I was putting a focus into seeing scaling, using as much as 3k spell power, and 15% haste / 20% crit from gear.
That's not attainable now. That might perhaps be the ballpark we see at the end of Wrath in a year or two.
It was mainly meant to fish for good or bad scaling.
The "Factor Two" for mage DPS was Frostfire Bolt getting the bonuses from CoE/Scorch/WChill twice (i.e. 55% damage, 20% crit), but that's fixed now.
At that time, Fire Destruction was a good 20% ahead of mage specs (not counting bugs like the one above).
Right now, they're about 5% above mages with a very simplified model that has around 10 talent points unused.
Shadow Destro looks about on par with fire mages.
There are still things missing or bugged though (F&B, Chaos Bolt).
The major points that carry destruction are Emp. Imp (10% crit or more) and Imp. Soul Leech (no more Life Tap).
I haven't actually looked at affliction.
Demo was a fair bit behind Destro for personal DPS, but ahead for rDPS by 1-2k due to the extremely well-scaling damage buff (even if not stacking with ToW/iDS).
Long story short:
Big numbers come from 3000 spell damage. Destruction looks very solid right now, and patches can change anything in a heartbeat.
[Edit]: What Finkum said. It's not "how much DPS do I do", it's "how many percent is fire ahead of frost and where is arcane".
Blizzard said that Molten Core was for Demonology warlocks who wanted to spec destro and use fire damage. A deep-demo build can't really get fire to stand on its own, so it allows their shadow casting to support the fire playstyle rather than detracting from it. Of course, implimentation can be a far cry from intent. But it seems reasonable to me that a shallow talent is more about making a tree 'gel' with another one, rather than working with that tree in isolation.
Pretty poor implementation considering that Tier 1 of Destruction is as Shadow as it is. But I admit that goals are very good.
Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade
Shadow Destruction has it's own benefits, but DoTs may ultimately be more of a hindrance than a help. The impressive 147.1% scaling on Shadow Bolt, combined with Crit/Haste scaling, can ultimately mean that the damage/cast time of your DoTs will fall behind. You could theoretically reach a situation where SE is entirely obsolete, although I think CoA at least will be able to maintain its usefulness indefinitely.
I doubt anything except 2 sec cast Corruption can really be outscaled by Shadow Bolt, except by a very high crit Shadow Bolt. It's around 47.6% (with Ruin, but without CSD or its equivalent) for Imp but not Emp Corruption. Most of multipliers are for all Shadow damage, not just for Shadow Bolt, and haste affects DPCT of all spells equally.
Originally Posted by Calixtus
Mindflay will apparently be modified to recieve damage from crit, as well as an increased coeffecient alleviating scaling issues for our warlock-who-misrolled friends. The obvious follow up question whether something similar was to be expected for affliction warlocks was answered with "Someththing similar, yes". This should be interesting.
Affliction Warlocks already have something similar and it's called Improved Shadow Bolt. As for Mind Flay it has a horrible coefficient right now, something around 57% for a 3 sec spell, while proper coefficient for such spell is 85.7%, as the one Shadow Bolt has.
Mindflay will apparently be modified to recieve damage from crit, as well as an increased coeffecient alleviating scaling issues for our warlock-who-misrolled friends. The obvious follow up question whether something similar was to be expected for affliction warlocks was answered with "Someththing similar, yes". This should be interesting.
No, Mind Flay will be able to crit, not recieve damage from crit.
There's a pretty good chance the "something similar" remark means our drains will be able to crit also. Good and bad news, if you think about having Drain Life as main filler spell. You wont have Imp SB up, and you will need Ruin, which will exclude taking Haunt (which can also crit, which of course is really crappy design thinking from Blizzard, not being able to have Haunt and Ruin).
This would seem like the perfect opportunity to give Drain Soul an overhaul and make it the filler for Affliction. Reduce it's channeled length, give each tick a chance to crit, when it crits provides an effect similar to ISB, something along those lines. But generally it would need something to differentiate it from Mind Flay.
In any case, ISB would have to be re-worked if they do decide to go the "dots crit" route.
You wont have Imp SB up, and you will need Ruin
Why would you need Ruin if you'd have a drain as filler spell? This implies you wouldn't be casting any destruction, hence making an investment in Ruin pointless.
This would seem like the perfect opportunity to give Drain Soul an overhaul and make it the filler for Affliction. Reduce it's channeled length, give each tick a chance to crit, when it crits provides an effect similar to ISB, something along those lines. But generally it would need something to differentiate it from Mind Flay.
In any case, ISB would have to be re-worked if they do decide to go the "dots crit" route.
Why would you need Ruin if you'd have a drain as filler spell? This implies you wouldn't be casting any destruction, hence making an investment in Ruin pointless.
This will effectively turn us into Shadow Priests, and I don't think the dev's would let that happen. Sadly, even with the changes to affliction, nothing is really new. At least in the destro tree they're trying to let you incorporate both shadow and fire spells instead of spamming a single nuke ad nauseam.
What they need to do to spice up Aff is give us an ability that instantly deals the damage a dot (or dots) would've done if you let it tick to completion.
If you look at some of the stats from drops/quests I've seen, it's looks like 75-78 blues are real close to T5/T6 items in terms of spell damage only. The items have significantly more stam/int/spirit though, and higher haste and crit numbers (which scale down). The exception is weapons where it looks like we might be equipping items with 350+ spell damage when we first head into Naxx. So in all, I guess 2k spell damage looks like a good estimate for a Naxx geared caster.
As far as fire destro, I think emberstorm (back to 10% haster maybe?) and emp imp are candidates to be scaled down..maybe S&F. The reason is to make room for F&B and Chaos bolt to actually have PvE value given their placement in the tree. But it goes back to what I said before..the ability to be able to crit over >50% of the time seems too big a jump..but then again, maybe it's intentional given the penalty crit classes with resilience.
It's frustrating not being in Beta where I can test these results myself, and nobody seems to be providing any test numbers because the trees are so NYI.
There's a pretty good chance the "something similar" remark means our drains will be able to crit also. Good and bad news, if you think about having Drain Life as main filler spell. You wont have Imp SB up, and you will need Ruin, which will exclude taking Haunt (which can also crit, which of course is really crappy design thinking from Blizzard, not being able to have Haunt and Ruin).
Ruin affects only Destruction spells.
Originally Posted by dexia
As far as fire destro, I think emberstorm (back to 10% haster maybe?) and emp imp are candidates to be scaled down..maybe S&F.
S&F, together with cast time reduction talents favor filler spells too much and the general way spells scale make other spells rather hard to catch up. A solution may be either including more spells in S&F (together with tuning it down if needed), or changing it to affect spell power to begin with so all spells can benefit. This would surely help making more spells desirable.
Affliction Warlocks already have something similar and it's called Improved Shadow Bolt. As for Mind Flay it has a horrible coefficient right now, something around 57% for a 3 sec spell, while proper coefficient for such spell is 85.7%, as the one Shadow Bolt has.
Has there been any word on ISB and DoTs though?
The tooltip (And, for the sake of clarity, that's the tooltip on the self-buff effect you actually gain when you crit, not the talent tooltip) still insists that it shouldn't work on DoTs, yet the ever-so-helpful Dr. Boom continues to suffer increased misfortune from DoTs in the wake of a crit, which means the tooltip or the effect is in error. Depending on the outcome of that it's questionable to say the least if it would really address affliction scaling. I'd also say that Koraa's statement did not sound to me like it was refering to an already existing implementation.
(I'm also a bit hesitant about the gear scaling, or rather, potential lack thereof with ISB. Without seeing any real math on it - my own attempts became to brutalized to give what I'd call valid results - the difference in uptime without gear and with gear, or again, the lack thereof has me a bit worried.)
Originally Posted by Fafhrd
No, Mind Flay will be able to crit, not recieve damage from crit.
There's a pretty good chance the "something similar" remark means our drains will be able to crit also. Good and bad news, if you think about having Drain Life as main filler spell. You wont have Imp SB up, and you will need Ruin, which will exclude taking Haunt (which can also crit, which of course is really crappy design thinking from Blizzard, not being able to have Haunt and Ruin).
My apologies for expressing myself sloppily; You're absolutely right, they're making Mindflay crit. In my defense though, since I did link to the post in question I didn't think there'd by room for misunderstanding of what I was saying.
Rather than speculate needlessly (actually, I did, but it never reached a conclusion, so I removed it) on whether they'll go for a significantly remodelled drain of one type or another or a synergized Shadowbolt, both of which have their advantages and disadvantages, I'll just reiteriate; This will be interesting
I'd say the odds of a critting drain are actually not as good as everyone else seems to think, "something similar" seems to me intentionally vague. They're looking at crit scaling, but they're aware that Drain Life is not the affliction filler like Mindflay is for shadow priests. Besides, it wouldn't actually do jack crap for affliction crit scaling because we'd be trading a critable filler for a lower-damage crittable filler. Shadow priests are getting a critting filler, we're getting something else, which may be a new viable affliction filler altogether, or other forms of crit scaling.
ISB in its current state, even as self-only, is not crit scaling for affliction. This will continue to be the case as long as the debuff has charges and a duration that rests on crits instead of increases on crits. If ISB is to be the affliction mechanism for haste and crit scaling the effect will have to be overhauled so that additional points of haste and crit are worth the same, DPS wise, as the last point and not less.
I get the sense they will give Affliction spells some static benefit from crit, so if you have 20% crit rating you will get some static increase in spell damage to affliction. Haste needs better affliction scaling IMHO, affecting the tick rate, but I don't see that happening.
Besides if it did that would mean all timer mods would all have to be rebuilt to modify based on haste. that could be messy >.< .
I get the sense they will give Affliction spells some static benefit from crit, so if you have 20% crit rating you will get some static increase in spell damage to affliction. Haste needs better affliction scaling IMHO, affecting the tick rate, but I don't see that happening.
Besides if it did that would mean all timer mods would all have to be rebuilt to modify based on haste. that could be messy >.< .
Using custom ui modification difficulty as a reason to not fix DoT dps is absurd and I seriously doubt such a though would ever cross a blizzard developer's mind.
Originally Posted by Vontre
Protip: I don't actually raid on my mage, it's more fun to make spreadsheets.
What they need to do to spice up Aff is give us an ability that instantly deals the damage a dot (or dots) would've done if you let it tick to completion.
I don't know... It would be rather powerful for PvP for instance. DoT the target up and then burn it away. But I guess it could become a game ot get DoTs to line up perfectly so you could 'release' them at the most oppertune moment.
Seems rather too powerful, and at the same time clunky, honestly.
But I will grant you that there should be an affliction ability like that of Totemic Recall. Push a button and you clear all DoTs from all targets you have dotted up. That should help immensely with aggroresetting bosses like Leo, Zul'jin etc. Those bosses are decidedly anti-dot bosses, and while most classes/specs can just decide not to use their dots alltogether certain others are sent into a problematic situation of not being able to do their best similar to nukers.
Perhaps let the skill grant some small bonus like a percentage mana, small haste, slight spellpower... Something. But even just clean it would be useful.
If you look at some of the stats from drops/quests I've seen, it's looks like 75-78 blues are real close to T5/T6 items in terms of spell damage only. The items have significantly more stam/int/spirit though, and higher haste and crit numbers (which scale down). The exception is weapons where it looks like we might be equipping items with 350+ spell damage when we first head into Naxx. So in all, I guess 2k spell damage looks like a good estimate for a Naxx geared caster.
As far as fire destro, I think emberstorm (back to 10% haster maybe?) and emp imp are candidates to be scaled down..maybe S&F. The reason is to make room for F&B and Chaos bolt to actually have PvE value given their placement in the tree. But it goes back to what I said before..the ability to be able to crit over >50% of the time seems too big a jump..but then again, maybe it's intentional given the penalty crit classes with resilience.
It's frustrating not being in Beta where I can test these results myself, and nobody seems to be providing any test numbers because the trees are so NYI.
I don't see why emberstorm or emp imp need to be scaled down, unless it is a universal dps down scale thing that affects all classes. Given that fire destruction warlock has least amount of utility out of all casters, it only make sense that they do slightly more damage than the next best dps caster, the fire mage.
As for F&B and chaos bolt being lackluster, I see it more as design issue. Incinerate should not be nurtured just to make two other lackluster talent seem good in comparison.
I don't see why emberstorm or emp imp need to be scaled down, unless it is a universal dps down scale thing that affects all classes. Given that fire destruction warlock has least amount of utility out of all casters, it only make sense that they do slightly more damage than the next best dps caster, the fire mage.
The entire goal behind buff/debuff stacking and raid-wide buffs is so that all DPS classes can do the same damage. Effectively, Blizzard is intending most 25-man raids to have all buffs and debuffs covered automatically (you'd almost have to specifically try and avoid some of them). Once that happens, if one class had higher DPS than others, that would be the only class that filled in the remaining spots. So really, our DPS (in any spec) should equal any other class who is spec'd to deal DPS.
That should help immensely with aggroresetting bosses like Leo, Zul'jin etc. Those bosses are decidedly anti-dot bosses
If one were to count the number of aggroresetting bosses, the number of bosses with high HP adds that are susceptable to multipul DoTing, and the number of movement heavy boss encounters I suspect there would be similar totals for the first case vs the second and third cases combined. Every spec has a weakness; the main problem with DoT heavy specs in TBC is not agroresets. It is that DoTs do not outperform nukes even on encounters that should favor DoT heavy specs.
For DoT scaling on affliction the simplest solution would be to add a talent, make automatic, or perhaps role into the haunt effect, adding your haste and crit %'s to your spell damage coefficents on every DoT. This would effectively be the same scaling a DD with a 1.0 coeffecient would get from haste and crit with ruin.
The entire goal behind buff/debuff stacking and raid-wide buffs is so that all DPS classes can do the same damage. Effectively, Blizzard is intending most 25-man raids to have all buffs and debuffs covered automatically (you'd almost have to specifically try and avoid some of them). Once that happens, if one class had higher DPS than others, that would be the only class that filled in the remaining spots. So really, our DPS (in any spec) should equal any other class who is spec'd to deal DPS.
Problem with that is the ideal number of class per raid is 2.
Even not considering moonkin has far more utility than destruction lock, moonkin and shaman both bring things like heroism, innervate, and battle rez, while an extra destruction lock just bring an extra ss.
I mean, lets say destruction lock do exact same damage as the moonkin. What incentive is there to have more than 1 warlock for HS. When an extra moonkin can bring extra innnerate and brez, or an extra shaman for the heroism, or an extra frost mage for better imp water elemental uptime.
The same applies to arcane mages and to lesser extend fire mages as well. But at least fire mages has the AOE thing going for them, and more mage at least means there are more counterspell.
As it stands, you can only hit Heroism twice on your average BC raid boss with the "Sated" debuff. A third Shaman is only useful in that regard if one of the other two die before they can hit their Bloodlust/Heroism.
The problem the Moonkin faces is that while they can provide almost every single caster buff by themselves, they sacrifice personal DPS to do so. Moonkin do not have enough points for all of their DPS talents even if they skip all the utility they can. As such, Moonkins will be happily speccing out of utility the moment they know there's a reliable replacement for that buff/debuff. That doesn't address Battle Rez/Innervate vs Healthstone/Soulstone, but it does address the potential for Moonkin to do equal DPS to Destruction Warlocks.
The incentive to have more than one Warlock for HS remains that you can have up to three different Healthstones via the talent in Demonology. Unless Healthstones also fall under the "Potion Sickness" rule of 1 per fight, it's useful to have multiple available. Destruction Warlocks will also gladly have an Imp out to add health to the raid.
In summary, there are concerns as to Warlock utility, but as it stands each spec brings a decent amount in addition to what's looking to be excellent damage. It's possible and even likely that a personal DPS specced Moonkin could equal Warlock DPS, but I don't see that as particularly threatening at this point.
The entire goal behind buff/debuff stacking and raid-wide buffs is so that all DPS classes can do the same damage. Effectively, Blizzard is intending most 25-man raids to have all buffs and debuffs covered automatically (you'd almost have to specifically try and avoid some of them). Once that happens, if one class had higher DPS than others, that would be the only class that filled in the remaining spots. So really, our DPS (in any spec) should equal any other class who is spec'd to deal DPS.
As it stands, you can only hit Heroism twice on your average BC raid boss with the "Sated" debuff. A third Shaman is only useful in that regard if one of the other two die before they can hit their Bloodlust/Heroism.
The problem the Moonkin faces is that while they can provide almost every single caster buff by themselves, they sacrifice personal DPS to do so. Moonkin do not have enough points for all of their DPS talents even if they skip all the utility they can. As such, Moonkins will be happily speccing out of utility the moment they know there's a reliable replacement for that buff/debuff. That doesn't address Battle Rez/Innervate vs Healthstone/Soulstone, but it does address the potential for Moonkin to do equal DPS to Destruction Warlocks.
The incentive to have more than one Warlock for HS remains that you can have up to three different Healthstones via the talent in Demonology. Unless Healthstones also fall under the "Potion Sickness" rule of 1 per fight, it's useful to have multiple available. Destruction Warlocks will also gladly have an Imp out to add health to the raid.
In summary, there are concerns as to Warlock utility, but as it stands each spec brings a decent amount in addition to what's looking to be excellent damage. It's possible and even likely that a personal DPS specced Moonkin could equal Warlock DPS, but I don't see that as particularly threatening at this point.
-You can't spec for different HS anymore, HS of all ranks are now unique with each other.
-Blood pact no longer stack with commanding shout, and commanding shout for all likely hood will be superior if not equal to blood pact.
-If we assume every spec do same damage, there is no such thing as excellent damage. There is only damage.
-Its fine if Blizzard want to give equal damage, but in return each class should have equal versatility and equal utility, and frankly that's simply not the case right now. Even if everything does become equal, there is simple fact that shaman and druid can spend 50g and become a healer or a tank. That is inherent versatility that pure dps classes can never hope to match.
I can see why Blizzard want to this, but they also must make it so that under ideal situations every 25 man raid need at least 2 of each class.
Now lets assume every spec has equal damage for all situations below:
-With current beta, moonkin and shaman for example simply has more utility and versatility than warlocks (and mages). Making them simply superior.
-Now, even assume it is somehow fixed and all dps spec offer same damage and same utility, there is still the fact a raid can go with 5 or 6 druids and have no issue. ie. 2 restro, 2 feral, 2 moonkin, etc. But reverse is not true, you cannot have 4 or 5 warlock or mage without seriously penalizing your raid. Thus making druid class inherently more versatile than mage or warlock can ever hope to be.
Which is why warlock (and other pure dps classes) need something that make them desirable in raid. Which is why IMO destruction lock need to retain their dps superiority or have a really, really good utility is given to destruction warlocks.
There are a number of issues of significance that are being completely overlooked in that analysis.
First, utility, where ever it is found, is found and the cost of DPS. All utility specs are sacrificing DPS talents to pick up utility talents so the argument 'brings more utility' obfuscates the real issue which is what class brings utility at the lowest cost to personal DPS. From the moonkin talents it seems plainly obvious that they can bring many caster buff, more than any one other class, but they do so at a massive cost to personal DPS. It is entirely possible that raids will prefer other casters for these same buffs because one moonkin with mostly DPS talents + other casters with mostly DPS talents and the utility the moonkin hasn't speced is a net gain for raid DPS.
Second, the law of large numbers dictates that, when random loot is random and difference classes and specs use significantly different pieces of gear, it is easier to equip several different class/spec combinations than it is to equip several of the same class/spec. This is especially applicable in the case of hybrid specs because the cost to switch to another roll is not 50g it is 50g plus the opportunity cost of looting off-sepc gear to a player that's only going to be using it 50% of the time or less. There's a chance a boomkin can use the same gear for healing and caster DPS but they would certainly require at least one additional, completely different set, for tanking and to be competent as a melee DPS another set for that.
Third, all of these arguments completely ignore the fact that there are different players controlling these classes in raids and some players are better than others. If the best moonkin you can find is better than everyone then yes, they're going to be your first raid caster DPS, however odds are good that the best player you can find of another caster DPS class is going to be better than the second best moonkin you can find.
There are a number of issues of significance that are being completely overlooked in that analysis.
First, utility, where ever it is found, is found and the cost of DPS. All utility specs are sacrificing DPS talents to pick up utility talents so the argument 'brings more utility' obfuscates the real issue which is what class brings utility at the lowest cost to personal DPS. From the moonkin talents it seems plainly obvious that they can bring many caster buff, more than any one other class, but they do so at a massive cost to personal DPS. It is entirely possible that raids will prefer other casters for these same buffs because one moonkin with mostly DPS talents + other casters with mostly DPS talents and the utility the moonkin hasn't speced is a net gain for raid DPS.
That depends entirely on how much a class has to sacrifice. It seems likely that what you describe last will happen. One moonkin specs all the utility for a dps loss while other moonkin spec pure damage and continue to bring better utility (innervate + combat rez > extra hs and soulstone) along with allowing the raid group more flexibility as they gather up healing leather/are able to spec heal if needed.
Originally Posted by tetracycloide
Second, the law of large numbers dictates that, when random loot is random and difference classes and specs use significantly different pieces of gear, it is easier to equip several different class/spec combinations than it is to equip several of the same class/spec. This is especially applicable in the case of hybrid specs because the cost to switch to another roll is not 50g it is 50g plus the opportunity cost of looting off-sepc gear to a player that's only going to be using it 50% of the time or less. There's a chance a boomkin can use the same gear for healing and caster DPS but they would certainly require at least one additional, completely different set, for tanking and to be competent as a melee DPS another set for that.
True, but in the warlock example, all of the boomkin and elemental shaman are capable of wearing all of the cloth non set gear, while warlocks are limited to the cloth gear. Unless blizzard makes 1/3 of the loot that drops cloth gear (and they won't), then its going to be an even bigger pain in WOTLK to gear up than it is in TBC (when you have 8-10 cloth dps casters in a raid all vying for the same few drops). And as you mention, its entirely possible that when we start getting deep into wotlk raiding and seeing epics with +spellpower/haste/crit/mp5 that those items will be more or less the same used by healers as by dps.
Originally Posted by tetracycloide
Third, all of these arguments completely ignore the fact that there are different players controlling these classes in raids and some players are better than others. If the best moonkin you can find is better than everyone then yes, they're going to be your first raid caster DPS, however odds are good that the best player you can find of another caster DPS class is going to be better than the second best moonkin you can find.
Completely irrelevant to whether extra moonkins are simply better than extra destro locks. We are at an expansion release, in which gear is reset and anyone can easily reroll to another class. Just because you can find a second warlock who is better than your second moonkin does not mean that moonkin are not superior to warlocks.
The entire goal behind buff/debuff stacking and raid-wide buffs is so that all DPS classes can do the same damage. Effectively, Blizzard is intending most 25-man raids to have all buffs and debuffs covered automatically (you'd almost have to specifically try and avoid some of them). Once that happens, if one class had higher DPS than others, that would be the only class that filled in the remaining spots. So really, our DPS (in any spec) should equal any other class who is spec'd to deal DPS.
Why on earth would I play a destro warlock, who is capable only of doing damage, when I can play an elemental shaman who can do as much casting damage as my warlock and then respec to heal if needed? The answer is I wont. You absolutely have to consider the flexibility of the class outside of its spec and even if it has another spec.
Why on earth would I play a destro warlock, who is capable only of doing damage, when I can play an elemental shaman who can do as much casting damage as my warlock and then respec to heal if needed? The answer is I wont.
Then the rest of us who happily love playing our warlocks will play them, and you can have fun playing your shaman. There is no happy special niche for any spec now. The basic needed buffs will be provided as long as you have at least one of each class, the specialty buffs will overlap to the point of being omnipresent, and 60% of the slots will be filled by who is the best player, not who has super uber buff or does 30% more dps. If you've had your raiding slot in BC just because it's really easy to spam shadowbolt and top the charts, you're going to lose it. If not to another class, then to some other warlock who is a better player.
Then the rest of us who happily love playing our warlocks will play them, and you can have fun playing your shaman. There is no happy special niche for any spec now. The basic needed buffs will be provided as long as you have at least one of each class, the specialty buffs will overlap to the point of being omnipresent, and 60% of the slots will be filled by who is the best player, not who has super uber buff or does 30% more dps. If you've had your raiding slot in BC just because it's really easy to spam shadowbolt and top the charts, you're going to lose it. If not to another class, then to some other warlock who is a better player.
Still doesn't change the fact mechanically, the hybrid would have advantage not only in versatility but in utility as well.
There are several issues with the whole equal utility equal damage thing as I have already stated.
1. With current beta, some specs (moonkin, shaman) simply have more utility than other specs and classes (destruction lock, arcane/fire mages). Of course, with current beta, fire/arcane mage and destruction lock also do a lot more damage, so it kinda evens out. But if damage is nerfed, then the balance is broken, so if you want equal in all things, a lot more utility needs to be added and a lot of damage nerf needs to be done.
2. Even with equal utility and equal damage across the board, the very simple fact shaman can wear cloth/leather/mail and can become melee dps or healer with 50g is vastly superior in terms of versatility. It basically comes down to. What is the advantage of the specialist when the generalist can do it just as well.
One could argue that because of role playing reasons or game play reasons or what not. That still doesn't change the balance between classes. Take meta for example, it is very cool talent with cool style of gameplay, but because it is so bad mechanically it is just plain bad talent.
1. Utility that can be replaced is not unique utility. There is no such thing as 'more utility' when there are 1-3 other classes/specs that can provide the same benifit; The argument you're applying to DPS applies equally to utility. Once the 15 buff/debuff slots in a raid are filled then you need 10 more players and if everyone does equal DPS the loot distribution and the player skill distribution will dictate even distribution of the DPS slots to the classes you don't already have i.e. so called 'pure DPS classes.' Which is a complete missnomer anyway because warlocks still have two other trees with raid utility.
2. An enhancement shaman requires a very specifcly itemized set of gear that is vastly different from a resto or elemental shaman. No class can suddenly perform a completely different raid function at a cost of only 50g. Everyone needs gear to perform and gear is a finite resource. Why gear the same character 3 times instead of distributing the gear to 3 different players that can all be online at once? Multipul gear sets for each raider slows progression and it's not something a progression minded guild is going to want to do unless they absolutely have to, and with other classes around doing the same DPS they won't have to.
The sky is not falling. Any raid leader with half a brain is not going to stack their raids with more than 3 of any one class if they have other alternatives.
Last edited by tetracycloide : 09/04/08 at 4:04 PM.
09/03/08, 3:34 AM
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