I'm inclined to say that if the worse thing you can find about the patch is that things die too quickly now, we made out pretty good.

Based upon what you saw, what would you or anybody for that matter reccommend for raiding sunwell/bt as far as a spec and rotation.

I am actually playing with the calculator right now, and am looking at this:


Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I think going as far as Chaos Bolt is going to be counterproductive, shadow damage is just not as viable, and for a fire build I am thinking keep it simple, rotation of corr (when I can and for the proc on Molten Core) immo/incinX3(4?)/conflag repeat. This would let me get my imp up fast if it went down and get most of the fire goodies. Will try it out in BT this week, we are gonna do BT to play around with builds/etc

To the other poster, yeah I guess I was complaining, about 2 things: 1) the encounters are trivial now and horribly balanced, so you can't really play the game and get anything out of it. Unless you still want loot, but what for since you can now clear sunwell in greens? 2) all the theorycrafting that went into working out diff builds are out the window with the current boss and mob nerf because things die so fast you can't test anything in a meaningful way (I dont have a beta key). I would like my spot in raid to be relevant, and wasn;t able to get there last night in terms of damage - the above would work a lot better I think, but only in this artificial circumstance of broken instances.

Ok because I am seriously disguisted with blizzard. I am sitting here on Doctor Boom with this spec
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and the dps is just disasppointing, its so unpredictable. One try ill be doing 800-900 dps and the next ill be doing 1500-1700 using the same rotation. CoA>Corr>Immo>Cb>inc x 4 conflag .... I have no idea what to spec for my raid to night so that i will actually be able to compete with the other dps

I dont know how many locks you normally carry but I dont understand imp CoA for raiding - use Doom if you havent got reck or elements. Suppression 3/3, I havent armoried you, but if you are in Sunwell you should be hitcapped or just about anyway, for the mana reduction and same with imp lifetap...all I have to say about ret paladins is LOL - you dont need imp lifetap or reduced mana cost talents, and btw our ret pally healed for 5k hps last night on KJ. Yes, you read that right, not that Judgment of Light/Judgment of Wisdom are broken or anything :p

The reason for Imp CoA for raiding with fire destro is it procs molten core which gives you more fire damage.

Because it's 10% more damage? It seems a no brainer to take a talent that increases the damage of a spell you cast. In my testing, CoA was at least as much % of my total damage as Corr, both were around 10-14%. And that was without the CoA glyph.

Oh, and that's just the damage of CoA alone. If you read this thread, I did some math earlier about Molten Core uptime. Using CoA AND Corr instead of just Corr brings your theoretical MC uptime from 48% to 81%. The 2 second ticks REALLY help.

Conflag without Backdraft is just..... bad. There's a reason it wasn't used in TBC at all.

After a long light of hammering it out with the DPS dummys, it seems I have found our best hope;

0/3/58 with imp on Machine Gun mode and a simple rotation of Chaos Bolt > Immolate > Incin x 6, repeat. I tried a MC version with the rotation being Chaos Bolt > Corruption > Immolate > Incin x6, but that seems to do just about the same DPS and your CB goes off cooldown for a little bit longer, and I more-so like being able to spam it as soon as it's up.

Anyone have any other rotations for this spec that they've been working on?

Also, is the Affliction thing true with the test dummies? Does it not show valid readouts?

I posted about this a few pages ago with the results from my test (on PTR 1 or two builds ago). The set bonus is basically broken so as not to be overpowered.

Sorry, too lazy to actually quote myself =p.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

has anyone thought about this? With all the debate about conflag/leech I tried to put together a simple build that buffed the imp instead of CoA. I haven't run any numbers through anything, but it seems like this would be viable, especially with the short life span on mobs.

Affilction on target dumbies doenst work the Pandamic buff doesnt proc right it does 1 damage.

I for one with my T4ish gear, will attest that you cannot properly gauge Affliction on testing dummies, and expect good results.

Flatly put I noticed a 300 DPS increase when I switched from dummies to actual bosses. My spec is 56/0/5 with the Death's Embrace talented out. That talent does pay off on bosses in the long run. I'll state flatly most bosses die in under three minutes, and I think they need to adjust Affliction DoTs to tick faster. Speeding up the rate at which they tick is perhaps the only way to balance us out with the other classes on trash and short lived bosses especially.

I can't see level 80 content right now but I can tell without a doubt Affliction does significant damage, as does demonology, and destruction. What I don't see is the rotation being simple for Warlocks. In the Affliction tree you should have a degree in spell weaving, and in the Destruction tree you need a doctorate in it. You just have to know what to hit when depending on the number of variables up at any given moment - this adds a lot of "skill" to the class - but at the same time makes me feel like Blizzard class designers did this just as a wink and nod to the "One button Warlock" etc.

The one button Warlock days are clearly over, but the direction the class has gone in is unusual, but I will not say it is cruel. At 80 I think things will balance out.

So short version: Yes, Affliction damage takes some time, you are effed on trash, and at level 80 you should see nice figures.

I found this nice post on Eradication, and as to why so many Wotlk locks are speccing into only one point of it...

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Eradication needs changed. Blue please read.

Just for some reference material which maybe of use:

I ran a load of tests over about ~2 minutes each last night to check out a 02 (imp CoA) / 03 (Imp imp) / 56 (Backdraft, imp SL and F&B) spec.

Rotation was:
(CoA)
(CB)
Immo
Incin.....
Conflag
CB
...repeat from Immo, refreshing CoA when required.

Nice fun rotation with my only gripe being no BD impact on immo (even CB was GCD capped :/).

DPS in my T5/entry T6 gear was about 1250+145 reliably with no buffs outside of firestone and armor. Funny thing is I only realised afterwards that I was using rank one conflag (aint trained spells in so long ><) so the dps should have been slightly higher.

Naturally i noobed it up and missed conflag every once in a while but other than that it was a pretty reliable rotation and so much better than our one button spam.

I ran one or two tests with corruption and found that it dropped my dps by ~50-100. This would be mitigated by taking Imp Corr talents but I really don't think the extra uptime on MC is worth the hassle of a second DoT. Since we're dropping a curse anyway I would either go with a spec based on Doom + Corruption, or no Corruption and CoA at 70. Backdraft is fun so i'm going to stick with it but really I don't know how much difference it will make. But if the difference is outside of the range on noise I think it's worth taking as the rotation is not that hard.

Any thoughts on Doom+Corr vs CoA only?

Apologies if I missed it while reading the thread, but how are threat levels in raids now? I'm specifically wondering if
Improved Drain Soul can be bypassed when going down the affliction tree (say picking up Imp CoA and Amp Curse
in the lower part of the tree). I've read anecdotal evidence that threat was much easier now, but haven't been able to
find any hard data. Is the 10% reduction still necessary?

I'm not catching any kind of threat whatsoever and have a tough time pulling off a tank - even trying to do so intentionally. If the tank is pretty good, you should not really see huge threat problems - at least in my experience so far. Tanking is a lot better, and it nets us some serious DPS time now as a result.

I have a question regarding glyphs , using a destru 2/7/51 without F&B, and using CoA+immo to proc MC.

Which glyphs should i use please?

So, i tried 56/0/5 yesterday and I had major problem. When I laid my full dot rotation on a boss, CoA, Haunt, Immo, UA, SL, SB rinse repeat....my aggro was maxed capped before I could reach Shadow Bolt. So, I was thinking did anyone encountered the same problem with me? When I held back my dots, my dps is still not reaching compared to destro because i'm threat-capped and afraid to lay my full dots. If this is the case, how do we maximise our dps?

Additionally, for aff, what are the spell rotations you guys just use for trashes?

Are people finding that you have enough mana return in raids now that you could potentially pass on Improved Soul Leach? Our server is pretty messed up and we haven't been able to raid yet.

I haven't had to lifetap on a boss yet i don't think. I managed to pull off 2700 dps on brutallus using 2/3/56 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The bosses are horribly easy now. we got brut in 3.25 min and kalec and felmyst in around 2 min. were on our way to the twins right now.

One thing i noticed was that my imp was unable to attack brutallus, hunter pets were unable to as well.

edit - well i did have to lifetap once or twice but mana isn't as much of an issue as i had expected. Also that dps number is based on recount, i dunno how accurate that is.

Majorly disappointed with Warlocks when compared to other classes at the moment. I've been doing some dummy testing for a couple of hours, and the best DPS I can come up with (with a healer for taps) is the 56/0/5 with Felhunter or Imp Affliction build. Casting UA -> Corr -> CoA -> Immo -> SL -> Haunt -> SB -> Repeat, I can get to around 1800 DPS. As the 2/3/56 Fire Destruction build, I had a hard time breaking 1650 DPS. This is with basically the best gear in the game (full Sunwell). We'll see how it translates into raid DPS, but I was in the 2400-2800 range pre-3.0, and I imagine I'm right around there now. Not really a buff, while we've been seeing Fury Warriors doing 3600 DPS on Brut, and Hunters/Mages/Rogues/Pallies over 3000 DPS.

I tried 2 specs last night in Black Temple.

Afliction, Fire Destro and Now I am about to try demonology. My team has some t6 mostly badge level gear, same for me, 2 parts t6, etc, and I am hitting around 1300 dps no matter which spec I try, hunters are pulling in around 2400dps warriors 2000dps rogues 1900dps. And BT felt a bit like running a 10 man kara in full t6...

I feel like my Lock is broken and violated, I really hope it gets sorted one way or another... Least I have a shadow priest

Am liking the changes to Spellstone/Firestone though.

So, my guild just finished up through Felmyst,
On brut my dps was a decent 2100. The problem was the top 3-5 dpsers were sitting at 3k+ with some hitting over 3.4k.
On Felmyst I was sitting ust over 1800, but the mage and the rogue were at 2.4 and 2.7k
on Kalec I was at about 2.2k - got second place here.
I raided affliction, my spec was 56/0/5

My rotation was haunt, cor, sl, coa, ua, immo, Sbolt x2 -repeat + add in NF procs.
I managed to keep up all dots with some slight error -

any critiques on the spec/rotation -for better results?

I am at over 1450 sp buffed,
242 haste, 175 hit, 27%crit