I'm curious as to what your rotation was when you tested this build. I've been testing it for about a week now alongside 56/0/5 and 51/0/10 and have consistently been able to outperform both builds by a decent margin as 5/3/53. You seem to be Chaos Bolting on C/D, which I do not attempt, and in my tests I'm consistently out DPSing your benchmark by a good margin with less gear (your Incinerate crit rate was a decent amount above your normal crit rate as well). This isn't an attempt to brag, just pointing out that Chaos Bolting on C/D might not be ideal because you essentially lose an Incinerate in your rotation. I'd be interested in seeing if your DPS goes up while using the following rotation:
Note: First three spells in parenthesis are opening spells, don't include them in the repeat portion.
(CoE->Chaos Bolt->Corruption)->Immolate->Incinerate x 7->Chaos Bolt->Life Tap once or twice depending on mana->Corruption repeat.
Results from a typical test for me on a 70 test dummy (I'll just copy your format because it's neat :P):
Spec link: 5/3/53 Fire
Overall: 3 min trial (OOMed), 324322 damage (1777.2 dps), Imp = 8% of overall damage.
I actually missed a full Corruption when I trinketed the second time, which is why the tick #/dmg is lower than it should be.
I'll check this too tonight. I didn't pop my skull of gul'dan, so that might account for a part of the disparity. I did try to chaos bolt on CD, but I can see some merit in saving the bolt for when you're off the immolate to maximize incinerate-on-immolate uptime.
anyone else try a 0/21/40 build with conflag and molten core?
here are the numbers i was getting
400 corruption ticks
400 immolate ticks
1000-2200 immolate initial hits
1500-2500 conflag hits
2500-5200 shadow bolt hits
2400-6000 incinerate hits
only buffs i had were imp sacrifice, curse of elements and master firestone. the rotation i used was corruption, shadow bolt spam till either molten core procced or corruption fell off. then when molten core procced immolate, a couple incinerates and conflag. i'm just wondering if this is going to be raid viable come tuesday
I'll check this too tonight. I didn't pop my skull of gul'dan, so that might account for a part of the disparity. I did try to chaos bolt on CD, but I can see some merit in saving the bolt for when you're off the immolate to maximize incinerate-on-immolate uptime.
With Skull popped you'll be able to fit 8 or 9 Incinerates into that Immolate, so you should see a decent DPS increase there. A guildie of mine who has Skull tried it out and came up with 1820 DPS, and I'm interested to see what you get.
With Skull popped you'll be able to fit 8 or 9 Incinerates into that Immolate, so you should see a decent DPS increase there. A guildie of mine who has Skull tried it out and came up with 1820 DPS, and I'm interested to see what you get.
Yeah of course. I assume that trinket popping universally favors destruction over affliction. I'll work those into my next attempts too (i.e., pivot on the top affliction vs. destruction build with/without CoA and with gul'dan).
A question actually on your rotation. If you're not trying to chaos bolt on CD, then when are you trying to get it in? You can fill up your entire rotation with incinerate/immolate, so in an ideal situation, you should really be weighing if an incinerate is better than a chaos bolt for DPS. If it is, then you never want incinerate in your rotation, and if it isn't, you should be trying to maximize your chaos bolts CD at the cost of incinerates.
(The counter to this argument would be using chaos bolt as the alternative to an incinerate that would otherwise clip an immolate. I suppose if the damage difference between incinerate and chaos bolt were that small then this could become an issue. I would be surprised if it was the case, though.)
Also, when did you take the DPS count on your recount? I do spike to 1750-1800, but after tapping (admittedly on demand after dots are up vs. on a fixed cycle), I quickly steady state back down to 1650. I terminate the session by running out which knocks my dps down by some arbitrary amount dependent on the time I stay in combat. From now on I'll be reporting final DPS at the moment I decide to quit before I run out to make sure things stay consistent.
(And one final thing, I presume you still have soulfrost on your weapon, right?)
-I'm Chaos Bolting at the end of an Incinerate rotation, as Immolate is running out but there's not time to cast another Incinerate before Immolate drops. Like I said, it's Incinerate x 7 -> Chaos Bolt -> Corrup-> Life Tap once or twice. The reason for this? Well let's say your Chaos Bolt comes up right before you're going to cast your 6th Incinerate in your rotation. By casting it, you net a small damage increase over an Incinerate, but lose the opportunity to Chaos Bolt 2 casts later as Immolate is falling off, which would yield a large damage increase because you get the Incinerate you casted instead, plus the Chaos Bolt.
-As for my snapshot, I take it right as I cast my last Chaos Bolt and my pet casts his last Firebolt, which usually hits as Immolate and Corruption are falling off.
Has the bug of Conflag not benefitting from Ruin been fixed on the PTR yet? If so, has anyone done any fresh comparisons of Backdraft v. non-Backdraft rotations again? Last I saw Backdraft was about 100 DPS ahead of no Backdraft with bugged Conflag, but ignoring DPM and LT time.
-I'm Chaos Bolting at the end of an Incinerate rotation, as Immolate is running out but there's not time to cast another Incinerate before Immolate drops. Like I said, it's Incinerate x 7 -> Chaos Bolt -> Corrup-> Life Tap once or twice. The reason for this? Well let's say your Chaos Bolt comes up right before you're going to cast your 6th Incinerate in your rotation. By casting it, you net a small damage increase over an Incinerate, but lose the opportunity to Chaos Bolt 2 casts later as Immolate is falling off, which would yield a large damage increase because you get the Incinerate you casted instead, plus the Chaos Bolt.
You're twisting the situation with unnecessary qualifiers. There's nothing guaranteeing that a Chaos Bolt is a "small" damage increase over an Incinerate, and it's certainly not a "large" difference to lose the Immolate bonus on a single incinerate.
In both situations you get an Incinerate and a Chaos Bolt, the trade off is the bonus damage from Immolate versus using Chaos Bolt less often. Essentially you turn a 14 second cooldown into an 18ish second cooldown, for 180 damage or so. At 80 though, my Chaos Bolts hit for about 800-1000 more than an Incinerate, and cast faster. CB scales better than Incinerate too. And you are assuming that you always lose an Incinerate. In reality, you will only lose that Incinerate if you have between 2.25 and 1.5 seconds left on your Immolate at the end of a cast (modified by haste), because if it's less than 1.5s, you can just recast immolate.
On the other hand, since Chaos Bolt's cooldown doesn't start until the end of the cast, you can only get one off every 14 seconds or so, not every 12 seconds. 14 seconds is pretty close to 15, the length of your Immolate cycle. And it could be beneficial to have Chaos Bolt in a fixed position of the rotation.
I'd like to challenge the notion that Amplify Curse is worthless, by comparing it to Nightfall. In the Affliction builds I've tried, these two talents often compete along with Fel Concentration for early filler points. I've done some napkin math as below, with the following considerations:
* I'm not great at precise maths, especially around modelling proc abilities.
* I've not tested any of this, its all theory
* I lack the skill or the knowledge to fully appreciate variable haste levels in my math
Nightfall v Amplify Curse
Assuming we're using CoAgony in a 5 min fight, we'll apply it 11 times (glyphed CoA = 28 seconds / 300). This talent therefore gives us 5.5 extra seconds in that time.
I've assumed Nightfall procs from Corruption only as thats the optimal damage behaviour at the moment, using SB as filler. In 5 mins, Corruption (100% uptime) will tick 100 times(300 / 3). This should mean 4 Nightfall procs. Critically though, Nightfall is only 'worth' 1s per proc as we're still limited by the GCD when we use it. Therefore in the same fight length 2 points in Nightfall return just 4s compared to 5.5s returned by 1pt in Amplify Curse.
Now there are clearly things I've missed in this. The ability to cast a SB whilst moving in fights where its needed, the RNG nature of Nightfall boosting trash/short fights, even assuming perfect dot uptime in both cases. What is clear to me though is that each talent point in Nightfall returns 0.4s per minute vs 1.1s per minute for Amplify Curse, in these perfect circumstances. That seems a very large deficit for RNG/fight mechanics to overcome.
Has anyone noticed that F&B appears to be bugged on PTR? I wanted to see how much extra DPS it gave to Immolate from 0-5 points, so did a range of casts. Up to 3 points gave me small DPS increases, but the 4th point didn't seem to give any increase and the 5th point was a decrease. Can anyone else confirm this?
Even unbugged, it's such an amazingly poor return for the points I'm amazed the devs have left it as is.
I´m a bit confused at the moment. I went to the trainer to respec, specced into Chaos Bolt and talked to the trainer again to train the higher ranks (which i assumed would exist, because its a talent). The trainer only provided ranks 3 and 4 of the spell which were, consequently, red, because i did not yet train the rank 2. Is this a bug? Or is Chaos Bolt a 1-rank spell (i believe not) and the ranks 3-4 the trainer provides are not intended?
The same goes for Haunt, exactly the same problem. Do you have any clues on that issue?
I´m a bit confused at the moment. I went to the trainer to respec, specced into Chaos Bolt and talked to the trainer again to train the higher ranks (which i assumed would exist, because its a talent). The trainer only provided ranks 3 and 4 of the spell which were, consequently, red, because i did not yet train the rank 2. Is this a bug? Or is Chaos Bolt a 1-rank spell (i believe not) and the ranks 3-4 the trainer provides are not intended?
The same goes for Haunt, exactly the same problem. Do you have any clues on that issue?
I did the same thing, make sure you have "show available" checked in addition to "show unavailable" on the trainer interface.
anyone else try a 0/21/40 build with conflag and molten core?
here are the numbers i was getting
400 corruption ticks
400 immolate ticks
1000-2200 immolate initial hits
1500-2500 conflag hits
2500-5200 shadow bolt hits
2400-6000 incinerate hits
only buffs i had were imp sacrifice, curse of elements and master firestone. the rotation i used was corruption, shadow bolt spam till either molten core procced or corruption fell off. then when molten core procced immolate, a couple incinerates and conflag. i'm just wondering if this is going to be raid viable come tuesday
What is the point of using conflagrate if you don't have Backdraft (which you can't get with 40 points in destruction)?
Conflagrate has low dpct as it eats up at least one tick of your immolate and has less talent points supporting it than incinerate.
In reality, you will only lose that Incinerate if you have between 2.25 and 1.5 seconds left on your Immolate at the end of a cast (modified by haste), because if it's less than 1.5s, you can just recast immolate.
We're debating specs at 70 right now for 3.0. And based on this statement, where are you casting Corruption for MC? Or Life tapping for that matter?
My talentspec for Lvl 70 will look like this: Affliction Spec
I'm still thinking about using imp Shadow Bolt again, but after I read that it won't affect dots anymore, I think it's not as important as it is in the current built.
My talentspec for Lvl 70 will look like this: Affliction Spec
I'm still thinking about using imp Shadow Bolt again, but after I read that it won't affect dots anymore, I think it's not as important as it is in the current built.
Why put the 3 points into Cataclysm instead of something like Death's Embrace since we still have to get the 3 points of +hit in gear for Soulshatter anyway?
My talentspec for Lvl 70 will look like this: Affliction Spec
I'm still thinking about using imp Shadow Bolt again, but after I read that it won't affect dots anymore, I think it's not as important as it is in the current built.
If you have half-decent gear you'll probably be hitcapped so unless you can swap out some hit pieces for much better equipment, the +hit talents aren't really needed yet. Improved CoA is also kinda silly since you should be casting CoE with Malediction or CoD. I also think Death's Embrace is pretty important to have.
But I guess it depends on what the spec is for, leveling or raiding?
If you go for a spec like that, I'd take something like this
The conflag bug is still alive and well on the ptr. I'd guess in the beta as well.
I really wish blizzard would address this and fix it--it makes FnB even more useless than it already is(which is....quite a feat). My question is: Does anyone know _how long_ conflag has been failing to fully benefit from Ruin?
I've toyed with the spell on every build since the PTR opened...and I report it as a bug every build. I've had friends who have reported it as a bug on the PTR forums--their post gets deleted quite quickly. Perhaps this is because it's already been reported once way back when, but it's discouraging to see the problem unaddressed by blizz for so long.
If you have half-decent gear you'll probably be hitcapped so unless you can swap out some hit pieces for much better equipment, the +hit talents aren't really needed yet. Improved CoA is also kinda silly since you should be casting CoE with Malediction or CoD. I also think Death's Embrace is pretty important to have.
But I guess it depends on what the spec is for, leveling or raiding?
If you go for a spec like that, I'd take something like this
You linked my spec
I'm still not hitcapped, so I take the +hit talents.
You're right, CoD or CoE will be better in raiding, but I try to level with this spec (imp out, dots and drain life) and doing 5-man instances, sorry I didn't post that.
I noticed that I forgot the Soul Siphon in my Spec, it will be important leveling my way
I'm still not hitcapped, so I take the +hit talents.
You're right, CoD or CoE will be better in raiding, but I try to level with this spec (imp out, dots and drain life) and doing 5-man instances, sorry I didn't post that.
I noticed that I forgot the Soul Siphon in my Spec, it will be important leveling my way
Malediction has +3% spell damage additional to its effect on CoE so it is better to take it than Cataclysm even if you are not hit capped (shadowbolts are only a part of your damage).
Fully specced CoA of an affliction warlock is better than CoD.
The only time you're going to be casting CoE in a 25 man raid is when your moonkin is dead. You're slightly more likely to be expected to cast CoR, but even that will generally be a backup option. Not only that, but if you have multiple warlocks, the affliction lock should always get first dibs on CoA as it does substantially more damage than any dps curse Demo or Destro can cast. As such, I'd say Imp CoA is almost a mandatory Affliction talent unless you absolutely know ahead of time you won't get to cast it.
The only time you're going to be casting CoE in a 25 man raid is when your moonkin is dead.
Or if there are two or more targets that need to be burned, but not AOE'd. Or if there is another fight similar to Kalecgos, where one moonkin can't keep a 12sec debuff all the time. There's probably a lot of situations and/or possibilities where you simply can not assume the Earth and Moon effect.
Or if there are two or more targets that need to be burned, but not AOE'd. Or if there is another fight similar to Kalecgos, where one moonkin can't keep a 12sec debuff all the time. There's probably a lot of situations and/or possibilities where you simply can not assume the Earth and Moon effect.
As of 3.0, the only T6+ fight I can think of where that will be the case is Kalecgos. In fact, in all of BC it's the only case I can think of, and as yet there's no fights in LK that would be the case. Even so, in those cases CoE is the backup, not the primary, and the safe bet is that you won't be casting it. Of course if your raid doesn't have a moonkin (or a DK later) someone will be stuck using it. However, as a raid buffer, we have been switched to a supplemental role (much as we are now with CoW), not a primary, which is good since we have a direct dps replacement for our debuffs.
If you take the Fel Hunter Talents for the Shadow bite spell, Wouldn't that basically cancel out a Dark Pack hit because your pet is getting back mana so it is not going to go OOM?
I know dark pack gives more then Life Tap right now but will it later with the changes to the gear and having spirit on your gear?,
Also, Who will be putting 15 spirit enchant on their Chests to benifit Life Tap?
10/12/08, 7:47 PM
. Maybe try to pick up DE still though, it's not bad for 5-mans.
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