Bibdy

Even if you had an auto-crit waiting, doesn't mean it came for free. It still required the Imp to crit. In fact, its more dangerous as you're more likely to waste crits because the Imp got a 2nd crit in the time it took you to apply those DoTs.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.

 

Bismar

True, you probably get in a priority-queue like:

Whenever Emp Imp is up, if Molten Core isn't up, hit Shadowbolt.
Whenever Emp Imp is up, if Molten Core is up, hit Incinerate.

On top of the priority system of all your DOTs. Would definitely be complex game play (but probably ends up not scaling as well as 0/13/58 because of DOT problems).

 

Snolick

I meant to put 3/3 in imp imp.

And i didnt know that Molten Core didnt proc off immolate.

And the 14 points dont seem to be worth it to get backdraft, since as someone previously stated it only yields a 10% increase in dmg, which also imo it isn't worth the 14 points.

 

Flamingcloud

Yes there is a chance to waste an auto-crit, but the actual incinerates you do fire would have a higher crit rate than if you were just firing incinerates. Firing corruptions and siphons will actually be less time on non-incinerate spells than firing immolates and conflagrations.

I don't see why scaling is an issue, even at the end of TBC(with all raid buff changes factored in) corruption is still > +6% t6, CSD, 60% crit, 2 second base incinerates, and siphon is just below it. F&B/Backdraft spec will maybe scale marginally better as it is benefited slightly more by crit(but actually scales worse with haste/damage) and that is ignoring the +7-9% dmg of molten core basically. Unless they make backdraft and fire and brimstone better I can't see it competing. Ofcourse none of this will matter if chaos bolt is more than a 5-6% gain in the rotation. If it is, then we are choosing between 11/3/57, and 0/13/58 basically.

I also see no reason to fire a shadowbolt ever, none of the specs can fit improved shadowbolt in, and without it you have a spell thats hitting for only slightly more(slightly less if molten core is up) but takes almost half a second longer to cast.

 

Bibdy

You could get it if you totally avoid Conflag from your rotation and stick to Immo, Incinerates and Shadowbolts when EI procs.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.

 

Atrocity3

Did you test the dps of this build in comparison to 0/13/58 or 0/26/45? For my own personal preference I would enjoy one of those builds more(Im not too keen on the whole DoT thing). If the dps of the build you posted is marginally better than one of those then I guess I would play it, but if they were close or arguably similar I think I would play one of the other two specs. I havent compared the dps of your spec to one of those. Have you?

 

Latas

Oh i only stated about backdraft and such because you mentioned using conflag in your rotation which you didn't even talent into.

As far as the demo spec, I'm not sure if anyone noticed but I just did when making up one to link but fel synergy now heals the pet for 15% of the damage done to you. I don't exactly understand the logic of them even hinting at changing it like this. Not to mention it saddens me to still not see a single thing done with the multitude of unimportant or useless talents we have to go through and (some of them) take to get down to what starts defining a demo build.

Also I noticed something strange with the empowered imp effect. If I was in the middle of casting and it procs and buffs me with it, it will not use it on that cast. Yet if I start casting and it runs out mid cast it won't apply to that cast either. Its getting used at the end of a cast but recognizes and ignores spells in mid cast upon procing. Since it is used at the end of a cast logic would assume it would make that spell in mid cast when it procs, crit. But instead its making me take more time to finish that spell and start another one while the buff is up. Thus costing me possible extra procs while I'm basically going through one and a half spells.

 

Flamingcloud

All of these specs should be within 8-12%(max) of each other as they only vary on the non-incinerate/imp parts(aside from the huge chaos bolt wildcard). I would imagine the 0/26/45 would be by far the easiest spec to play, and the most like what end game is like atm.

 

• frmorrison

The great thing about the imp is he will follow you when you move, he will even stop casting to do it.

I know they fixed the health problems, no idea about the mana problems (raid buffs and JoW only go so far).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Flamingcloud

They increased his mana regen by 200%, a tester said it took 5 minutes of 1.5 second bolts for it to oom unbuffed. Once the pet getting your hit is in place that might get extended quite abit. With JoW or even BoW I would imagine it has infinite mana.

 

Latas

Well at least from personal experience, when I specced out of the felhunter, because it was broken when I was affliction, and specced for the imp as an old school mana battery, he was the best damn mana battery I have ever seen. He was regenning mana at about 600 a tick. After each fight I could almost always have a free ~4k mana waiting to be sucked up. With raid buffs I doubt his mana regen will have many problems.

 

PSGarak

What is the imp's scaling of spirit and regen? The last time I checked, which was admitedly 2.3.1 or so, the imp had amazing base regen but the tooltip said only ~9mp/5 of that was coming from 200+ spirit. While he absolutely has great base regen, and will get the full benefit from BoW/JoW/Mana totems, I'm concerned that his regen will remain relatively static with respect to spirit, from raid buffs and from your gear. Although, if JoW is as insane as people report, he'll be at infinite mana very quickly anyways.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Bibdy

I definitely noticed the difference in regeneration when I was trying to get screenshots of 500 counts of firebolt during my testing.

Completely naked, he could only get off about 20 firebolts before running OOM with a mana bar around 2900. A mana cost of 145 per bolt implies he had 0 regeneration.

With full Sunwell Gear he could manage about 50 firebolts with a mana bar around 3450. Meaning he regenerated 3800 more mana during the 75 seconds it took him to run OOM. So he got 253 MP5 (while casting!) from somewhere.

So whatever is giving him more regen, its not Spirit (because I have 0 on my gear). It might be spell damage, or it might be Intellect.

Also worth noting, that when I did flat Incinerate spam with Eternal Flames going, the Imp never ran OOM. When I started doing Conflag rotations he slowly bled dry over the course of a few minutes.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.

 

Atrocity3

Yeah, that is the spec I would like to aim for playing in the expansion. I think i am going to enjoy the new using of the imp in Destro.The talents in that build are balanced pretty well and you get a bucnh of cool abilities/dps increasing talents. The added crit should make Destro put up some pretty impressive dps numbers(Plus the new winters chill/shaman totems/moonkin aura).

 

Latas

The 253 from casting seems to me like he either is getting the benefit of the regen from your fel armor, or he has a build in "while casting" regen percentage. The reason he probably started bleeding dry when you mixed in conflag was because with conflag in there and immolate in there you aren't getting as much of the big bursts that pure incinerate spam would give that are so perfect for improved soul leech. Heck I doubt you even needed eternal flames.

As far as PSGarak's comment, I am pretty sure that as of 2.4 they normalized regen to be the same formula for all classes. Not sure if it applies to pets as well, but it would make sense.

 

ggyourlife

Wait, I'm confused as to how your imp would run out of mana with 1 cast rotation vs another, assuming both are the same DPS (and thus same mana return from Imp Soul Leech). How does having burst dmg vs constant dmg change anything, as it will all average out over time?

 

Bibdy

Immolate doesn't proc Soul Leech.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.

 

Flamingcloud

It really doesn't matter if the imp's regen is "almost good enough" in a non-raid situation. Raid buffed he is going to have atleast 350 mp5 more from raid buffs, and more mp5 on top of that because of raid buffs making you do more damage.

Also, demonic pact is going to almost double his +Dmg(or in practical terms make his bolt hit 80-120 harder before modifiers depending on the point in the expansion) Probably looking at around 600-700 average bolts(400-466dps) at 70 fully buffed depending on your talents, and having all the raid buffs.

 

• frmorrison

Those those in Beta and have 4/5 Tier 5, spec 50 points in Affliction (to have your corruption get refreshed) and spam rank 1 shadow bolt while corruption is one your target.

You may find why the number 2^29 is significant .

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Twin

Any beta locks want to test out this spec in pvp once they increase the cap to 80.

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warlock -> Talent Calculator


they idea for going 0/30/41 is to maximize survivability while still having a decent damage out put and a lot of burst. As it is now any thing past 41 points in destro for pvp seems like percs and not necessities. It seems like destruction doesn't really change much pvpwise past 41 points like affliction and demo does. This right now is looking like the best destro pvp spec untill we see what they do with chaos bolt. What do y'all think?

 

Atrocity3

I would strongly reccomend getting empowered imp. The imps dps will add to yours and on top of that, Its gives your around 20% crit, if not more when raid buffed. Its a serious dps upgrade for only 3 points.

*Edit* Misread you saying pvp spec. I thought you said pve. But yeah if you are going destro for pvp then that looks pretty solid. You always have room to move around some points if needed

 

Bibdy

Urgh, the mid-demo talents make me want to hurl. Backdraft and Emberstorm are absolutely worth having in a PvP build and I imagine whatever Chaos Bolt turns into will be worth it.

Something like THIS would be more my taste.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.

 

skumm

Someone link me the 0/26/45 and I'll try it when i get home from work. or link me the message # with it. I don't have time here at work to go digging.

I'm trying different beta builds for the locks in my guild as well. If you have any questions let me know and i'll try and help you out.

 

LockApologist

Who all is excited about this comment?

Source

Looks like it they are aiming for the pre-BC model of only enough locks for debuffs and mages for everything else. With DK's Ebon plague taking the same place as Male+CoE, that may leave only one lock spot for Frailty+Demonic Pact.

 

Bibdy

I don't know how they're going to make Mages the kings of AOE when we've still got Seed of Corruption. I always thought Warlocks were the supplemental AOE to mages in Vanilla WoW, as they could still AOE while they had aggro, while we Hellfired/Rain of Fired along with them, but couldn't function under focus fire (at least Horde side...damn Paladins).

Also, I simply don't understand how they could have let SoC do what its been doing for the last TWO YEARS when it was never the intention for us to have such powerful AOE. Why the hell didn't they just nerf it? Its not like we NEED SoC for anything as a class. A damage reduction wouldn't have grossly affected AOE grinding, PvP, 5-mans...nothing really. They could have always nerfed the HP of things like Void Spawns on M'uru and Reflections on KJ to balance out an SoC nerf.

More to the point, if they're the kings of AOE, why do they need to spec deep Fire to get it? The more AOE talents they put into Deep Fire like Living Bomb and Firestarter, the more it takes away from single-target DPS. But guess what, that's LESS likely to get them into a raid. Who the hell cares about AOE? Unless they start making fights with an absolutely insane number of mobs to kill, I don't see it happening, nor do I see doing that as being fair to guilds that don't have everyone specced for AOE. Gimmicks are bad m'kay.

The ONLY AOE advantage a Mage has over a Warlock is being able to do it while being hit. While raiding remains a 'stand-still-and-spam-yo-shit'fest, the less importance that has.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.