All things being created equal, is it a dps loss to cast both curse of agony and corruption in a rotation? Situation: I have a 30/41 destro spec, glyphs for both agony and corruption. General rotation has been curse > corr > immo > incin, repeat as they fall off. Is it best to cast just the curse (if I have to do a different curse, I throw corruption to proc MC)?
All things being created equal, is it a dps loss to cast both curse of agony and corruption in a rotation? Situation: I have a 30/41 destro spec, glyphs for both agony and corruption. General rotation has been curse > corr > immo > incin, repeat as they fall off. Is it best to cast just the curse (if I have to do a different curse, I throw corruption to proc MC)?
IIRC it was concluded that Cor is a DPS loss for destro if your DPCT for Incin comes out > then Cor.
As the 0/41/30 build with the 2pc T7 bonus, would it be better to use Corruption instead of Agony (glyphed, of course) as the non Immolate dot? Are the extra GCD's spent casting it worth the increased uptime of the crit buff, combined with the free (timewise, at least) occasional Shadowbolt?
Edit: No. At 2000 spellpower and 25% crit, even taking into account a 15% proc chance/tick on Corruption of 10% extra incinerate crit chance and additional shadowbolts, Corruption is still less damage with more GCD's involved. Excel is attached, if anyone would like to check my work.
Last edited by Shocktar : 12/08/08 at 2:23 PM.
Reason: Did the Excel
If you are clipping immolate there is a HIGH chance that your new immolate will NOT land. I have no idea why the spell is working like this but this is exactly what is happening.
If I wait to ensure immo falls off the target right as I'm applying and not refresh it beforehand, it will always hit my target. If I'm lazy and try and clip my immo, there is a high chance that it will 'miss/not land/whatever' and then I'll notice that no immo is up on the target at all.
If you are clipping immolate there is a HIGH chance that your new immolate will NOT land. I have no idea why the spell is working like this but this is exactly what is happening.
If I wait to ensure immo falls off the target right as I'm applying and not refresh it beforehand, it will always hit my target. If I'm lazy and try and clip my immo, there is a high chance that it will 'miss/not land/whatever' and then I'll notice that no immo is up on the target at all.
Strange for sure.
That's pretty much exactly what I'm seeing as well. I'll see if I can replicate it on the dummy later to determine the exact extent of the bug.
Question: Has anybody proven/disproven that you can down-rank Shadow Embrace and thus allow 2 Affliction Warlocks to benefit from it? (1 Warlock @ 10%, 1 Warlock @ 8%)
Ok this immolate bug is just getting weirder. Today in naxx I cast immolate as my old was running out, and I saw it do the direct damage as usual but when I looked at my target the dot wasn't there. This happened at least twice.
I did not clip. Although it was very close. The last dot tick and the direct damage showed up at the same time.
Last edited by Talimar : 12/09/08 at 9:06 AM.
Reason: capitalization!
I have compiled a WOTLK spreadsheet for warlock gear. I will add any missing gear (including mage/priest token gear) in the coming days. But I needed to get this done.
The file is a zip file with an xls file inside, it does not have any macros in it so you shouldn't get any questions about macro security.
To get the file, please see my blog post at: Shadow Trance
Thanks for this. 2 questions:
1. From where did you derive the relative values of crit/hit/SP/SPI/haste. I was under the impression that we didn't have a reliable source for that yet?
2. Is there a typo in the "Extract of Necromatic Power" trinket? How did you equate the dmg proc to = 500 spellpower. It seems really high.
1. Is the Immolate you are attempting to replace in any way better than the one you are trying to cast? (buffed by trinket procs or possibly a shadow embrace that is no longer up?)
2. Do you typically have haste buffs such as eradication or heroism when you notice this problem?
My current theory on the immolate bug is that the periodic effect is refusing to overwriting a more powerful spell. I know it may have seemed like you timed it absolutely perfectly, but is it possible that eradication threw off your timing just a little bit?
Well played good sir.
Ok, new version of the old question: for optimal use of the 4T7 proc, if you have one filler spell and one liftap you want to cast in the next spell and will only get the proc active for one of them, which of them would it be more useful to spend it on? And followup: if lifetap is optimal, does that automatically imply that you should wait until you're almost dry before starting your lifetap process so you can chain this occurence for as many lifetaps as possible?
Originally Posted by PSGarak
You can take this forecasting a bit further and ask, if you know the last spell (or n spells) you're going to cast with the buff are DoTs, should your last filler before that be a nuke or a lifetap? This more resembles my original question about just chain-lifetapping since you're cutting down on uptime. So it basically asks, how many times more powerful is that proc when used on a lifetap than a spell? Judging by the 4% vs 30% earlier, quite a lot, even if that is a rough estimate. So even if your last few spells are refreshing DoTs, your last filler before that should be to lifetap (so long as you're not wasting it) because the single buffed lifetap is worth more than the uptime of buff you're losing for it.
I'll use 2700 mana per life tap (~400 spirit) and 1.3 second gcd (15.4% haste), although it's not going to really matter!
1) Is the 300 spirit best used on a life tap or on a filler spell? (This ignores the DPS gained from ~9 more seconds of the buff.)
Without Imp LT: +900 mana saves gcd*900/LT_mana = .43 seconds. I used this WWS for two different DPCTs (one for demo and one for affliction). For demo, DPCT of filler was ~3400, for affliction DPCT of filler was ~2750. This translates to 1460 damage for demo and 1185 for affliction.
If that had been used on a demo nuke, it would be 300*.39 = 117 more spell power for the one nuke. No coefficient would bring that in line with the DPS gained from the life tap.
If this had been used on a DoT instead, you'd get 1.3 more seconds of that DoT, or roughly one half a tick. The highest average tick (UA) from the affliction lock in the above parse was less than 1600. Gaining an extra half tick of that is only 800 damage compared to the 1185 picked up in filler-time. This line gets fuzzier if you're tapping for more (after getting more spirit), so it's probably just worth it to tap before needing to refresh a DoT.
2) Should we deplete all mana to string taps together?
In general I think this is a good idea on any fight where there isn't room for "free taps", just because it gets you closer to being able to hit the end of the fight with zero mana. Also, since there is a gain from using the last spell of a +300 spirit buff on another tap, it's optimal to use as many of them for that purpose as possible. This is purely in a vacuum of Life tap 4 times evenly spread through the fight or all bunched at the end when they could be "strung" together. It's worth nothing that if you're able to, you could do this at any point in the fight as long as you're amazing at predicting the amount of other mana regen you'll have and end with no mana. Psychics aside, tapping at the end is probably superior.
I'd call this pretty low impact either way, in the parse there, the affliction lock only tapped 6 times and the demo lock only 3. Given that we're talking about saving fractions of life taps, you're likely to get even less of the benefit (or none) if you don't end up tapping enough to get a full new saved gcd. Unless you're very handy, the cleanest way is just to tap when you normally do and pick up the buffs along the way. "Ideally" string them together so long as you still end up with less than one life tap worth of mana by the end of the fight.
2) Should we deplete all mana to string taps together?
In general I think this is a good idea on any fight where there isn't room for "free taps", just because it gets you closer to being able to hit the end of the fight with zero mana. Also, since there is a gain from using the last spell of a +300 spirit buff on another tap, it's optimal to use as many of them for that purpose as possible. This is purely in a vacuum of Life tap 4 times evenly spread through the fight or all bunched at the end when they could be "strung" together. It's worth nothing that if you're able to, you could do this at any point in the fight as long as you're amazing at predicting the amount of other mana regen you'll have and end with no mana. Psychics aside, tapping at the end is probably superior.
One of the things I neglected when I first thought and wrote about this question was the replenishment mechanic. The raiders with the lowest mana get priority on the buff proc iirc. This probably makes the situation more complex as your mana level relative to everyone else's mana level at some point "t" time into the fight is what determines the buff, but in general it means we should probably "try" to get to a low mana range and lifetap only within that range, perhaps even disregarding the 4pc spirit proc. If anyone has a good way to model this tradeoff, I'd love to see it. I'm afraid its beyond my skill with numbers to derive this.
One of the things I neglected when I first thought and wrote about this question was the replenishment mechanic. The raiders with the lowest mana get priority on the buff proc iirc. This probably makes the situation more complex as your mana level relative to everyone else's mana level at some point "t" time into the fight is what determines the buff, but in general it means we should probably "try" to get to a low mana range and lifetap only within that range, perhaps even disregarding the 4pc spirit proc. If anyone has a good way to model this tradeoff, I'd love to see it. I'm afraid its beyond my skill with numbers to derive this.
I don't really think we should be taking Replenishment away from others on purpose assuming there's only 1 person providing it. With 2-3 people, you're solid, but with only one Replenishment, it seems more suited to go to whoever needs it the most instead of whoever wants it.
Horrible in every situation, or just bad for some?
I know Seed is our bread and butter AoE, but in 5/6 mob pulls where I've seeded the pack down to two or three mobs left, and switch over to RoF, is that just biting myself in the ass?
On AoE pulls in general, I tend to chuck up a corruption (just for lucky ticks on the glyph, i'm destro), then just spam Seed over and over while the rest of the group 'sets it off'. Once we get it down to two mobs or so, I'll switch to RoF since a seed doesn't hurt the target it's applied to. Shadowflame if in range, but I don't waste time walking around.
AoE heroic runs where the tank grabs the whole room really lets my DPS shine as a newish 80 in a few heroic purples and mostly blues, so I want to do the best I can in these situations. Thanks.
I think people will see that the Immolate problem is because the original Immolate had a higher spell damage assign to it, and you get the "A higher spell is already present" type error. Yes, a bug for sure. That mechanic should only apply to debuffs.
Horrible in every situation, or just bad for some?
I know Seed is our bread and butter AoE, but in 5/6 mob pulls where I've seeded the pack down to two or three mobs left, and switch over to RoF, is that just biting myself in the ass?
On AoE pulls in general, I tend to chuck up a corruption (just for lucky ticks on the glyph, i'm destro), then just spam Seed over and over while the rest of the group 'sets it off'. Once we get it down to two mobs or so, I'll switch to RoF since a seed doesn't hurt the target it's applied to. Shadowflame if in range, but I don't waste time walking around.
AoE heroic runs where the tank grabs the whole room really lets my DPS shine as a newish 80 in a few heroic purples and mostly blues, so I want to do the best I can in these situations. Thanks.
I suppose for trash seed works fine. For Boss add AoE it's horribly, horribly mana inefficient in comparison to RoF though. I've stopped using seed altogether in favor of RoF.
There is a cap for DoTs anyway, the GCD can't be shorter than 1 sec (so if you pick Amplify Curse, all your curses are already capped).
As for diminishing returns: I have no idea.
Question: Has anybody proven/disproven that you can down-rank Shadow Embrace and thus allow 2 Affliction Warlocks to benefit from it? (1 Warlock @ 10%, 1 Warlock @ 8%)
We'll test this with 2 warlocks. Player 1 and player 2 will both cast CoA, and then we will alternate trials with one or both casting SB, using the boss training dummy.
Im a bit confused. Im currently specd 51/0/15.
My rotation runs Huant/SB/UA/IMM/COR/COA/SL/ SB spam and keep refreshing. after 25% im using DS for my filler. I have 369 Hit 286 Haste and hover between 1.7k-2k spell dmg depending on group. I use a dot timer to ensure my dots dont fall behind or get clipped.
I can break 3.2k dps on patchwerk but have yet to see anything close to 3.8 or 4k Can anyone tell me what im doing wrong? or do i just need to go respec Destro and lrn 2 play again?
Last do we stand much of a chance against Death knights and Rogues on the meters any more?
Do you have a WWS of your performance lately? Keep in mind that lots of these people posting their top DPS have much more gear than you do also.
There's also the fact that when as the rest of your raid is slow, it artificially lowers your DPS because you don't have as much time with Heroism up relative to how long the boss is up.
Back to Immolate. I don't understand how my first application or a subsequent application that happened after Immolate had fallen off due to movement could be explained with a higher spell damage total on the first application.
12/08/08, 12:49 PM
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