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Old 12/05/08, 4:55 PM   #301
Nicarras
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Scilla
I having a feeling that double tapping is going to be the way to go. I'm already starting to double tab while my dots are up to get used to it. That way the second tap is done and you have a fresh stack of this buff to refresh your dots with.

Gonna be nice, not I just need more badges/luck to finish my 4pc.
 
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Old 12/05/08, 5:43 PM   #302
Trickykid
King Hippo
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by PSGarak View Post
I have a question about optimal use of the 4T7 bonus. From Denjinmo's napkin math I take it as a given that it's not worth trying to keep up the buff. However, you will get some uptime out of it from normal play. So the question is how best to use it. It's not just 90 damage, it's 300 spirit, which means that lifetap itself gains more, relatively, from the buff than most of our spells do. So, is it better to spread out your lifetaps so more spells get 90 spellpower, or is it better to lifetap all at once so that you have huge lifetaps and cut the amount of tapping necessary? My gut says that running dry and lifetapping all at once is the optimal play, 900 mana per tap (nearly 1000 with kings) can probably save you at least one lifetap per mana bar, which is an amount of cast time that 90 spellpower to work pretty damn hard to make up for.
Why not just save the 2nd life tap for after 8-9 seconds? You still get the +300 spirit from that tap as well as getting almost double the duration of the buff for your damage spells from Fel Armor.
 
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Old 12/05/08, 6:41 PM   #303
turturin
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Echo Isles
Originally Posted by Chupavida View Post
What are your thoughts on the potential for items to see stats shuffled/buffed in 3.1, similar to what happened in 2.1? I picked up a [Damnation] in Naxx tonight, for no other reason than to narrow the pool of players fighting over [The Turning Tide] and to "take one for the team" as it were.

Am I stuck with a terribad staff? Or is there a chance that items will get a pass in 3.1, and/or Crit will becomes more useful for locks of all specs. At the moment, it's inferior to the [Flameheart Spell Scalpel] [Watchful Eye] combo I was using, and I'm hoping something changes to motivate me to equip it. As it stands, Pandemic is pretty sad, and it would be nice to see crit be a more worthwhile stat. It also seems like stuff is itemized better in general than it was when BC first hit, so a bunch of changes to tier gear and other items might not be necessary.
Blizzard's approach to itemization on staves has always been a bit underwhelming in my view. It's generally: Take the dps stats from the equivalent mainhand and bump them up slightly (but not nearly as much as a good offhand would bump those stats). Then, to compensate, add a bunch of stamina and intellect (i.e. survivability/longevity).

Most serious raiders would never intentionally opt for the latter, which often leaves the staves as the "If I have to settle...." items. I think this is an area where the game designers seem to hold the idea of "raid survivability through gear" in much higher esteem than the players do, in general

Even going back to the illidan staff vs ToC/CoDS combo, the staff only came out even if you didn't need the hit (i.e. if you were wasting some item points in the sword/OH combo, then the staff became worth it.

also, @melbuframa:
"While I figured you meant the Valorous parts the stats are not the same, there is a difference. It’s not huge but a difference none the less."

Yes I was also puzzled by his (her? w/e) logic here. Its akin to arguing that any iLevel 200 item is the same as any iLevel 213 item. The difference is never huge, but neither is it insignificant. In the context of a "best" in slot item discussion, it makes even less sense.
 
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Old 12/05/08, 7:27 PM   #304
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Trickykid View Post
Why not just save the 2nd life tap for after 8-9 seconds? You still get the +300 spirit from that tap as well as getting almost double the duration of the buff for your damage spells from Fel Armor.
Well played good sir.
Ok, new version of the old question: for optimal use of the 4T7 proc, if you have one filler spell and one liftap you want to cast in the next spell and will only get the proc active for one of them, which of them would it be more useful to spend it on? And followup: if lifetap is optimal, does that automatically imply that you should wait until you're almost dry before starting your lifetap process so you can chain this occurence for as many lifetaps as possible?

 
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Old 12/05/08, 8:28 PM   #305
Bergtau
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Blade's Edge
I've noticed that Haunt seems to have a bug on the heal. When the heal goes off, mobs that are running have been stopping to 'cast' the heal, which is giving me a bigger head start if I start off with Haunt when kiting. It'd be interesting to see 8 Warlocks vs. Patchwerk alternating Haunts.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 1:44 AM   #306
turturin
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Echo Isles
Originally Posted by PSGarak View Post
Well played good sir.
Ok, new version of the old question: for optimal use of the 4T7 proc, if you have one filler spell and one liftap you want to cast in the next spell and will only get the proc active for one of them, which of them would it be more useful to spend it on? And followup: if lifetap is optimal, does that automatically imply that you should wait until you're almost dry before starting your lifetap process so you can chain this occurence for as many lifetaps as possible?
I'll take a stab at it. My lifetap raid buffed is currently about 3000. 4pc t7 takes that to 3900, a 30% increase in the effectivness of the spell.

39% of 300 is 117 spell power. raid buffed i have about 2700 spellpower so 117 is about a 4% increase on the spellpower portion of any nuke i would cast (ignoring base dmg for a moment).

Even with debuffs or other dmg modifiers, 4% increase in effectiveness can't match a 30% increase in effectiveness.

The lifetap would be the better choice.

As to your second question...i don't think so. I think it implies that you should try to chain lifetaps at least every 9 seconds once you cast your first lifetap. In other words, use the first lifetap when you normally would, but try to lifetap again before the buff wears off, as it will be worth it in the long run to do so.

Of course, if you have "free lifetap time" (e.g. running to/standing behind the IB on sapphiron) the above may not be true.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 4:51 AM   #307
DiamondTear
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by Melbuframa View Post
While I figured you meant the Valorous parts the stats are not the same, there is a difference. It’s not huge but a difference none the less.
The stats are the same, there is just more of them in the Valorous gear. The list wasn't really made to answer the person who asked for it, but more for my own use, which is the reason for these "mistakes". I have changed the links now.

Originally Posted by turturin View Post
Even with debuffs or other dmg modifiers, 4% increase in effectiveness can't match a 30% increase in effectiveness.

The lifetap would be the better choice.
I'd like to know how far into the buff duration you need to be for lifetapping during it to be better than lifetapping after it. I've tried the tactic of using another lifetap right at the end of the duration, but often I have debuffs to recast when its duration is ending which complicates things.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 1:02 PM   #308
Talimar
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Nagrand (EU)
has anyone else experienced spells missing even when capped? I was doing utgarde keep a few days ago as deep destro. and I noticed while doing the first boss that my immolate missed, then after the instance was done I checked recount and it claimed immolate had missed 3 times.
my gear had almost 8% hit on it plus the 3 from talents which is way above the 6% heroic cap.

could this be a bug with immolate specifically or?
 
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Old 12/06/08, 1:27 PM   #309
Batuk
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warlock
 
Outland (EU)
Originally Posted by Talimar View Post
could this be a bug with immolate specifically or?
It's the glyph.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 1:39 PM   #310
Talimar
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Nagrand (EU)
Ok that's a relief to know I guess. Does immolate benefit at all from hit with the bug?

Last edited by Talimar : 12/09/08 at 9:07 AM.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 1:45 PM   #311
 Melbuframa
King of the Winglies
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Batuk View Post
It's the glyph.
I dissagree that is is the glyph. I had it happen before i started using it.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 3:27 PM   #312
Batuk
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warlock
 
Outland (EU)
Originally Posted by Melbuframa View Post
I dissagree that is is the glyph. I had it happen before i started using it.

Hm, you sure? I never once noticed that happening before I got that glyph.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 4:22 PM   #313
turturin
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Echo Isles
Originally Posted by Batuk View Post
Hm, you sure? I never once noticed that happening before I got that glyph.
Yes. I just got the glyph the day before yesterday (server availability sucks). I had immolate miss a whole bunch (or rather it just didn't refresh, WWS does not show it as missing).

If you armory me today, you might notice I'm not hit capped at the moment. I was at the time - i got quite a few upgrades this week but a net loss of hit.

Originally Posted by DiamondTear View Post
I'd like to know how far into the buff duration you need to be for lifetapping during it to be better than lifetapping after it. I've tried the tactic of using another lifetap right at the end of the duration, but often I have debuffs to recast when its duration is ending which complicates things.
I would assume that regardless of efficiency gain from lifetap, letting dots expire w/o immediate refresh would be a dps loss. Its unlikely any spec could get a perfect rotation on this and always keep the buff up without a dps loss, but i think in the situation PSGarak asked about previously where the choice is only between a nuke or a lifetap while the buff is up (and only one is possible), lifetap is the way to go.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 5:06 PM   #314
 Melbuframa
King of the Winglies
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Batuk View Post
Hm, you sure? I never once noticed that happening before I got that glyph.
Yep, ran our first naxx with Cor, COA and SL glyphs, vividly remember casting immo and having it do nothing, not miss, not resists, just fail.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 6:51 PM   #315
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
You can take this forecasting a bit further and ask, if you know the last spell (or n spells) you're going to cast with the buff are DoTs, should your last filler before that be a nuke or a lifetap? This more resembles my original question about just chain-lifetapping since you're cutting down on uptime. So it basically asks, how many times more powerful is that proc when used on a lifetap than a spell? Judging by the 4% vs 30% earlier, quite a lot, even if that is a rough estimate. So even if your last few spells are refreshing DoTs, your last filler before that should be to lifetap (so long as you're not wasting it) because the single buffed lifetap is worth more than the uptime of buff you're losing for it.

 
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Old 12/06/08, 9:00 PM   #316
Talimar
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Nagrand (EU)
if no one has already, could one of you american players report the bug? maybe we can get it fixed with the next patch.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 9:08 PM   #317
Crazyone
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Doomhammer
Yes I also noticed that my immolate was not hitting.....I would watch the cast bar and the see no dot appear on the mob.

Check recount and have no miss or immunes.


Is it the glyph? Don't know. but it's very distracting during a fight when you have a rotation and keep seeing a DoT not take.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 9:49 PM   #318
Eph
Grand Master Scribe
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Kil'Jaeden
It has been mentioned in one of these threads that it happens when you cast an Immolate while yours is still up.
 
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Old 12/06/08, 10:30 PM   #319
Talimar
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Nagrand (EU)
then it must be happening if immolate lands while old one is still up, meaning I've been slacking with clipping
have you tested if it always happens or is it random?
 
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Old 12/07/08, 4:25 AM   #320
Bergtau
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by Eph View Post
It has been mentioned in one of these threads that it happens when you cast an Immolate while yours is still up.
I've had it happen on the first application, so that can't be it.
 
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Old 12/07/08, 7:29 AM   #321
DiamondTear
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
I've had it happen on the first application, so that can't be it.
Mine only happens when I clip the dot (usually due to haste). Are you sure yours wasn't just a miss?
 
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Old 12/07/08, 8:50 AM   #322
rutiene
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Deathwing
Mine's happened on first application as well. Or when I know for sure it couldn't have clipped the last tick.
 
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Old 12/08/08, 12:21 AM   #323
Bergtau
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by DiamondTear View Post
Mine only happens when I clip the dot (usually due to haste). Are you sure yours wasn't just a miss?
I'm positive it's not a miss, I've noticed it the most when starting a new rotation because most/all of my DoTs have fallen off due to movement or something. I guess it's not the 'first' application, but it's when my Immolate isn't up. Perhaps it can be from somebody else having Immolate up as well?

Last edited by Bergtau : 12/08/08 at 12:23 AM. Reason: Engrish + Addition
 
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Old 12/08/08, 1:23 AM   #324
Nefeli
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Firetree
This may sound like a stupid question but im not quite 100% sure how to calculate the answer so...

I'm a demo/destro lock 0/41/30 felguard/ember. If there are 2 warlocks in the raid and my fellow lock is keeping up immolate (assume 100% of the time) is it actually better for my dps to eliminate immolate from my rotation and focus simply on Incinerates and CoA for MC?
 
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Old 12/08/08, 2:41 AM   #325
Zathrus
Glass Joe
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Bonechewer
I have compiled a WOTLK spreadsheet for warlock gear. I will add any missing gear (including mage/priest token gear) in the coming days. But I needed to get this done.

The file is a zip file with an xls file inside, it does not have any macros in it so you shouldn't get any questions about macro security.

To get the file, please see my blog post at: Shadow Trance

Last edited by Zathrus : 12/08/08 at 2:47 AM.
 
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