Is there a reason you dont have any hunters there? Seems you forgot MD shot, traps, Ferocious Inspiration, Hunting Party, Expose Weakness and Imp. Hunters mark.

Not to mention that positively awesome utility talent that returns mana/rage/energy/runic power to your party. I practically salivated over that one, and my hunter is lvl 33.


On a more warlock related note though; What if Fel Synergy is kept healing to you but is given a higher percentage return?

Keeping in mind that unless they make it function radically different, Drain Life would heal it, and Drain Life is not a total DPS stop the way health funnel is, so that even for warlocks without Soul Siphon with proper % return we could self heal our pet that way. Add to that the fact that using Lifetap we can - depending on the fight - pretty much make healers heal us anyway.

Though healing on our damage dealt is way better.

edit: Of course, though no one commented on it yet, I feel obliged to point out that I for some reason mixed "damage done to you" with "healing done to you". I have no idea why, though I'm inclined to blame it on simply finding "damage dealt to you" so outlandish my mind refused to believe it (seeing as I then read something about it just healing soul link damage and felt like I understood it, my powers of denial appear quite impressive).

Aww... was so late when I was typing it out, hunters blanked out then... ok scrub the rogues and one DK, replace them with 2x hunters :P

How is that even remotely perfect? 2 Mages for Winter's Grasp? One for improved scorch is probably more likely =p Winter grasp is unnecessary the uptime even with two mages would be low and it is only 2% hit.

2 Warlocks? you need atleast 3, Affliction with malediction and felhunter for +8% int, Demonology for +10% spell dmg, and a third that has an imp out. That is minimum.

Moonkin Aura is probably strong enough you want one for each caster dps group

Elemental Shaman is probably strong enough you want one for each dps caster group


Mages, Rogues, Hunters all getting basically no slots in the ideal raid. Not that bad? =P

I think it's largely impossible to find the ideal group so far, especially because we don't know how group haste buffs will stack. The most recent blue policy is that group haste buffs don't stack, but that actually negates so many group buffs that we don't know what classes will actually be valuable.

If we were to assume that all buffs were useful, then I think you'd want moonkin in a healer group more than anything else.

In every caster group. I think it is safe to assume that at the very least the totems stack with heroism/moonkin/pi.

And what happens when we have a 10 healer fight? Melee get removed from the fight most likely as they only buff each other. Heaven save us if the demo +10% spell power stacks.

You are dreaming if you think 2% vt is better than a 5% crit aura + a 20% haste proc that would have over 50% uptime. Unless shadowpriest dps is at near mage levels they won't be more than a 1 of per-raid.

Guys, I hasten to remind you that this is the Warlock discussion. There is at least one thread about raid building elsewhere on the forums, so can we stick to the warlockery for now?

I don't see how it isn't relevant to warlock wotlk interests to know how many raid slots they will have, what spec they are forced to be, and what party/raid buffs they will have. Knowing you are gonna have +15% crit from raid/party buffs kinda tips the balance from haunt to ruin for example.

For Destro, perhaps. But for an affliction lock, VT will end up better. Crit = lol and dots are already at gcd cap.

You are a hunter and you know nothing, 2% vt is worth like 50dps for an affliction warlock. Just the improved moonkin aura part of the aura is almost certainly worth far more than infinite mana would be. I don't know why you are trying to say 100-150mp5 > 10-15% haste, and 5% crit.

The memo about their not stacking? I sure did miss that memo because I don't believe anyone has posted it. EVEN IF they didn't stack you still have 5% crit, and something like a 65% uptime on 10% more haste than the totem. Let me switch to affliction on the warlock spreadsheet and see what 175mp5 gets me. (Oh and pretty much the only place where spriests pull 1600 dps is on brutallus, moonkin aura is equally useful in all circumstances)

It gets me.. 41dps.
Moonkin aura gets me 82 dps.
5% haste gets me 76 dps.

So moonkin is at the very least 3 times better than a 2% vt shadowpriest for an affliction lock, the gap is larger for any other spec. Not to mention only having one spriest in the raid raises isb uptime and grants another 35 dps in a 3 warlock 1spriest situation (over 3/2).

Again you aren't well versed on anything, go away if you don't know what you are talking about.

And you still think destro warlocks are going to be shadow... you're funny.

Does your magical spreadsheet actually have values for WotLK spells? I'd like to see it. Spell costs are rising quite a bit. That means you get to enjoy lifetapping even more!

Spell haste speeding up lifetap is gonna help on a lot on that front. You know, lifetapping 10 or 20% faster? It doesn't need wotlk values for me to know that no matter how much time I spend lifetapping X mp5 is gonna help me the same amount.

Let's see the math then. Show me what a 10% haste proc is worth in mp5.

I fail to see why I need to provide math that shows that 10% haste > 175 mp5. If 5% haste is currently twice as good as 175mp5, why would it not continue to be far superior in wotlk, if we are lifetapping more in the future than we are now that only increases the value of haste relative to mp5.

Incorrect, you have no idea what you are talking about. You need 50% spell haste to get ua, corruption, immolate, and siphonlife to the global cooldown. Assuming the new version of amplify curse allows curses to go to .5 second gcd you need 50% spell haste for that aswell. You spend far more than 50% of you time casting shadowbolt as affliction.

This whole argument is pretty dumb and revolves around a raid setting with a lot of things that are not set in stone or are simply not known or known well enough until they get tested. Can't you find something more constructive to talk about?

Coward. Still can't provide math to back up your claims, can you? Or are you afraid that 10% haste is going to come out inferior. Let me guess, you're one of the idiots who thinks destro pots are higher dps than mana pots for a warlock.

When you do your calculations to determine the value of haste in terms of mp5, do not forget to account for the itemization changes in wotlk. Right now it appears that cloth caster gear calls for you to make a choice between crit and spirit, and if you stack your precious vanilla wow dps stats, your spirit will be abysmal, and thus, your lifetaps will not scale as quickly as your mana consumption.

Get a clue.

Edit: Snowy, Flamingcloud's got a rather large ego, but nothing to back it up. That kind of poster is disgusting in that s/he will always make claims without support, and when called out on it, will continue to whine incessantly.

Did we forget about the complete overpoweredness of Imp Soul Leech already? Who says you'll even need to Lifetap?

You are the most ignorant, vexing person I have ever met on ej, I know I am gonna get an infraction, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were gone completely. I can't believe you are insisting I prove 10% haste is > 175mp5 when the spreadsheet(which us warlocks believe is accurate) calls 5% haste twice as good as the mp5, so 10% haste would be over 4 times as good. Even if the ratios change there is no way a stat is gonna go from 4 times better to worse.

Working out the math using all wotlk values is near impossible and would take dozens of hours, and even then wouldn't be accurate because I don't know how much spirit we will have on the beginning raid gear. If I worked out the numbers using the level 70 version you would just say that isn't relevant.

I have plenty to back it up, including 2 top 10 Brutallus world wide dps results even with a burn.

Nope, I was just talking in relation to affliction locks, destruction locks are going to have infinite mana(assuming BoW, and Jow, and imp spirit, etc, won't be infinite in non-raid situations) if they go live as 9% personal vt.

Affliction/Demonology locks.

But you're right, if things stay as they did in TBC, x/21/40+10 or something similar then with imp soul leach you'd probably be well off.

That makes you wonder though. Blizzard changed lifetap mechanics to force spirit upon warlocks, but if soul leach goes live that good, then destro may not even care for spirit save for what is completely unavoidable on their gear.