Darkmantle

My general impression has been that the pure DPS classes glyphs are far less interesting than the hybrid classes. This is possibly because the hybrids are more specialised than our generic damage boosts. Nothing seems to compare to the power of the swiftmend not removing rejuv glyph though.

 

Wuff

I'm disappointed too.

Only the Felguard and Img damage boosts seem to be as potent as many of the other classes glyphs - if you use these pets mostly for dps like some raiders will.

Most of them are boring copies like nightfall, completely useless like increased banish or seduction time or simply unnoticable and far too rare events (healthstone, soulstone, fear).

 

PSGarak

I never was interested in Glyphs for raw DPS power, I was interested in what cool things they could add, like redesigning Healing Touch into Flash Heal. So much 10% damage or 10% crit is really dissapointing from what we were promised they would be. The only cool things these are adding are already available as talents, some of which have since been scrapped.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Krazen

Ultimately, though, people are just going to take DPS boosts if they are available. It's tough to create a sizable set of useful and different glyphs that people would want.

 

PSGarak

Honestly, I'm disappointed that there are DPS boosts available, for that very reason. There was a point several months ago where they said that there wouldn't be min-max glyphs (this was the KB-fireball comment). I can understand not being able to come up with that many unique effects, much less balance them all. Still, I would have liked the MOAR DAMIJ effects to come with some sort of downside, like how the mage nuke glyphs give a raid benefit by redefining spell to be raid-only. Something like 20% more mana, 50% more health on lifetap.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Burberri

Mages get to tweak their polymorph so it removes dots, and we get this garbage?

I was hoping for something like banish is applied to undead, or being able to unbanish (like we could when it was bugged).

They don't change playstyle, or give us any cool new abilities and they have marginal enhancement to DPS. These have to be generic placeholders.

 

lurirax

Hmm nothing was added for incenerate and no green fire.

The damage boost for pets are nice and the nightfall glyph.

The rest is just kind of meh! Seams like the designers where out of ideas.

 

Raekwynn

According to the talent calculator on mmo-champion, UA is now instant cast, or was this old news?

 

Diivil

Considering that there's a glyph that reduces cast time of UA and UA having 5000y range in the mmo-champion's tooltip, I'd say that's just a bug.

 

PSGarak

There are contradicting reports about that floating around mmo-champion. The talent calculator lists it as instant, the game file says 1.5 seconds, it's on Fel Concentration which implies a cast time, there's a glyph to make it cast 0.2 seconds faster, and there's unconfirmed second-hand friend-of-a-friend beta reports from testers having it go both ways. I think, at best, this is an indication blizzard might be thinking about making it instant. Probably just a false alarm though.

With four(!) classes getting Glyphs in the data files at a time, I really hope that means at least one of them (read: us) was a rush job or first draft that got swept in when it didn't deserve to be. We don't have any ability re-designs, unless you count immolate, which can't help but be compared to Moonfire unfavorably.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Ele'

Those glyphs seems quite lackluster to me. Not a single "cosmetic" effect, the increase in duration of banish/seduce will most likely not work in pvp and is not that usefull in pve, etc.

Some random thoughts about those gylphs:

Felhunter
I fail to understand the Felhunter's glyph. As far as I know, its only damaging spell is an instant cast on a 6 sec cooldown. Increasing its spell power by 20% seems quite weak, in such case.

Corruption
I wonder how the Glyph of corruption will stack with Nightfall. If the buff is the same for both effects, you may "lose" some Shadow Trance uptime if they both proc at the same time...

Curse of Agony
This one seems a really good investment, if you are able to use said curse. Not only do you gain 2 ticks in the more powerfull part of the spell (it builds up over time, remember ?), but you also gain enough time to throw an extra spell in your "rotation" before refreshing it.

Felguard
By increasing its damage by 20%, they increase the amount of damage that Metamorphosis has to provide to be usefull in a raid setting. Not a smart move, in my humble opinion.
(But on a side note, I think I can give up my hopes of seeing Metamorphosis used in raid anyway...)

Voidwalker
What good is an health increase it if can't keep the aggro ? Appart from Soul Link, obviously.


I was eager to see our glyphs, as I intended to get the extra Glyph Slot for raiding. But seeing this list, I doubt I will even find 6 raid-oriented glyphs. I hope those are just placeholders while they implement the real ones...

You can clip our wings, but we will always remember what it was like to fly.

 

Medu

Yes, but if you could stack spell damage in sockets instead of been forced to use large amounts of crit/haste it should help with the problem.

 

Roywyn

The Corruption might perhaps work additive with Nightfall, in that it gives you 8% chance to proc from Corruption.
Maybe, just an idea. We'll see when Glyphs actually get implemented.

Curse of Agony:
If you have Amplify Curse, you spend 1s every 24s casting CoA, or 4.1666% of your cast time.
With 2 more ticks, you spend 1s every 28s casting CoA, or 3.5714%of your cast time.

So you get 0.595% more cast time, that's like 0.6% haste. Or 0.9% if you don't have Amplify Curse.

As for the damage, as far as I know all ticks scale the same with spell damage, so you'd only gain some more base damage.

Certainly better than nothing (if CoA turns out worth casting), but it doesn't really seem overwhelming.
It may be better for a tab-dotting scenario, perhaps.

For comparison, the Unstable Affliction Glyph is equivalent to 1.33% haste.
[Edit]: Once you run above 30% haste, it's benefit will diminuish of course and become useless at 50% total haste.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

Scrufola

Which Glyphs are supposed to be the destruction ones? I'm looking fore something like

which just screams "raid".

The Conflagrate one reduces the mane cost of our cheapest spell which has a cooldown. And the Immolate one reduces the initial damage by 10%, neglecting 2 of 5 already weak points. The bonus is an increased periodic damage which reduces the damage gain from the Conflagrate-Backdraft. The Immolate is probably a demo glyph to proc molten core. And destro is assumed to use the Conflagrate and the Imp glyph?

At least mages get a band-aid fix for another stupidity.

 

Seldric

I downloaded the patch this morning and checked UA on beta. It is still 1.5 cast time, not instant.

 

Akj

The felhunter glyph has me confused. Does shadow bite scale with spell damage?

These seem like must have glyphs for a PvE mage. Can any of our glyphs be considered equivalent to this?

 

Scrufola

I don't think we want them and I t think mages don't want them too. Percentage modifiers scale indefinitely and lock down a part of your character because you will always have to use that glyph. That's what happened to us with Demonic Sacrifice.

 

taybul

Not really. Most of our glyphs seem more catered towards PvP/PvE soloing (after writing this I realize that for the next couple months after Wrath is released, most of our time will be spent solo PvE'ing anyway). I'd like to be optimistic and say that since they're still trying to adjust our abilities for endgame raiding we may get more in the future, but unless they're doing the same for the other classes, this may be all we're getting.

Every profession has its perks and if ability augmentation is it for Inscription, it can't be too overpowered. If it isn't a perk, then there may be more in store. Every first detail about Wrath should be taken with a bucket of salt anyway.

 

PsyBomb

The Felhunter glyph and Corruption glyph are actually pretty insane for Affliction, Shadowbolt one would be my third choice (unless Syphon Life's last rank turns out to be way better than anticipated). This of course assumes that all listed Glyphs are Major, which is all we can assume for now.

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

 

Sydane

I hope the "functional" glyphs also give a cosmetic effect, such as the Felguard glyph putting an enchant on his weapon, or giving him another weapon entirely. But that might be too much to hope for. The Felguard glyph itself is pretty insane, that's a straight 4-5% threat free dps increase to me by current standards.

The soulstone glyph is pretty useless unless they double the mana as well. I like the idea of having Nightfall without being affliction (nice boost to demo), but I agree it doesn't seem very creative to just clone an existing talent.

Can't say I'd complain about the power of the glyphs overall, but nothing really jumps out as creative or original. Still holding out hope for good cosmetic minor glyphs though.

 

Darian_TruBlade

The Corruption Glyph might be worthwhile for a Destruction Lock forced to spec for Frailty. Instant Shadow Bolts scale better than Incinerate, and potentially proc Molten Core.

 

Ele'

I did some math to evaluate the benefit from the Glyph of Immolation.
They may be some rounding errors (nothing replaces a spreadsheet), but if you find some major flaws in this please feel free to correct me (who knows, I may have forgotten something important ^^).

Given the spell Immolate (Rang 11):
2 sec cast time, 1.5 talented
total damages = 460 (direct) + 785 (dot/15 sec)

And the following variables:
Without the glyph:
The direct damage component is boostd by 21% of our spellpower, the dot by 63%.

With the Glyph
Decrease the direct damage by 10%, increase the dot by 20%.


Difference

Conclusion
In a "standard" dps point of view, we gain a stable bonus of 111 damage per immolates (7.4 dps), aud we increase its scaling by 10.5% of our spell damage (it scales with 94.5% of our spellpower instead of 84%).
On the other hand, we diminish the portion that gain something from our crit rate. Some examples with numbers:

With Ruin:
- with a really bad stuff (0 dmg, ~10% crit): we gain 111 - 46*10% = 106.4 dmg = 7.1 dps
- with a standard BC stuff (1300 dmg, ~25% crit): we gain 111 + 1300*10.5% - (46 + 1300*2.1%)*25% = 229.175 = 15.28 dps
- with some Wotlk stuff* (2100 dmg, 30% crit): we gain 111 + 2100*10.5% - (46 + 2100*2.1%)*30% = 304.47 = 20.3 dps

Without Ruin:
- with a really bad stuff (0 dmg, ~10% crit): we gain 111 - 46*5% = 108.7 dmg = 7.25 dps
- with a standard BC stuff (1300 dmg, ~25% crit): we gain 111 + 1300*10.5% - (46 + 1300*2.1%)*12.5% = 238.34 = 15.89 dps
- with some Wotlk stuff* (2100 dmg, 30% crit): on gagne 111 + 2100*10.5% - (46 + 2100*2.1%)*15% = 317.99 = 21.2 dps


A good glyph, that scales with the stuff without being overpowered. I assume that it will be a medium or major glyph, excepted if they think that its drawback (lack of burst for pvp) compensate for it.
Something to note is that it's a bit more beneficial if you don't use Ruin (but on an immolate that will be less effective, in the grand scheme of things).


* disclaimer: numbers taken out of my ass ! Really. Feel free to modify them with something more appropriate.

You can clip our wings, but we will always remember what it was like to fly.

 

tetracycloide

Possible affliction raid glyphs:

Glyph of Corruption: ~1% DPS boost assuming it is addative with nightfall. If they proc different buffs that can be consumed at the same time the boost will be smaller.
Glyph of Felhunter: This really depends on what felhunter DPS looks like at 80 with raid buffs. Assuming the felhunter does half the DPS of a raid buffed felguard and all of that DPS is spell damage, which it won't be, this is ~2-2.5% DPS boost. It's more likely this will rank closer to ~1% DPS boost given that not all felhunter damage is spell based.
Glyph of Immolate: As noted this does scale with gear and if it stacks multaplicatively with haunt, which it probably will, we're looking at solid double digit DPS gains, ~1.5%.
Glyph of Shadow Bolt: Really really absurdly small DPS boost, ~.5%
Glyph of Siphon Life: Slightly better than glyph of immolate, +20% damage on a better DPCT spell with no drawbacks. Solid double digit DPS gains even in BC gear, >1.5%.
Glyph of Unstable Affliction: 1.1% more casting time at most. Slighly more mobility, DPS gain of <1%.

Immolate and Siphon Life look like early leaders assuming multaplicative stacking with haunt. Close alternatives are most likely corruption and felhunter, depending on the specifics of the mechanics. It speaks rather loudly to poor design that the current best affliction glyphs buff the two worst DoTs in the affliction lineup, one of which isn't even on tree. Here's hoping the felhunter will be balanced so that the felhunter glyph out performs the immolate glyph.

My vanity is justified.

 

Smurrf

The new Warlock Glyphs, and the thought process that is apparently going into them (and the rest of the Warlock class), are just bad. Not only that, they go directly in the face of what everyone was told when Inscriptions were first really discussed. I don't have the quote on-hand, but it was directly stated that they wanted inscriptions to have interesting mechanics involved, and not just 'X'% more damage to existing spells.

Compare that with the list of Glyphs linked on the preceding page. Okay, granted, not all are plain more damage (although a good number are), but most of the rest are either extended durations, allowing more time for DPS spells (thus, more damage), or cheaper mana costs for the spells (again, more time spent casting w/o having to regain mana = more DPS.) One just plain mimics an existing talent, and it's up in the air as to whether or not it'll stack with the talent in question. Where's the random knockback effects? Where's the spell interrupts, or stuns? Where's the ability to have Drain Life hit two targets at once? Basically, where's the gravy? We have our meat, and meat's good. But it's bland meat, at this point...and all we got to garnish our meat with is...well, more meat. And while Druids get a Polar Bear form from glyphs and Mages get a Poly Penguin from glyphs, we have no cosmetic modifications at all. Now, granted, we do get Demon form...but that has its own set of issues.

It's as if Blizz took a good hard look at working all the other classes out, and really looked at feedback, but completely and utterly failed to listen to their locks. Affliction still has something that just doesn't fit as their filler, Demonology requires you to spend an extreme amount of points buffing your pets...only to not have those pets out during the ultimate talent in the spec. Destruction has its own set of questions, and from what I've read, none of the really big concerns have been addressed satisfactorily. The trees are loaded with choices, sure...but those choices are not 'Hmm, do I want to sleep with a supermodel tonight, or do I want to write a Grammy-winning record?' Instead, it's more in the lines of 'Which gutter do I want to grub in to pick up the spare change I need to eat dinner with tonight?'

You can see it in Koraa's classic quote about Affliction style locks from the Beta forums. "Even though you'll be casting DoTs as affliction, you'll still be casting Shadow Bolt's in your rotation. Thus haste/crit/death's embrace all benefit you." Why is this necessary? Shadow Bolt as an Affliction filler is clunky. Affliction is all about doing damage done over time. It wears down the enemy in question, and grinds away at his soul. So why put in large, bursty damage as such a huge portion of their arsenal? It just doesn't fit. You can almost view different specs as you do different classes in many ways. You have plenty of choices for Melee DPS. Why do you pick one over the other? Because you like the flavor of that style. You like using a big twohander to bash heads, or you like slicing into kidneys with daggers. In a similar sense, for the pure DPS classes, each spec is designed to have a different flavor of its own, separate from the others. Unfortunately, with SB being set aside as the only default filler, then we lose a lot of that flavor. Ketchup is still ketchup, even if it's on top of hot dogs instead of burgers. Not only that, but if we do use it (as it's intended), then we're locked into having Destro as our minor, for reasons listed elsewhere in the last few pages.

There's questions still about Drain Soul...for the mana it costs, it's just not worth it unless you specifically need shards. And if that's all that's intended for the spell, then why is there more than one rank for it? There's questions in Affliction about curses. Unless the number of debuff slots is drastically increased, you're still going to have room for only one Afflock in a raid...so why force us to spend points in Imp'd CoA on the way up? We're not going to use that in any raid situation. There's questions lingering over a lot of talents and their locations, and good answers just don't seem to be offing.





Now, granted, the beta is nowhere near done. I definitely understand that. But I'm extremely worried that Blizz is wearing Pilton's Rose Colored Glasses when it comes to the warlock situation, and that they won't address any of the issues raised thus far by the lock community. (And yes, I do understand that there are more roles for locks than just PvE raids...I only can offer opinions on PvE though, as I detest PvP.) I am also truly hoping that there's another huge pass over the lock trees before all is said and done. It's not just one or two things wrong here; there's a ton. Will locks continue to do damage, and do it well? Sure. You're not going to get around that. I trust that our DPS output will never sink to the bottom of the pack, and that there will always be room for us. The latest round of Glyphs alone secures that Blizzard is wanting to make sure of that...if nothing else. I'm simply not so confident in their ability to actually listen to their community, and make changes that would go a long way towards enhancing our quality of play.

 

Burberri

Assuming you were a destruction warlock allowed to use CoA, you might be able to build something with

Glyph of Corruption
Glyph of Nightfall
Glyph of Siphon Life

With a 21/0/50 spec you could use the dot ticks + instant shadowbolts to keep molten core up with incinerate spam the rest of the time. That would probably work okay for you in a 10-man Naxx, but would suffer from scaling issues as 1/3rd of your damage is being brought to you from a source that can't crit.