Resummoning it seems to fix the issue. When I got him down to that low crit chance, I put my gear back on and his crit was still low. But, when I resummoned him, his crit went back to up 30%. Mounting/dismounting might have an effect, its hard to tell. The drop from 10% to 7% might either be the roll of the dice (though I did 500 counts at each stage), or it could be related to me mounting up and flying back to Dr. Boom that time, which caused another 3% drop.
There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.
Well I stand corrected. It seems like its mounting that gets it to the right value.
I (somehow) got it down to the low crit chance and resummoned it. Still 10%.
Dismissed it then resummoned. Still 10%.
Ran out of combat, mounted, flew back. Back to 30%.
Wonder what happens if I run out of combat, take off my gear and run back. That's probably how I got it having the 30% crit chance while I was naked.
Edit: And bingo was his name-o. I did the above and got an Imp with 30% crit while I'm naked.
Last edited by Bibdy : 08/06/08 at 5:38 PM.
There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.
Improved Immolate, Conflagrate, Backdraft, Fire and Brimstone, put together are 14 talent points for a DPS increase of barely 10%. It's really a waste compared to some proper talents. If you missed them, I did some basic calculations in http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t26024-w...67/#post838393. 10% is bad for that amount of points.
Well I stand corrected. It seems like its mounting that gets it to the right value.
I (somehow) got it down to the low crit chance and resummoned it. Still 10%.
Dismissed it then resummoned. Still 10%.
Ran out of combat, mounted, flew back. Back to 30%.
Wonder what happens if I run out of combat, take off my gear and run back. That's probably how I got it having the 30% crit chance while I was naked.
Edit: And bingo was his name-o. I did the above and got an Imp with 30% crit while I'm naked.
Wow, if you added raid buffs in there and it looks like you are getting about 5/6 of your imps crit rate, that would be an estimated 93.5% crit rate for you in a raid with all the buffs. You are right, that is absolutely batshit bonkers. Lets hope they don't notice.
Wow, if you added raid buffs in there and it looks like you are getting about 5/6 of your imps crit rate, that would be an estimated 93.5% crit rate for you in a raid with all the buffs. You are right, that is absolutely batshit bonkers. Lets hope they don't notice.
Well I don't think the imp's base crit rate is supposed to be 30% unbuffed. That is the number I would have guessed it was with winter's chill, ele shaman, ret paladin, and moonkin.
I'm seeing some crazy shizzum with the Imp's crit rate. With my Sunwell gear on he has around a 27% crit rate (yes, its really that high). If I take my gear off, he drops down to ~11% crit (yes, apparently his crit chance is scaling directly with my own crit rating). If I put my gear back on, he goes DOWN to about 7% crit (yes, that makes no sense whatsoever). This has happened to me twice now, doing the same thing with my gear.
That sounds like a beta glitch or something like that. What is important, is if the Imp's crit scales with your crit rating in addition to intellect. This would be hugely important to ensure proper scaling with gear since we gain the majority of our crit via crit rating. I wouldn't rely on the character screen too much especially on a beta build, so could you perhaps do some testing on the subject?
On the topic of deep destro talents, what if we had a way for Chaos Bolt to keep Immolate up and/or keep Conflagrate from eating Immolate? This could be a Glyph or implemented some other way. For example:
Glyph of Chaotic Immolation (or some actually smart name)
Your Chaos Bolt also applies Immolate (without the initial damage)
This way you could cast a rotation of Incinerate*x (depending on haste), Chaos Bolt and Conflagrate while Chaos Bolt is still traveling. Conflagrate hits the target first consuming immolate but Chaos Bolt brings the debuff immediately back. This could cause some problems with missing Immolate ticks, but this was just an idea from the top of my head.
I know it sounds clunky, but the general idea here is 1) find some sensible rotation and 2) make Chaos Bolt worth casting. Right now the whole Imp. Immo, Conflag, Backdraft -tree feels very awkward. Casting a dot, consuming it before it expires and then recasting it just feels so counterproductive. Blizzard's intention seems to be to make destro use several spells rather than just one like we currently do and I like that idea. Having Immolate as a setup spell, Incinerate as a staple nuke and Conflag&Chaos Bolt to play around in a rotation seems like a nice set of spells to play with. Also having Chaos Bolt have some pve benefit other than it's pure damage would make potentially easier to balance. Right now it seems to have huge base damage and short casting time making it likely to scale badly.
Edit: Beaten to the Imp crit rate, however scaling with player's crit rate still seems unconfirmed?
You should keep in mind that if Immolate is not eaten by Conflagrate and not refreshed by any mechanic we are back to the TBC problem of keeping an Immolate up 100% of the time for Incinerate to deal its damage. With varying amounts of haste (gear, totems, Backdraft, auras) it is really impossible. One of the reasons why fire destruction is underperforming right now is even the best player cannot do it. If your cycle has a 1 second gap or you missed your window by 0.1 seconds you "wasted" your Incinerate cast.
So we either need an Immolate eating mechanic like it is now in beta (with all its drawbacks) or we need it to be refreshed as it was before.
The immolate boost to incinerate, it doesn't scale with +damage, right? At level 80, the difference between an immolate-boosted incinerate and incinerate by itself is around 5% dpct at 2500 spell dam. The loss in overall dps due to missing the incinerate once in a while is about 5% * 1/7 (~ max fraction incinerates you miss) < 1%, it's tiny.
You can't determine the Imp's crit rating without testing All you have to go on is what it says on its intellect stat, which in my case says it gets 6.7% crit from its intellect when I'm fully geared. I did a whole bunch of testing with Recount and Dr. Boom to figure that stuff out.
There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.
You can't determine the Imp's crit rating without testing All you have to go on is what it says on its intellect stat, which in my case says it gets 6.7% crit from its intellect when I'm fully geared. I did a whole bunch of testing with Recount and Dr. Boom to figure that stuff out.
Ahem, of course I just haven't had the pet tab open for months now due to certain demonology talent...
Anyway we look about set to raid with the little bugger. The only thing I'm still worried is running around fire etc. and Imp running straight through it.
So right now based on your guys math and calculations Ive narrowed it down to two possible specs for Destro raiding for myself in WotLK. Its either between 0/26/45 or 0/13/58(Both of these were posted by Flamingcloud on the previous page). Im not sure which one will do more dps at the present time. Any insight would be glady appreciated.
So right now based on your guys math and calculations Ive narrowed it down to two possible specs for Destro raiding for myself in WotLK. Its either between 0/26/45 or 0/13/58(Both of these were posted by Flamingcloud on the previous page). Im not sure which one will do more dps at the present time. Any insight would be glady appreciated.
The 22/3/46(My thoughts are this is likely the best dps if you can coa, what with the removal of +shadow/+fire enchants/items and the crazy molten core uptime you would have... hopefully a dot wouldn't take a empowered imp charge), and 0/26/45 specs both rely on chaos bolt sucking. If chaos bolt is better in a rotation than incinerate by any real margin only the x/y/51+z specs remain options.
The 22/3/46(My thoughts are this is likely the best dps if you can coa, what with the removal of +shadow/+fire enchants/items and the crazy molten core uptime you would have... hopefully a dot wouldn't take a empowered imp charge), and 0/26/45 specs both rely on chaos bolt sucking. If chaos bolt is better in a rotation than incinerate by any real margin only the x/y/51+z specs remain options.
Yeah, I thought that if chaos bolt wasnt as good as it could be I would go 0/26/45 going down to 1/5 md in the demonology tree(In my opinion this was the best non chaos bolt and conflag build). If not the 0/13/58 spec you posted seemed like it would work really nicely if chaos bolt became something that would be viable in a rotation.
Something about the way Backdraft works, and Fire and Brimstone works makes me think that the "Destruction" glyph wont be changing the way Conflag consumes Immolate, but more so that there will be a glyph that shortens the duration of Immolate down to 10 seconds and further increase the strike damage.
Spec with imp out, rotation as immo, conflag as normal. that's how i see raiding without having testing this i obviously have no clue what will work, but i like the idea that if we go destruction there are many options further down the tree.
Spec with imp out, rotation as immo, conflag as normal. that's how i see raiding without having testing this i obviously have no clue what will work, but i like the idea that if we go destruction there are many options further down the tree.
But that build doesn't have conflag, and if you dont take backdraft and F&B you are pretty much back to square one with the usefulness of conflag. Also why do you have only 2/3 in imp imp but have a point in soul link even though its no longer attached? Just curious also, if you have no shadow or shadow dots in your rotation, what exactly would be procing molten core? I guess i could understand why you would spec DS for those situations imp won't work, but frankly those points would be better spent in at least F&B.
His spec does have problems, but in all honesty unless you take aftermath you need atleast 2/3 in molten core. Presumably CoA will proc molten core quite abit(probably enough to make it better than CoD). I am kind of hoping for a small molten core buff(like molten core going from 6 to 8 seconds). I have no idea how they intend it to be a demonlogy talent, even with molten core procced incinerate is still worthless without emberstorm.
Yep, it procs on Siphon Life. It also doesn't seem to have an internal cooldown. I SL'd a bunch of mobs and it overlapped itself.
Thats to be expected. Sounds like it works exactly like I thought it would aside from CoA not working, and being 12 seconds instead of 6. Even if it remained in this version, a 22/3/46 spec would have excellent uptime off siphonlife/corruption. Should be 72.7% molten core uptime with just sl/corr and 89.7% uptime if CoA also effects it on a 12 second timer. If immolate ends up working on top of that 92.6% uptime, etc.
I think personally gaining sl, instant empowered corruption, imp lifetap, amp curse, double extended range, nightfall, and 90% moltencore uptime >> demonic aegis, backdraft, fire and brimstone, and chaosbolt at the moment.
Thats to be expected. Sounds like it works exactly like I thought it would aside from CoA not working, and being 12 seconds instead of 6. Even if it remained in this version, a 22/3/46 spec would have excellent uptime off siphonlife/corruption. Should be 72.7% molten core uptime with just sl/corr and 89.7% uptime if CoA also effects it on a 12 second timer. If immolate ends up working on top of that 92.6% uptime, etc.
I think personally gaining sl, instant empowered corruption, imp lifetap, amp curse, double extended range, nightfall, and 90% moltencore uptime >> demonic aegis, backdraft, fire and brimstone, and chaosbolt at the moment.
Edit: changed spec to get shadowfury instead of nightfall.. 21/3/47 now.
A really interesting build, but it raises the question of how often you would have to be casting DOTs that don't benefit from your crit/investment in the destruction tree. Still, creative, and reiterates why some of us don't want DOTs to speed up with haste. But yey for variation.
Has anyone tested whether Empowered Imp buff is consumed by non-crittable spells?
Has anyone tested a 0/50/21 build in a setting with the FG getting totems? What is overall demonic pact uptime looking like at this point? Does his dps seem to be increasing as much as theorycrafted due to these buffs (theorycraft was provided a while back in this thread)?
Also, how long does the demonic empowerment buff last and what is the cooldown?
I'm very much looking forward to going back to demonology for raiding. Even if it doesn't dominate damage meters like it did in T5 content, demonic pact would seem to guarantee a raid spot, and the dps is looking competetive at this point, even though the build will suffer a little bit from lack of haste scaling.
Wouldn't it be nice if improved demonic tactics also gave the demon a percentage of the masters haste? =)
A really interesting build, but it raises the question of how often you would have to be casting DOTs that don't benefit from your crit/investment in the destruction tree. Still, creative, and reiterates why some of us don't want DOTs to speed up with haste. But yey for variation.
Has anyone tested whether Empowered Imp buff is consumed by non-crittable spells?
This is something that interests me greatly. Your crit rate would be pretty nutty in this spec if dots/lifetap did not consume the dots as there would almost always be an auto-crit waiting for you when you are done applying a few dots. By my calculations an empowered corruption is better than incinerate at any level of crit, and that siphon life is slightly worse(like 15dps) than incinerate at levels of crit over 60%. Still a 15 dps hit for a large amount of healing and molten core uptime is a good trade off. On a fight with movement it would be an extra benefit, and on a multitarget fight you could just do 2-3 corruptions and leave sl completely out of the rotation and keep the uptime.
If haste made dots tick faster, affliction would be very competitive. Even the removal of the 4pc t6 bonus is going to help dots competitiveness quite a bit. Would also help if chaotic skyfire diamond wasn't overpowered. Those things alone add like 150 more dps to destruction than to affliction.
Last edited by Flamingcloud : 08/07/08 at 3:32 PM.
08/06/08, 5:33 PM
All you have to go on is what it says on its intellect stat, which in my case says it gets 6.7% crit from its intellect when I'm fully geared. I did a whole bunch of testing with Recount and Dr. Boom to figure that stuff out.
I just haven't had the pet tab open for months now due to certain demonology talent...
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