at 80 to make Dark Pact worth it? Finally, I've heard various things about the Imp as an affliction Pet (for regen). Has anything changed?
Question for those who have specced Affliction in the beta: Is the Felhunter even worth it as a pet currently? Does Improved Felhunter return enough mana at 80 to make Dark Pact worth it? Finally, I've heard various things about the Imp as an affliction Pet (for regen). Has anything changed?
I'm on the PTR, so the following applies to level 70.
Right now felhunter dps sucks, even with 4 dots on a mob the imp does equal or more damage.
Sadly the imp runs out of mana after 1-2 mins, while the felhunter, even without Improved Felhunter goes on forever.
Dark Pact isn't worth the point spent on it, just get Improved Life Tap and get healed by Siphon Life and Haunt.
Yeah, the thing about using dark pact on the felhunter is you need to have him attacking in order to help maintain his mana pool, or else you'll drain it too quickly.
It's not weather your felhunter runs oom or not, because it doesn't. It's just that dp gives less mana than imp lifetap. So dp isn't worth its talentpoint.
My felhunter does 180 dps in a raid (so yes, he is the affliction pet considering imp goes oom) but you should only put 1 point in improved felhunter so he can shadow bite indefinitely. Life tap is more mana than dark pact with 2/2 Improved and when Haunt is fixed you'll easily heal yourself through it along with siphon. It's just like live, Life Tap "damage" is easily healed up.
If you want to Dark Pact, 2/2 Improved Felhunter and you can do it 3-4 times as much as lifetapping in a raid. You will still have to lifetap a few times.
My felhunter does 180 dps in a raid (so yes, he is the affliction pet considering imp goes oom) but you should only put 1 point in improved felhunter so he can shadow bite indefinitely.
Have you tried with no Imp felhunter at all? The felhunter should be able to shadow bite forever even if not talented.
A few Dr. Boom numbers:
Felhunter: melee: 175-194, shadowbite: 223-229
Succubus: melee: 223-250, lash of pain: 368
On the target dummies in Orgrimmar my Succubus reached 150 dps, the Felhunter 135-140 (with 0/0/0). The Imp ran oom. If I go affliction I will not waste talent points for pets or Dark pact.
I've scoured the posts from about a month or so back, and am unable to find anything specifically discussing the viability of using (as Destro) CoA as a casted curse--due to it now proccing MC. I have only my own anecdotes from PTR to draw on, but it appears to be a notable increase to dps--and, failing that, certainly a substantial increase to MC uptime. With both Corrupton and Curse of Agony maintained on the target, the Molten Core buff is present nigh-continuously.
Needless to say it adds yet another chore (and GCD) to an already busy rotation, but at the very least might provide a slightly superior alternative to using corruption as your MC-proc tool, due to the longer uptime of the curse.
If this has been previously discussed and/or is utterly old hat, I sincerely apologize.
There was some initial discussion when the talent was first announced, but as for the longest time CoA didn't proc Molten Core it hasn't really been brought into consideration. I can confirm that MC procs off of CoA and even CoD. I also have to second that with both Corruption and CoA going Molten Core is up a good 90% of the time.
Ultimately several questions will have to be answered. First, is Corruption worth casting at all for Molten Core? At 70 this seems to be the case, but scaling at 80 may change this. Second, is CoA worth casting over CoD? This will depend greatly on the answer to the first question. If Corruption is not worth casting for Molten Core then CoA won't deal with diminishing returns on the proc rate, a point in its favor over CoD.
I think that in the end we'll see both Corruption and CoD lose out to CoA.
On an unrelated note, it appears that Backdraft no longer affects Hellfire and Rain of Fire. I've reported this as a bug, but am concerned as they also did not eat charges. This may indicate a desire on Blizzard's part to prevent us from Backdrafting those AoE spell. Personally, that was all that was even enabling them to compete with SoC.
Were u full doting Boom to check the real shadowbite dmg?
I honestly don't remember the setup correctly, some of the numbers seem too high now. So I tested again on the dummies (80). Gear was mostly lvl 70, ca. 1500-1600 spelldmg. No raidbuffs or debuffs, no pet improving talents, Affliction with full dots applied. Current results:
Felhunter: 123 dps, I recorded Shadow Bites between 243 and 272
Succubus: 129 dps, Lash of Pain 317
edit: looking at the data, slightly better gear and no debuffs except malediction CoE might explain my previous numbers.
09/27/08, 10:02 AM
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