I think Demonic Sacrifice needs an additional change to it so that the buff takes place 'when your pet dies' as well as the current activatable buff. I always thought the intent of the spell was
A) To have a means of making use of the pet if, for some reason, you can't use it (boss which insta-gibs pets)
B) Its about to die (opposing arena team is kicking its ass), you can't save it, but you can still make use of it by sacrificing it.
B isn't quite as explicit, nor does it seem worth blowing DS on the off-chance it MIGHT live, because either way you're going to try to summon a new pet again either way. But then it dies anyway and you missed out on your chance to pop DS on it. If it was automatic, it would make it a little more friendly to the Demo Warlock.
Actually I rather like this idea...
Perhaps along with the normal (and now weaker) active sacrifices, the death of the pets could give a short-duration buff that would help the 'lock in his time of need (i.e. pet just got gibbed, I'm in big trouble). These short-duration buffs would *not* be overwritten by a new pet being summoned, but would help (along with Fel Dom) to cover our weakness while the pet is down.
These could either be pet-specific, or perhaps something like the 20sec DS buff that replaced the old skill for a short while.
Perhaps along with the normal (and now weaker) active sacrifices, the death of the pets could give a short-duration buff that would help the 'lock in his time of need (i.e. pet just got gibbed, I'm in big trouble). These short-duration buffs would *not* be overwritten by a new pet being summoned, but would help (along with Fel Dom) to cover our weakness while the pet is down.
These could either be pet-specific, or perhaps something like the 20sec DS buff that replaced the old skill for a short while.
I rather like this more. The 'newly gone' DS was helpful to sacrifice the pet for a speed boost to get a new one back out before you got asskicked. I imagine they tried that to more benefit scenario B, at the expense of scenario A. A combination of the two abilities would be a good addition.
Maybe that's what they're planning for Master Conjuror?
There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.
I don't see Metamorphosis as working any better for Destruction in its current incarnation as it does for Demonology. The only talents that would work with it would be Molten Core (maybe) and Emberstorm. The other 42+ talents would be wasted.
Thematically it also wouldn't mesh as well. It would be similar to putting Haunt as the 51pt Demonology talent, or Chaos Bolt as the 51pt Affliction talent. They'd obviously be out of place in both form and function.
Lore-wise it was originally attached to a Night Elf Rogue type guy with Mana Burn, Immolation Aura and high dodge chance. It makes as much sense as you want it to make. Destruction to me means getting all pissed off and blowing stuff up with incredible ferocity while people go 'what the sam bloody hell was that?!'. That settles my mind for Metamorphosis at the bottom of Destruction quite nicely.
The difference is, you don't depend on the pet as Destruction even half as much as you do as Demonology. Even with the new Imp, it'll only count for about 15% of your personal DPS (totally ballpark, but about 10% himself and 5% through Empowered Imp giving you more crits). They could easily make that kind of damage up in 45 seconds because you're not talking about comparing it to Ruin. The Imp has pretty much already won the DS vs Chaos Bolt war, but the Meta vs Ruin war still rages.
There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.
I don't see Metamorphosis ever being in Destro, since Demo is more of the PvP tree and that is a place where the talent really shines.
I am looking forward to seeing the new Master Conjurer to what they can do to make it worth taking instead of one of the top five worst talents.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I thought we'd gotten past the whole 'this is a PvE tree, while this is a PvP tree' thing. Blizzard are obviously trying to give everything a decent shot at both this time around.
There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.
I think the bold move would be to make a variation of Metamorphosis the 51 point talent for every tree. There's no reason the affliction demon couldn't have haunt, the destro demon have chaos bolt, and give the demo demon something else. I'm going to find it incredibly depressing if the one thing we've wanted for so long becomes a gimmick talent that's seen as rarely as Infernals are.
The best solution would be to just make it a baseline skill. If they do that, you wouldn't have to balance around ruin, it could be a typical dps timer, maybe with a built-in heroism type effect for the raid as well, and you'd get to break it out for 45 seconds each fight no matter what your spec. If you really want the 51 point demo talent to be related, have it reduce the cooldown by like 2 minutes and add abilities.
The baseline ability idea has a lot of merit. 'Locks as a whole do lack any sort of overdrive button that can be used in situations when things are getting hectic, and everyone having Meta as that button would allow everyone to have some of the uniqueness and cool-factor of changing into a big asskicking demon. How about someting like this:
Metamorphosis
Level 80
45 sec duration, 3 min cooldown
Small survivability buff (like what's currently implemented)
Abilities
Shadowbolt
Cleave
Instant Melee attack
Heroic Leap (or whatever they call it for the demon)
Immolation
Additional Benefits
Chaos Bolt: Chaos bolt may be cast while in Demon Form and counts as both fire/shadow damage. Overall spell damage or haste increased.
Haunt: Haunt, CoA and UA may be cast while in Demon Form. Overall spell damage or haste increased.
Shadow Strike: Shadow Strike may be cast while in Demon Form, Duration increased, melee damage recieves a buff, pet remains out.
This would essentially let *all* specs benefit from demon form, but those who invested in 51 point talents would get unique benefits befitting their tree. The benefits for the three may need to be tweaked, but I think I like this idea the best out of any yet. Why shouldn't all 'locks get something as spectacular as Metamorphosis?
Edit: Improved Metamorphosis Removed.
The idea of a 51 point talent based solely on a level 80 skill is not possible. Instead I've come up with a new 51 point talent as an example for the Demo talent (i.e. this can change as needed into something useful for demo):
Shadow Strike
Requires 50 points in Demonology
15 yrd range. 20 second cooldown.
Deals instant shadow damage and makes the target more vulnerable to shadow and physical damage for 10 seconds.
Last edited by Xentik : 07/31/08 at 5:56 PM.
Reason: Imp Meta doesn't work as is.
Lore-wise it was originally attached to a Night Elf Rogue type guy with Mana Burn, Immolation Aura and high dodge chance. It makes as much sense as you want it to make. Destruction to me means getting all pissed off and blowing stuff up with incredible ferocity while people go 'what the sam bloody hell was that?!'. That settles my mind for Metamorphosis at the bottom of Destruction quite nicely.
The difference is, you don't depend on the pet as Destruction even half as much as you do as Demonology. Even with the new Imp, it'll only count for about 15% of your personal DPS (totally ballpark, but about 10% himself and 5% through Empowered Imp giving you more crits). They could easily make that kind of damage up in 45 seconds because you're not talking about comparing it to Ruin. The Imp has pretty much already won the DS vs Chaos Bolt war, but the Meta vs Ruin war still rages.
I'm not talking about Lore, but Theme.
Affliction is centered around DoTs and Curses. It's in both the name and the talents.
Demonology is centered around Demons, their use, abuse, and nature.
Destruction is centered around brutal, direct firepower.
That's at least my perception, and certainly isn't anything definitive. However, I feel that the talents naturally lend themselves toward a particular mentality and playstyle all their own.
From that perspective Metamorphosis in its current form makes less sense for Destruction than for Demonology, at least how talents and matters currently stand. WotLK Destruction is very fire focused, while Metamorphosis is melee/shadow focused (not to mention the demon theme).
I'm sure it could be shoehorned into Destruction, but if we're going to make big changes anyway I think the time is better spent balancing it within the Demonology tree. Demonology is too cool to let something like Metamorphosis get away.
Having Meta being at the bottom of all the trees, but with different abilities strikes me as a fine Idea. It screws with any sort of "pure hybrid" build 20/20/31 or 30/30/11 or whatever, but really, who cares about the silly people?
Since we're not getting (and likely won't ever get, from the current Drivel we're getting out of Bliz) proper use of Crit/haste by affliction spells *and* affliction spec's stuck casting shadow bolts for significant portion of their dps, I'm honestly surprised deep affliction didn't get *something* that makes shadow bolt scale obscenely based on number of dots on the mob.
Of course, this is probably due to current Destro tree's ugly setup of "shadow bolt stuff early, fire crap early and late". As it stands Any spec can get an overwhelming amount of the Shadow bolt talents for 21 points; meaning there can't be any significant bonuses to the spell in other trees.
Picture this however: Destro tree redone. Each tier has one of the following templates: Shadow talent AND fire talent, Shadow/fire talent(s), and/or Utility talent(s). Both fire and shadow have solid paths top to bottom. For the Real "I wish I'd rolled a Mage" types, you could run both paths, setting up for ultimate mastery of BOOM, at the expense of dots and pets.
In this way they then can give deep afflict/demo talents that give your bread and butter spell (be it incin or shadow bolt) enhanced scaling, to make up for lack of scaling in your other stuff; while still insuring that one is getting the X/51th of the destro potential you paid for.
Or they can quit being silly buggers and just give Affliction and Demo the same gear scaling as Destro (reducing base damage of course); and give each tree a spammable [something].
I don't see Metamorphosis ever being in Destro, since Demo is more of the PvP tree and that is a place where the talent really shines.
Metamorphosis strikes me as potentially deadly to the user in pvp, thanks to certain skills that becoming a demon makes You vulnerable to.
First, every warlock has Banish. Banish can't be removed by your teammates, and has a longer duration than cyclone.
Second, paladins have a bunch of spells that work against undead....AND DEMONS. Turn Evil, now the paladins can fear YOU. Exorcism, a special anti demon ranged instant cast heavy damage ability. Holy Wrath, a special anti demon instant cast aoe damage and stun ability.
Would have some use against some 2v2 teams, maybe some 3v3 teams, but a high chance of being counter productive in 5v5 and battlegrounds.
Edit: Oh yeah, and you give up certain abilities like, whatever your pet could do (lose spell lock if using a felhunter), fear, demonic circle teleport, etc.
How about Conflag only requiring Immolate on the target, and not consuming it by default (or through a Glyph), while 5/5 Eternal Flames gives Conflag a 20/40/60/80/100% chance of refreshing it instead? Of course, if they chose to do the first via a Glyph, putting 5/5 into Eternal Flames would then make the Glyph useless for anyone going deep enough into Destruction.
It's also a good idea if we have Conflagrate refreshing Immolate, with the only problem being misses, since cooldown allows only one Conflagrate per Immolate. Replacing Backdraft with Eternal Flames looks great. Some point cost adjustments around chain are needed as well.
Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade
I like your two solutions, but I think either way Imp Immolate needs a replacement. Conflagrate would be boosted considerably if we didn't have to spend talent points on a talent that is quickly becoming the prime candidate for "Least Beneficial Destruction Talent".
Starting burst with an instant isn't so bad when we have a second instant to finish with. I'm not a PvP expert, but I'm curious what spells you'd follow the Conflagrate with. Would you save Chaos Bolt for after the hasted spells? Would you spam 3x Searing Pain during the haste or use Shadow Bolt instead?
Improved Immolate can use as simple solution as affecting periodic damage as well, maybe in lower amount. Note that in such case Conflagrate which would base its damage on Immolate periodic damage could already become useful right in place, and already in TBC talent domain.
As for PvP, I don't know, but to me it's rather counter-intuitive to use instant, especially something like Conflagrate in its current state early.
Originally Posted by Vagabond
Picture this however: Destro tree redone. Each tier has one of the following templates: Shadow talent AND fire talent, Shadow/fire talent(s), and/or Utility talent(s). Both fire and shadow have solid paths top to bottom. For the Real "I wish I'd rolled a Mage" types, you could run both paths, setting up for ultimate mastery of BOOM, at the expense of dots and pets.
Cat+Bear works in the same tree, and together on pretty much every single talent in Feral tree for Druids, and in some talents outside. We need to get both schools used, and for best results also something to solve Fire immunities (in hopes that they keep Shadow immunities out).
Speaking of evil Improved Shadow Bolt, my latest idea is:
- Your Shadow Bolt critical strikes increase Shadow and Fire damage dealt to the target by 10% for 15 sec. Critical strikes from your Destruction spells will refresh the effect.
Alternatively Shadow Bolt and its Improved talent may become our Scorch and its Improved talent equivalent. So it's just stacking up to 5 times for a 10% benefit vulnerability to Fire and Shadow that lasts 30 sec. It would still stay with 5 points though, because SB DPS is less behind main nuke, than in case of Scorch. EIther way the talent wouldn't have reasons for everyone to spec into it any more really, because one Warlock doing that would be enough.
[*]Chaos Bolt: Chaos bolt may be cast while in Demon Form and counts as both fire/shadow damage. Overall spell damage or haste increased.
Interesting idea as making Chaos bolt our version of FFB, and at that point take the cooldown off of it, don't make it punch through shields, and voila it can become fire destro's new spam spell and make molten core a lot more useful for pretty much being required to reach the bottom of the tree as fire. Tossing in an incinerate every now and then to refresh immolate. Not a bad concept but would need a little tweaking, and the name still works as i would say mixing the two most damaging magic schools in the game would be fairly chaotic. Heck even keeping the cooldown on would work also, as we would want to cast it each time and just have it force molten core to proc each time or something.
From some of the responses I've been reading about Metamorphosis, it seems like people are heading towards it becoming a core ability. Now, as far as I'm concerned it seems like "45 seconds of glory" seems rather silly, even as a 51 point talent, for reasons already discussed (Ruin for one of those). Could it just not be, say, a core ability that's a Ritual to transform into the Demon (until cancelled or you die), then either give it hyperpowered abilities with no talent interaction, or abilities that go very well with every tree. For instance, Improved Imp could also bump up the Immolation, Improved Voidwalker the Shadow Cleave, etc. In other words, Demonology would apply the bonus directly to the abilities themselves, Destruction is obvious, Affliction would require a bit more work in that it would possibly need more ability support in the form itself (An AE Corruption or DoT? Shadow Cleave behaves like Shadow Bite?)
It's also a good idea if we have Conflagrate refreshing Immolate, with the only problem being misses, since cooldown allows only one Conflagrate per Immolate. Replacing Backdraft with Eternal Flames looks great. Some point cost adjustments around chain are needed as well.
Improved Immolate can use as simple solution as affecting periodic damage as well, maybe in lower amount. Note that in such case Conflagrate which would base its damage on Immolate periodic damage could already become useful right in place, and already in TBC talent domain.
As for PvP, I don't know, but to me it's rather counter-intuitive to use instant, especially something like Conflagrate in its current state early.
Cat+Bear works in the same tree, and together on pretty much every single talent in Feral tree for Druids, and in some talents outside. We need to get both schools used, and for best results also something to solve Fire immunities (in hopes that they keep Shadow immunities out).
Speaking of evil Improved Shadow Bolt, my latest idea is:
- Your Shadow Bolt critical strikes increase Shadow and Fire damage dealt to the target by 10% for 15 sec. Critical strikes from your Destruction spells will refresh the effect.
Alternatively Shadow Bolt and its Improved talent may become our Scorch and its Improved talent equivalent. So it's just stacking up to 5 times for a 10% benefit vulnerability to Fire and Shadow that lasts 30 sec. It would still stay with 5 points though, because SB DPS is less behind main nuke, than in case of Scorch. EIther way the talent wouldn't have reasons for everyone to spec into it any more really, because one Warlock doing that would be enough.
I don't think that we necessarily need to have Shadow and Fire equally powerful in Destruction. Flavorwise, we see plenty of Shadow damage flying out of both the Affliction and Demonology trees. I'm quite content with Shadow being our utility, and Fire being our mainstay. Even with the talents as they are, Shadow's damage is sufficient for fire immune situations.
As for your Shadow Bolt idea, it ultimately only encourages a Warlock to throw Shadowbolts until a crit occurs, then switch to Incinerate for the rest of the fight. That's not a particularly interesting mechanic. We already don't have quite the incentive to spec into as we once did, due to the 5% decrease and the lack of periodic damage amplification.
An Imp Immolate change could be a nice way to add better raid support to Destro, too. Something like making it a 3 point talent that increases chance for fire spells to crit the target by 1% per while immolate is up, not stacking with multiple locks. With haste after conflag the debuff wouldn't be off for too long.
I definitely think they should make Metamorphosis a stance kind of ability. I also enjoy the thought of it being a melee form (that would obviously scale with our spellpower). They would just need to find the right balance of DPS in demon form and out of it.
I think if metamorphosis did out dps ruin, even upwards of 5%, I would still favor ruin. The damage is more normalized, and thus better. You thought it sucked when a mob CC'd you or forced you to move when you popped your icon/head, just wait until it happens when you are in your +30% damage phase of the fight.
Interesting idea as making Chaos bolt our version of FFB, and at that point take the cooldown off of it, don't make it punch through shields, and voila it can become fire destro's new spam spell and make molten core a lot more useful for pretty much being required to reach the bottom of the tree as fire. Tossing in an incinerate every now and then to refresh immolate. Not a bad concept but would need a little tweaking, and the name still works as i would say mixing the two most damaging magic schools in the game would be fairly chaotic. Heck even keeping the cooldown on would work also, as we would want to cast it each time and just have it force molten core to proc each time or something.
I'd hope the next version of Chaos Bolt would be more useful in raiding, although I could certainly see Meta giving a buff to Chaos Bolt while the form is up. Also, being able to cast incinerate in the form to refresh immolate is a good idea. The main point though is that Meta should be an ability that interacts with all our 51 point talents, and for Destro that means a Chaos-bolt chucking demon'o'doom much like the original WC3 version.
Originally Posted by Nehrak
From some of the responses I've been reading about Metamorphosis, it seems like people are heading towards it becoming a core ability. Now, as far as I'm concerned it seems like "45 seconds of glory" seems rather silly, even as a 51 point talent, for reasons already discussed (Ruin for one of those). Could it just not be, say, a core ability that's a Ritual to transform into the Demon (until cancelled or you die), then either give it hyperpowered abilities with no talent interaction, or abilities that go very well with every tree. For instance, Improved Imp could also bump up the Immolation, Improved Voidwalker the Shadow Cleave, etc. In other words, Demonology would apply the bonus directly to the abilities themselves, Destruction is obvious, Affliction would require a bit more work in that it would possibly need more ability support in the form itself (An AE Corruption or DoT? Shadow Cleave behaves like Shadow Bite?)
The idea is that Destro and Afflic could pick up a well deserved, useful and fun cooldown to blow for PvE/PvP and Demonology would get a slightly different version that favored melee strongly for flexibility. The Demo version would be further backed up by Shadow Strike which would act as a debuff to benefit both your new melee abilities and the raid in general. As it is, coming up with a baseline version that interacts with the 51 point talents and gives all 'locks a set of new abilities is going to be a harder sell than just altering the Demo version of Meta into something more useful for Demo.
The ability can't really give us "hyper-powered" abilities, but it should certainly give us useful ones combined with a reasonable power boost, and the 51 point talent interaction is just icing to reward those people who decide to go that far into the trees. Looking at the way I've got Meta worded now, it's more of a toy/PvP buff to non-51 point specs. Some sort of generic buff for non-51 point specs would be nice as well to have it useful to all specs instead of just 51+ point specs.
Originally Posted by Burberri
I think if metamorphosis did out dps ruin, even upwards of 5%, I would still favor ruin. The damage is more normalized, and thus better. You thought it sucked when a mob CC'd you or forced you to move when you popped your icon/head, just wait until it happens when you are in your +30% damage phase of the fight.
Well my current suggestion to make it a Baseline ability would make it not compete with Ruin at all. The decision would then become whether to take the 51 point talents for both their own merits and their interaction with the ability. In Demo that would mean gaining an extra shadow/physical debuff for the raid that would benefit your Demon Form directly, as well as the increased or removed duration on the form. I don't think the existance of a 51 point talent should relegate Ruin to the dust bin, but it should at least be a tough choice to choose a 21 point over a 51 point talent.
On the subject of being CC'd when you pop your ability, how is that different from any other class? You don't see Rogues, Warriors, Paladins, Mages, etc. complaining that their DPS overdrive abilities stink because they might get CC'd while using them. While I'd certainly be annoyed if Anetheron put me to sleep right after popping the ability, it's exactly the same as any other class would feel.
Last edited by Xentik : 08/01/08 at 6:04 AM.
Reason: added response to Burberri
I think if metamorphosis did out dps ruin, even upwards of 5%, I would still favor ruin. The damage is more normalized, and thus better. You thought it sucked when a mob CC'd you or forced you to move when you popped your icon/head, just wait until it happens when you are in your +30% damage phase of the fight.
Hence the idea on the previous page about having entering Metamorphosis cancel/disable all means of regenerating mana. Tweak the mana costs of every ability available in MM form to conform to 30-45 seconds of DPS. If you're not casting, you're not spending mana, and thus being forced to move, being encased in ice or whatever doesn't ruin (pun intended!) your DPS from that ability.
Darian_TruBlade : As I said earlier, it depends on how you envision Metamorphosis. I don't see it as turning into a Demon, I see it as temporarily turning yourself into a bolt spamming demon. From Illidan to Leotheras to what's-his-face-on-the-terrace to Demon Hunters in WC3, bolt spamming is an integral part of Metamorphosis. Not saying I wouldn't mind turning into a melee demon, but "Demon Form" while perfectly acceptable, is not "Metamorphosis" and if you're going to have it in the game, you might as well have it right. Bolt-spamming is the overrall theme when you grow wings and start sounding funky. I know, I know, that's not neccesarily the way everyone else sees Metamorphosis, but I still feel that's closest to how it's been previously presented in the franchise.
And if that bolt spamming is something you want to preserve in Metamorphosis, adapting destruction talents to affect whatever type of bolt (a FFB rippoff with fire and shadow sounds quite nice) you want it to spam is significantly easier than balancing around Demo's need for an active and asskicking pet, balancing it against a 100% uptime Ruin for a build that involvs an asskicking active pet, as well as whatever bits and pieces you can pick up from early Dest while havinga Demo 51-pointer.
I don't get the whole "Metamorphosis sucks because it needs to compete with Ruin" argument. Looking at other classes talent trees it is clear end talents are not designed this way. How exactly does Heroic Leap compete with Sweeping Strikes? Or Guardian Spirit with Divine Spirit? They're not all supposed to be good for everything. Also I don't think the devs envision players as the bunch of guys spamming bolts at a mob named Brutallus. And they shouldn't.
At the very least the following questions need to be answered:
- Is Meta strictly inferior to Ruin in solo play?
- Is it strictly inferior to Ruin in 5-mans?
- Is it strictly inferior to Ruin in 10-mans?
- Is it strictly inferior to Ruin in PvP?
- Is it situationally useful in 25-mans?
Also moving this talent from Demonology would suck. Not only lorewise ("this guy knew so much about demons he could become one for a short time"), but also if this is meant to be a fun/versatile escape ability it is well placed in the survival tree. Or at least the tree that was the survival tree when the playerbase was asking for this ability.
Everyone knows that if Metamorphosis does nothing but "stand there and look cool for 45 seconds," a huge number of people are going to take it. Heck, I'm one of them. But on this forum, people take the talents that are the best. If xx/51+/xx isn't just as viable as 0/50/21, Metamorphosis is essentially worthless. That's why it gets compared to ruin. Now if 0/54/17 is just as good as 0/50/21 even without Metamorphosis, then it's less of an issue, because it gets picked up incidentally. This happens in a lot of specs that have tree bloat. But I think most of us would like for it to stand up well on its own.
Now, I don't think it needs to strictly be better dps than Ruin. If it's a 35% dps boost for 45 seconds, it's technically worse than Ruin on paper, but in a 1 minute, 4 minute, or 7 minute fight, it's much better, slipping towards even and then below as those gaps pass. It's also potentially better if you can stack it with trinkets and other cooldowns like Heroism.
It's not too much to ask for something like that. Shaman have a baseline skill that gives the entire party 30% haste for 40 seconds. It seems perfectly reasonable to want what could be a class defining ability to be of equal quality.
I don't get the whole "Metamorphosis sucks because it needs to compete with Ruin" argument. Looking at other classes talent trees it is clear end talents are not designed this way. How exactly does Heroic Leap compete with Sweeping Strikes? Or Guardian Spirit with Divine Spirit? They're not all supposed to be good for everything. Also I don't think the devs envision players as the bunch of guys spamming bolts at a mob named Brutallus. And they shouldn't.
Which other classes talent trees requires at least 17 points in a specific off tree to remain competative? Demo and affliction locks really can't afford to be without bane, devestate, and grim reach at least. Meta has to compete directly with ruin because demo locks are going to have 17+ points in destro if they get it or not.
With the new avoidance and demonic resilience is the damage reduction from AOE 95% or 97.75. Basicly is it additive or multiplicative? or does it apply at all? Seems a little OP...not that I'm complaining.
With avoidance buffed and baseline, Demonic Resilience becomes entirely a pvp talent. If an AoE would hit for 10k, it will hit for 2k with avoidance. DR would reduce that by another 15%, down to 1.7k, making it really only worth 3% on AoE. Now it's still great for pvp because of what it gives the caster and the demon towards direct damage, but I don't expect it to be part of a raiding build (even now it's not part of my Felguard raiding build, it just doesn't make enough difference).
07/31/08, 4:51 PM
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