Haunt seems to only be critting 50% of the time that it otherwise should. I was getting 33% for ShadowBolt over a SWP clear, but only 15% for Haunt. Revenge of the RNG is always a possibility, but the almost 2-1 ratio of those numbers over an entire night leads me to believe otherwise.
I was able to get about 1500 dps on a target dummy self buffed. My affliction dps on the dummy was about 1450-1480 tops. Im guessing as well with the scaling of destruction it should out DPS affliction in raids pretty easily. I was able to try it out last night in BT on illidan and was able to still pull off about 1.1k dps. Being that I was in my SR gear and I couldn't use fire spells in P2 I think it worked fairly well. I'll have to try it out on some other fights in BT tonight.
My rotation was CoE>corruption>immolate>incinerate
had imp out on defensive
It seems that the written definition of Everlasting Affliction changed in the latest patch. Has its functionality stayed the same?
Previously, it provided an IMMENSE coefficient increase to UA and Corruption (25% and 30% respectively).
EDIT:
Old description referred to each tick which matched the behavior:
UA has 5 ticks so its spell dmg coeff increased 5 * TalentPoints * 1% = 25%
Corruption has 6 ticks (by default) so its spell dmg coeff increased 6 * TalentPoints * 1% = 30%
EDIT2:
I'm wondering if my sim is modeling Siphon Life correctly: It uses the same method as UA/Corruption:
SL has 10 ticks so its spell dmg coeff increased 10 * TalentPoints * 1% = 50%
Does this coef increase suffer the 50% reduction due to it returning health, putting the coef increase at 25%?
It never actually worked the way you listed, with the 25% and 30% increases. That was actually a bug. For quite some time now it has been working as intended, with just a flat 5% damage bonus increase. The change in patch 3.0.3 is just to fix the tooltip to reflect that.
I personally fell in love with addon ghost pulse. Ghost: Pulse 2 : WoWInterface Downloads : Ace: Combat
In arena and in pve the little icon blink that tells you a spell has come off cooldown is awesome for juggling your cooldowns. That way every time you see CB blink you know you can use it next instead of an incinerate.
I'm using Cooldown Count for this purpose. It has a nice big message that I can position wherever I like, and plays a sound, when a cooldown I specify comes up.
Guys can we please complilate a current collection of known bugs/issues here? The Wow lock forums are their usual pile of steaming usefulness with everyone QQ'ing, and id like to see and pass along a nice looking list of things that we would like to see addressed.
So far i have this but its likely out of date. Please clarify whats fixed and whats not, and anything not on the list as of Live/Beta tests
1) pets not currently inheriting full crit from master. (Seen several reported examples where on the PTR imp was displaying 25% crit, and on live it was still showing like 5%). Does this only take effect when the pet hits a certain level?
2) Chaos Bolt coefficient seems bugged. Several long samples showed it having a coefficient that was higher then a 2.0 cast time but lower then a 2.5 cast time. It's also doing little more damage then incinerate. (70th level samplings...however this probably should remain consistant).
3) Conflag is not benefitting from Ruin.
4) Immolate and Chaos bolt do not seem to be benefitting from backdrafts haste buff.
5) Rain of Fire is benefitting correctly from the + fire talents but hellfire does not.
6) Please clarify for future spellstone/firestone usage.... do channeled spells like hellfire/RoF gain from the direct damage stone or the Damage over time stone? How bout SoC?
1. Pet never inherited master crit. Pet crit was bugged such that under certain circumstances (I think at some point in this thread is was posted that mounting and dismounting did it) it had ~master crit. But solo was pretty much just 5% (23-25% raid buffed).
My own bugs:
1. Shadow Embrace, doesn't stack, only 1 warlock gets the benefit from it. Still alive and kicking from what I noticed on Beta 3.0.3. Might have been mistaken as the only numbers I could check were Naxx25 boss fights (partial resists skew the numbers).
2. Pandemic still not benefiting from on target +crit debuffs.
3. JoW, while not warlock is still a very big bug (or maybe intended now). I've been getting about 1/4 the procs hunters get. In theory it should be max 25% more for hunters with a 4 sec CD on it.
It never actually worked the way you listed, with the 25% and 30% increases. That was actually a bug. For quite some time now it has been working as intended, with just a flat 5% damage bonus increase. The change in patch 3.0.3 is just to fix the tooltip to reflect that.
Thanks fallenman! I'm just juggling too many classes, I guess......
What do you think of the Pandemic mechanics? Would you consider the player-only crit contribution expected behavior or a bug?
3. JoW, while not warlock is still a very big bug (or maybe intended now). I've been getting about 1/4 the procs hunters get. In theory it should be max 25% more for hunters with a 4 sec CD on it.
Unfortunately for us, that's pretty much working as intended. Hunters and other classes like enhancement shaman hit their targets far more often than spellcasters. Once you are outside of that 4 second cooldown, they are going to have their procs go off much faster because they will almost always get several hits almost immediately. A caster might have a second or two before they hit the target after the cooldown wears off, and then if you don't get the proc it's another two or three seconds before you can try again. As such it spends much more time overall between procs. However, the flip side is as a 2% total mana buff, casters will have much larger mana pools than those classes, and so should see total mana gains that are similar or even higher. The current bugged version of JoW on Live now is quite fun, but is returning far too much mana; I got about 9k mana back per minute, I've seen enhancement shaman getting four times that much.
CoA not benefiting from Spellstone.
CoD not benefiting from Spellstone/Firestone or haunt. Depends whether it's considered a DoT or a direct damage spell.
Agreed on the lack of conditioning macros. I'm having the same problem with my rogue and using Shadow Dance. There just isn't any way for macros to take buffs/debuffs as conditions anymore. =/
You can still do what I always did for my druid's MF spam macro:
Not sure exactly what the reset should be, given the 12 second cooldown doesn't start until the cast finishes (so maybe 13 or 14 would work better). I always used a macro similar to this to put rank 12 moonfire on the target, then spam rank 11 (so the DoT still ticked). The reset sets it back to chaos bolt when it's off cooldown.
Originally Posted by Darkmantle
I personally fell in love with addon ghost pulse. Ghost: Pulse 2 : WoWInterface Downloads : Ace: Combat
In arena and in pve the little icon blink that tells you a spell has come off cooldown is awesome for juggling your cooldowns. That way every time you see CB blink you know you can use it next instead of an incinerate.
I use Cooldown Timers 3. It's the same idea, but also has bars timing the cooldowns.
Re: 0/13+x/43+y builds. I think this build has a lot of simplicity and potential, I'm going to do some Dummy testing comparing this build to x/3/51+y builds tonight if I get the chance.
Not sure exactly what the reset should be, given the 12 second cooldown doesn't start until the cast finishes (so maybe 13 or 14 would work better). I always used a macro similar to this to put rank 12 moonfire on the target, then spam rank 11 (so the DoT still ticked). The reset sets it back to chaos bolt when it's off cooldown.
That macro will cast Incinerate forever and never cast another Chaos Bolt. Reset timers start counting from when you stop pushing the button, so if you never go 12 seconds without pushing that button, it will never reset.
It never actually worked the way you listed, with the 25% and 30% increases. That was actually a bug. For quite some time now it has been working as intended, with just a flat 5% damage bonus increase. The change in patch 3.0.3 is just to fix the tooltip to reflect that.
Hm, I read a conflicting report on the beta forums, from Thanatosia of <KTF> on the Northrend realm, on 10/17.
"Still seems to be adding the bonus per Tick.
I applied Siphon Life on dummies, and reaplied it after putting points one by one into EA, and the damage seemed to be going up by about 25pts per tick per talent point spent on EA.
I had 1776 +shadow when I did the test, wich means EA should be adding about 17.7 damage per tick per Talent Point. I went ahead and droped talent points into Maladiction and Shadow Mastery on my way down to EA, and those talents, in addition to Glyph of Siphon Life, bumps the 17.76 damage from 1% of my spellpower up to around the 25pts per tick I was seeing on the dummies."
So probably need a little more testing to see the expected behavior. Moreover, according to Wowhead, Everlasting Affliction applies a "Apply flat modifier (24): 5", while empowered corruption applies a "Apply flat modifier (24): 6", and we know empowered corruption gives 36% at max rank (6%*6). So it would seem that expected behavior would be the 25%/30% damage increases.
Re: 0/13+x/43+y builds. I think this build has a lot of simplicity and potential, I'm going to do some Dummy testing comparing this build to x/3/51+y builds tonight if I get the chance.
I'm wondering if this build won't be better for T4/Badge level players like myself. Attempting to manage Backdraft, CoA/Corruption, Life Tapping and Chaos Bolt without haste is somewhat excruciating.
One of the odd potential niches of the build is actually "mage" tanking Krosh, or as an alternative Leo tank spec. The combination of Improved Demon Armor, Nether Protection and Soul Link seems quite powerful. If there are similar encounters in WotLK I can imagine x/13+y/43+z being good for the job.
What I lack in intelligence I make up for in verbosity.
I'm wondering if this build won't be better for T4/Badge level players like myself. Attempting to manage Backdraft, CoA/Corruption, Life Tapping and Chaos Bolt without haste is somewhat excruciating.
One of the odd potential niches of the build is actually "mage" tanking Krosh, or as an alternative Leo tank spec. The combination of Improved Demon Armor, Nether Protection and Soul Link seems quite powerful. If there are similar encounters in WotLK I can imagine x/13+y/43+z being good for the job.
Was doing 2600 DPS before I was burned, ended up with 50% crit rate on incinerate, was casting COE and not COA. The spec isn’t bad but it’s not great, it will do decently if you want to keep things simple until the patch. Chaos bolt lock did 2200 before he died and Felguard ruin lock was about 2400. Top DPS was a hunter at 3400 with some rogues at 3200 ISH
Both Immo and Corr were being pushed off, no aff lock in the raid, no mookins either, only 1 Spriest. The debuff limit really needs to be looked into or aff locks are really going to have a hard time in the future.
On the plus side I ended the fight with full mana, and I never had to lifetap.
Blizzard seemed to acknowledge the DPS lose of Demonic Empowerment so its being taken of the GBC. Lets all hope for a similar attention to Conflag/backdraft issue
We compared this talent to other talents, such as Bestial Wrath which is not on the GCD, and decided to remove Demonic Empowerment from the GCD. The potential damage loss should no longer be an issue.
Demonic Empowerment isn't really remotely comparable to Bestial Wrath though, on the GCD or off it. If you compare them side by side as 31-pointers, DE is ridiculously poor. +20% attack speed doesn't compare to a +50% straight damage buff, especially if you consider the un-cc'able additional effect being absolute, not akin to "Oh your felguard can't be stopped.. oh, did we mention a fellow warlock can banish him and negate your 31-pointer? Or that a paladin can fear him and make your cooldown useless?".
Also, Melbuframa, would that not be considered rather a weak dps spec?
I don't really understand how a chaos-bolt lock did less dps assuming comparable gear given that they have more abilities avaliable (and talents which improve their dps), unless they're simply less skilled/lagged post-patch. I'm looking at Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft as a raiding build after finding Demonology a little cumbersome, especially with Demonic Pact being imo weak.
Demonic Empowerment isn't really remotely comparable to Bestial Wrath though, on the GCD or off it. If you compare them side by side as 31-pointers, DE is ridiculously poor. +20% attack speed doesn't compare to a +50% straight damage buff, especially if you consider the un-cc'able additional effect being absolute, not akin to "Oh your felguard can't be stopped.. oh, did we mention a fellow warlock can banish him and negate your 31-pointer? Or that a paladin can fear him and make your cooldown useless?".
Also, Melbuframa, would that not be considered rather a weak dps spec?
I don't really understand how a chaos-bolt lock did less dps assuming comparable gear given that they have more abilities avaliable (and talents which improve their dps), unless they're simply less skilled/lagged post-patch. I'm looking at Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft as a raiding build after finding Demonology a little cumbersome, especially with Demonic Pact being imo weak.
He did less DPS because he died to burn or slash; someone forgot to heal him or somecrap. 3 min fight he died after 2 min or so. Yes it’s not a great DPS spec but I have hit 2800 with it and it passes the time till they fix some of our issues and the server lag issues. Plus some people asked about the x/13/x specs so I figured I would play with it.
I played the x/x/5x Chaos bolt spec the first week and had similar numbers while basically having no idea about rotations, ill probably try out aff next week but the debuff slot issues have me worried
And I need to correct myself the felguard lock was not felguard/ruin he was Meta
I was able to get about 1500 dps on a target dummy self buffed. My affliction dps on the dummy was about 1450-1480 tops. Im guessing as well with the scaling of destruction it should out DPS affliction in raids pretty easily. I was able to try it out last night in BT on illidan and was able to still pull off about 1.1k dps. Being that I was in my SR gear and I couldn't use fire spells in P2 I think it worked fairly well. I'll have to try it out on some other fights in BT tonight.
My rotation was CoE>corruption>immolate>incinerate
had imp out on defensive
That's just the normal destro spec minus cnoflag/backdraft/chaos bolt and plus improved fel armor. I really doubt 30% increase on fel armor (which is 30 spelldmg and a bit more through spirit) outweighs even only chaos bolt. I don't think it's useful to go deep into demon for a pure fire spec until 80 when you can get 30/41 and actually get master demon for 5% fire dmg/5% crit. Before that the stuff in the demon tree does not really seem good enough to justify spending that many points.
In PvE, overall, we just think a lot of classes benefitted from getting the warlock buffs a little more than the locks benefited from getting everyone else's buffs. So we decided to just buff lock damage across the board (which will also help in PvP somewhat). Rather than change damage and coefficients of a lot of different ranks of spells, we just inflated talents that we were almost certain you'd already have. Shadow Mastery, Demonic Tactics and Emberstorm were all increased by 1% per rank for 5% total.
I found that decision somewhat alarming. Instead if fixing lackluster talents (like the whole Conflag/Backdraft/F&B line, for example) they chose to simply buff damage by 5%. I hope there is still enough time left before release for them to have a look at talent interaction.
Actually, I found the volley of responses by Ghostcrawler on the Warlock boards to be a real breath of fresh air. I agree that a simple buff to damage is not quite the totality of fixes that we would like to see, but in other threads, Ghostcrawler indicated that:
They will look at possibly removing Immolate from the Backdraft effect, ie: It no longer consumes charges or gains the cast time bonus.
They will re-examine Fire and Brimstone
The recent nerf to the Glyph of Soulwell is a precursor to a significant update to the shard system
They are aware of the disparity between the warlock CoE and corresponding debuffs from other classes. They do not neccessarily consider that disparity a problem, but it's on the radar.
They are aware of the number of complaints regarding the complexity of maintaining Affliction DPS in a real raid scenario. They're not convinced that this is a major issue yet, but they are keeping an eye on it.
This is such a radical departure from the pre-existing: "You're fine. Stop complaining." responses that we've had from the developers that I am starting to look forward to forthcoming updates again.
I may still disagree with some of the design choices they have made for us, but I like the way they are starting to look at resolving the more egregiously nonsensical parts of our class.
EDIT: Missed a point in my list
Last edited by Abominatus_DMF : 10/22/08 at 4:24 AM.
Hm, I read a conflicting report on the beta forums, from Thanatosia of <KTF> on the Northrend realm, on 10/17.
So probably need a little more testing to see the expected behavior. Moreover, according to Wowhead, Everlasting Affliction applies a "Apply flat modifier (24): 5", while empowered corruption applies a "Apply flat modifier (24): 6", and we know empowered corruption gives 36% at max rank (6%*6). So it would seem that expected behavior would be the 25%/30% damage increases.
Rats! The post from fallenman seemed confident bordering upon arrogance....... I didn't think anybody would take a stance like that unless they were 100% sure.
Of course, I just put out a new version of the sim......
Can any other PTR/Beta folks help confirm the sp coeff behavior of Everlasting Affliction? I want to get a "fix" out ASAP if necessary.
The changes to Shadow Mastery, Demonic Tactics and Emberstorm are probably temporary fixes, to hide the fundamental flaws with warlocks for now. What is positive is that we are finally getting some attetion for the problems that have been pointed out for months. Will be interesting to see where it lands and the time frame involved.
I suspect these changes will be reverted when other talents get worked out.
Just saw an interesting notion, 30/0/41 or 31/0/40. Id lean for the former of course, Sbolt spam with Corro and CoA. Any ability to see how the math would work out with the incoming +15% SM change?
I really like the idea of a 30/0/41 spec. Put up Corruption, Siphon life and a curse. Keep immolate up, conflag it before it expires. Spam Shadowbolt. Sounds fun to me, I don't know exactly what the rotation would be, but i like the idea of using those spells. Maybe its just me. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft or something like it?
On the subject of pvp (Okay, i know a lot don't care but i care about both aspects of the game), I was worried about where to go with 20 points if you go for a 51 pointer. Im currently 9/52/0 and its good in pvp every 3 minutes... Otherwise Melee carve me to pieces. I was thinking of this after a while for pvp at 80
Affliction mostly for healing ability, and mobility, UA for anti-dispellers. Points in Demo self explanatory. And faster immolates shadowbolts with ruin and everybody's favorite Shadowburn. Now is spreading across 3 trees spreading talents a bit thin? I once specc'd 23/17/21 and found versatility was great but it had no punch. Also would like 6 more points in Demo to get instant summon... But ideas anyone?
I can't believe I'm doing this, I honestly hate myself for doing it but I've scanned these last few pages and I still feel very clueless. I do not play a warlock so this theorycrafting leaves me more than a touch confused, the only reason I'm in here, is that I'm trying to help out a guild warlock. My main is an enchancement shamen and I'm very close follower of that forum and it takes 100% attention to follow theory on that forum, so I if I can have a moment of time I have few questions.
From what I've gather the two more popular builds are 0/13/48 and 2/13/46.
Conflag, Backdraft, Fire and Brimestone and Chaos Bolt are considered undesirable talents for a pure DPS build.
It seems that a fire lock wins out over a shadow lock but the difference seems to be very minor. The main advantage I see is by being fire you don't have to pick up imp shadowbolt which saves you 5 talent points.
ROF can be better dps for a destro lock than SoC.
Are the above assumptions correct, and how do the lock weapon buffs compare to wizard oils?
10/21/08, 11:06 AM
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