Ignore me if I just didn't find it, but was there any conclusion already as to whether the extension of Molten Core to 12s changes the filler nuke for Demo, taking Molten Core instead of ImpSB and freeing up 2 points for other talents?
I haven't seen much discussion about Demo nuking, or any consensus, but I'll offer my opinion. During BC, I felt imp shadowbolt and shadowbolt spam was a no brainer for my Demo spec. It was a huge 20% increase to shadowbolt, and it increased my dot damage as well. Tomorrow, it will be half the bonus (+10%) for the same number of points, and apparently will not effect dots at all, even if cast while the effect is active.
Molten core on the other hand, will be the same amount of increase but for fire damage, and at only 3 points. I've frequently seen in this thread that uptime is in the 80% range if using both corruption and coa, but I haven't tested it myself. On average, that would likely be greater than imp shadowbolt uptime, which is dependent on your crit rate.
Basically, I think shadowbolt spam is dead for Demo, for myself at least. I'm still hoping they just redesign the talent, as it's gone from a nuke/dot increase to strictly a nuke increase, and at a reduced amount at that.
Oh also, my guild has a boomkin, so I'd be counting on not having to CoE very much and instead use CoA for the damage and increased molten core uptime.
Blizzard stated that they need to raise the debuff limit, but yes you care correct on that,
4 Locks
UA, SS, Corr, Immolate, SE, Haunt, Thats 6 debuff slots per lock so thats 24, they really do need to raise the limit.
This was stated before they even decided to redo the whole buff/debuff stacking. There is no guarantee they even think they need to raise the limit anymore let alone will.
If you have multiple affliction locks in a raid only one player will be able to put up shadow embrace & benefit from it. Every other lock will be able to refresh the duration of the existing debuff but not benefit from it.
Just wanted to jump on the Aff raid at 70 discussion.
I did some PTR testing and found that I gained ~100 DPS using Immo vs not using it. I don't claim to have perfect uptime, but over multiple tests I clocked ~1750 vs 1850 no immo/immo on Dr. Boom (Spellstone buff only, 4 pc t6, 3 sunfire pieces, felhunter on passive, CoA, no raid buffs/debuffs). Build was more of a leveling build than a 70 raid spec.
Fire destro produced 1650 dps with Firestone, CoE and a mana pot.
Just for reference, what's your DPS right now in that same gear as 0/21/40?
0/21/40 the standarded one button spam destro will still be decent
56/0/5 affliction
7/0/54 fire destro with imp CoA or Curroption with 2 points in IMP LT
7/3/51 fire destro with IMP CoA or Curroption with 2 points in IMP LT and 3 points in IMP imp
I don't understand why you take life tap. With reasonable raid wide mana regen, you need to life tap every 2-3 min. The talent only helps much if the fight is 5 life taps long. I would think that 2/2 CoA and 5/5 Corr would be better.
Live I did just under 1800 dps w/ CoE as 21/40, and chain potting to make it the 5 min it takes to kill Dr. Boom
Thank you. I just did the same thing and got about the same effect, albeit with smaller numbers since I'm in lesser gear. Affliction tries from yesterday on the PTR are coming out slightly ahead of my current 21/40 on live. Destro on PTR was coming out lower. I think the biggest factor is I'm partially braindead from spamming SB so long. I almost go into a sort of trance with it. It's going to suck to realize after all this time that I'm actually a horrible player.
Remember that target dummy/small group tests don't show the full picture. A fully buffed 25-man raid will benefit destruction more than affliction due to crit and haste buffs synergising more with destro than affliction.
I don't understand why you take life tap. With reasonable raid wide mana regen, you need to life tap every 2-3 min. The talent only helps much if the fight is 5 life taps long. I would think that 2/2 CoA and 5/5 Corr would be better.
What raid wide mana regen? We can get about 100mps from VT, JoW & mana spring on live. On beta at level 70 I'm barely getting 50mps from replenishment & mana spring.
I haven't seen much of anything amazing in terms of extra mana regen in raid on the ptr, either--unless you count the most recent incarnation of JoW, which is, as Jynnx posted a bit ago, horribly bugged.
To illustrate: I was dpsing a dummy that was also being used by two pallies who were judging wisdom on the thing...I regenned nearly 29,000 mana over the course of two minutes from their JoWs alone. With that business going on, needless to say my need to lifetap evaporated.
Remember that target dummy/small group tests don't show the full picture. A fully buffed 25-man raid will benefit destruction more than affliction due to crit and haste buffs synergising more with destro than affliction.
All spells benefit from haste pretty much the same.
You're using Corr/UA/SB that crit for 200%, Haunt for 150%. SL/CoA don't benefit from crit, Immo sort of benefits if you use it.
For destruction you have Corr/CoA that don't benefit, Immo only half, CB/Inci/Conflag that actually do. I'd say the scaling is on the affliction side now, considering you're using 2 shadow spells in a fire tree for destruction and Corr/UA don't need ruin to get full 100% crit benefit.
Originally Posted by Kalku
I don't understand why you take life tap. With reasonable raid wide mana regen, you need to life tap every 2-3 min. The talent only helps much if the fight is 5 life taps long. I would think that 2/2 CoA and 5/5 Corr would be better.
On beta, at 80, on a premade with a few pieces of Naxx10/heroic gear (not all with spirit) I have 16.8k mana raid buffed, and around 550 spirit. With the scaling spirit gives Imp LT will end up adding a lot of mana (we'll probably end up on 20k+ mana in Naxx25 gear and quite a bit of spirit bringing LT around to 4k/ with Imp LT).
Q:ISB is wasted talent points at level 70. I am planning a 56/0/5 (bane) unless I am required to move points from affliction to 1/2 or 2/2 healthstone. Are healthstones effected by the potion sickness or can multiple be used per fight?
A: I agree about ISB, haven't tested healthstones, but as they are currently considered different from potions, I imagine they don't have a sickness effect. You could probably healthstone, potion, and HS again in one fight.
I have to disagree there because ISB with 4/5 points still does more proven DPS than taking Death's Embrace thus in my calculations. 56/0/5 is only greater than 52/0/9 if the boss is alive for a nice duration of time. On the PTR you will notice one thing as far as bosses go: They die very fast once below 35%. Normalizing your impact in this instance will be better I'm thinking - but not knowing for sure. I believe your DoTs never get a full duration cycle when a boss hits 35% - excluding end-game content. Post 70 the game changes. Imp ISB does affect DoTs if it is up, and a DoT is put on the mob after the debuff is applied.
I've seen it in my Combat Log. While the nerf is steep, the DPS benefit is still substantial.
Originally Posted by Aaryndon
It's very rhythmic and does solid DPS. Affliction seems to have slightly higher DPS potential but is much more hectic and harder to pull off. Both builds still leave some questions which you posed very well in your post, and we'll see if people agree with my answers.
I don't think Affliction is too difficult, but I do think it will take some skill to play. I'm not sure about Immolate being a DPS increase either given the rotation of Affliction. I'm going to go back and test again, but last I checked with my older 56/0/5 spec it did less DPS, but I'll research the 52/0/9 spec as well.
I haven't seen anything about how the 4pcT5 effect is changing/working with Everlasting Affliction. Does it still stack corruption up to silly heights? Might it be worth going with 4pc T5 for locks who have them, but haven't cleared more than 4/5 MH and 2 in BT?
I am interested in this as well. For those who don't know the video, this was the case a while ago: YouTube - 51/0/10 WotLK Beta Warlock, 56million DPS
At that time you could spam Shadow Bolt to renew the duration of Corruption (now it would be Haunt or Drain Life). 4p T5 and Everlasting Affliction led to Corruption ticks hitting the hard cap of what WoW can handle - 2^32 damage, that's 4 billion shadow damage.
But I really can't imagine they didn't fix this bug. Who has some informations on this?
I am interested in this as well. For those who don't know the video, this was the case a while ago: YouTube - 51/0/10 WotLK Beta Warlock, 56million DPS
At that time you could spam Shadow Bolt to renew the duration of Corruption (now it would be Haunt or Drain Life). 4p T5 and Everlasting Affliction led to Corruption ticks hitting the hard cap of what WoW can handle - 2^32 damage, that's 4 billion shadow damage.
But I really can't imagine they didn't fix this bug. Who has some informations on this?
Nerfed the talent, so this set bonus is non-relevant. The bug cannot exist.
I have to disagree there because ISB with 4/5 points still does more proven DPS than taking Death's Embrace thus in my calculations. 56/0/5 is only greater than 52/0/9 if the boss is alive for a nice duration of time. On the PTR you will notice one thing as far as bosses go: They die very fast. Normalizing your impact in this instance will be better I'm thinking - but not knowing for sure. Post 70 the game changes.
What's the time threshold for Death's Embrace to surpass ISB? Because there are some fights that will still be relatively long post patch in sunwell and late BT.
I don't think Affliction is too difficult, but I do think it will take some skill to play. I'm not sure about Immolate being a DPS increase either given the rotation of Affliction. I'm going to go back and test again, but last I checked with my older 56/0/5 spec it did less DPS, but I'll research the 52/0/9 spec as well.
It's certainly not "too" difficult, just saying it's harder than destruction. It almost makes sense that it's a bit more rewarding (currently), but I do hope they balance all 3 trees to be viable.
See you on Azgalor Aaryn!
Woot! Go azgalor. Your avatar is WIN, by the way. I dunno who it is, but it's good. Kudos.
What's the time threshold for Death's Embrace to surpass ISB? Because there are some fights that will still be relatively long post patch in sunwell and late BT.
It's certainly not "too" difficult, just saying it's harder than destruction. It almost makes sense that it's a bit more rewarding (currently), but I do hope they balance all 3 trees to be viable.
Woot! Go azgalor. Your avatar is WIN, by the way. I dunno who it is, but it's good. Kudos.
Yeah I edited my post to say that certain end-game bosses is where the money is at for DE...I wanna know b/c I'm not sure totally. Its situational. I think given your guild (VoA) I'm sure it is a better bet for you to hit up DE. I'll friend you and we'll do some Warlock chat, b/c I need moar warlock buds.
They are going to balance all three trees to be raid spec for sure, and I think at 80 you can easily bet it is gonna be good.
Edit: Check first post again too, I put that ISB only benefits DoTs cast after ISB is up...yeah my avatar is Sarah Silverman.
And well crap - I can't test on the PTR anymore...they took them down!
All spells benefit from haste pretty much the same.
You're using Corr/UA/SB that crit for 200%, Haunt for 150%. SL/CoA don't benefit from crit, Immo sort of benefits if you use it.
For destruction you have Corr/CoA that don't benefit, Immo only half, CB/Inci/Conflag that actually do. I'd say the scaling is on the affliction side now, considering you're using 2 shadow spells in a fire tree for destruction and Corr/UA don't need ruin to get full 100% crit benefit.
Last I heard, the mage +10% crit buff on the mob didn't affect Pandemic properly (i.e. at all.)
ISB no longer affects any dots ever. It's purely Haunt and Sbolt now.
I'll have to get on this case and check for sure. I'm hearing a lot of the same, and seeing a lot of Blizzard deleting posts about it. I'm inclined to think it is 100% fact - I'll do some more forum snooping.
Last I heard, the mage +10% crit buff on the mob didn't affect Pandemic properly (i.e. at all.)
I think it only works off the caster's crit rate i.e crit debuffs on the mob will have no effect on pandemic.
Originally Posted by Leil
I'll have to get on this case and check for sure. I'm hearing a lot of the same, and seeing a lot of Blizzard deleting posts about it. I'm inclined to think it is 100% fact - I'll do some more forum snooping.
ISB only works on direct damage spells since the last patch and there are quite a few posts in this thread about it.
Nail in the coffin, done deal, and totally not worth it then unless SB spam is really that much benefiting from 4 talent points...56/0/5 should reign supreme then.
The four talent points in my old spec can be reinvested elsewhere for sure.
10/13/08, 7:54 PM
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