Is there a set conversion for Int and what crit strike rating you get from it, and is it affected by spec as well. Please and thank you to any answers.
I've been raiding as 0/41/30.. I've broken 2200 spell power/20 %crit for trash (when I switch to hit gear...I settle at roughly 400 hit, 2000 sp, 20% crit..
FG/ember has served me well, but is it time to respec to something more powerful? I really have enjoyed this simple rotation, but if 56/0/15 is going to be a disgustingly awesome increase in damage, I may give it a try...
Or should I move to 0/30/40 +1 ...I think I've heard people say the 2nd build scales better as spell power increases...
Well I was 0/41/30 and switched to affliction last week (I did play affliction through Kara and into early T5 in TBC, so it wasn't completely foreign). On patchwerk, I did about the same (~4400 dps) as I had done the previous week with 0/41/30. I know from looking at the parse (uptime, clipping, forgetting Drain Soul until 18% or so), that I could have done much better as affliction (5k dps doesn't seem unreasonable). Despite all of that, i swtiched back to 0/41/30 after we had cleared the weekly content.
While I think I could eliminate the inefficiencies in my play relative to Dot uptime, etc....I don't think the fact that I'm less "environmentally aware" with affliction would be an easy thing to remedy. Case in point: like a complete retard, i stood in one of KT's pink circles this week.
As to 0/30/40+1, someone showed how they inputted real numbers into simulcraft and came to find that it doesn't outscale 0/41/30 at any realistic gear level right now or expected in WoTLK. This result suprised me, but its the best work I've seen on the subject so far, so I don't doubt it until someone shows otherwise.
tldr: Affliction does provide at least 10% more dps but is more than 10% harder to play imho. 0/41/30 appears to trump 0/30/40 +1 for as far as we can see until someone shows otherwise.
Affliction is only a tad harder to play but pumps out higher damage than 41/30 and 30/40+1. So why is it that a lot of high end raiding locks (ie 2 in Ensidia) are using these hybrid specs? I see a lot of arguments about situational awareness and how SnF scales well, but I personally do not find affliction that much harder to play than these two specs. Furthermore, I'm also doing less damage after switching from affliction to the hybrids.
Is there something about the hybrid specs I have not picked up on?
Affliction is only a tad harder to play but pumps out higher damage than 41/30 and 30/40+1. So why is it that a lot of high end raiding locks (ie 2 in Ensidia) are using these hybrid specs? I see a lot of arguments about situational awareness and how SnF scales well, but I personally do not find affliction that much harder to play than these two specs. Furthermore, I'm also doing less damage after switching from affliction to the hybrids.
Is there something about the hybrid specs I have not picked up on?
It's easy to assume that high end guilds are theorycrafting hard and mix/maxing their chars, but as guides made by Nihilum members have shown, this is not the case. They get world firsts because of the time they spend playing (and maybe skill, I wouldn't know).
Min/Maxing the way EJ does it is very time consuming and Affliction's learning curve makes it difficult to manage around learning new fights quickly. I'd imagine easier manageability and being able to execute neatly quicker would be the primary reasons.
Affliction is only a tad harder to play but pumps out higher damage than 41/30 and 30/40+1. So why is it that a lot of high end raiding locks (ie 2 in Ensidia) are using these hybrid specs? I see a lot of arguments about situational awareness and how SnF scales well, but I personally do not find affliction that much harder to play than these two specs. Furthermore, I'm also doing less damage after switching from affliction to the hybrids.
Is there something about the hybrid specs I have not picked up on?
Is this not simply because of the SE bug with Affliction that "forces" using these other specs?
I'd bet the piggy bank that most people do not want the added stress of having to maintain so many DOT's at once.
I just recently completed all 4 wings of Naxx with my guild and we are now attempting Sapph... For most of the fights, I do believe I could have flourished as affliction (I have yet to use 56/0/15 at 80, but I've gone the afflic route before...)
However, there are other fights where I can't even imagine perfectly maintaining a DOT rotation and having to worry about environmental stuff at the same time... (notably Thaddius..)
I guess practice makes perfect right?
Interestingly enough, there's 3 main locks in our 25mans...
The guild leader is the best geared and has around 2600 spell power (I think..) he finished 1 or 2 in dmg every fight and uses 0/30/40 +1
I'm 2nd best geared, have about 2300 spell power now... (got valorous legs last night!) , am 0/41/30 and finish between 5-10 in dmg...
Our 3rd lock is the least geared..probably has 2000 spell power...runs 56/0/15, and usually doesn't break the top 10...
What do you think is the bigger problem, gear or skill? (assuming it's not both!)
Gear and skill plays a role but Blizzard did a good job at least for now in making all of the tree's on somewhat equal ground to start this expansion. In TBC affliction was king at the start then we all made the switch to destruction as it was far superior. As of now all 3 are viable and put out roughly the same DPS.
Maintaining DoT's on fights is a challenge and is often interrupted by environmental factors which has led me to conclude that raiding as affliction is the most difficult and involved as to reach full potential of an affliction spec one needs to know all of the DPCT's of each and every spell as when your "perfect" rotation gets interrupted due to movement or whatever you need to know which spell to cast first assuming all of your DoT's/Debuffs haven't fallen off. I think a large factor as to why affliction has remained competitive despite rotations being wrecked by movement etc... is because of the strength of Drain Soul at 25%. If you look at WWS's, most affliction lock's get a very large chunk of damage from Drain Soul.
I've spent time as both Affliction and 0/41/30. I like the FG and the flexibility it gives me outside 25 man raids. Overall, my DPS was highest as Affliction (though I am tinkering with a 53/3/15 and using an Imp right now), but I enjoyed playing 0/41/30 more (especially outside of 25 man raids).
I have to be honest..I AM quite tempted to give it a go, and see how my damage is... I will miss my little felguard
Now the big question is whether or not the patch comes out today, and whether or not they fix the felhunter issue...
Hopefully someone will post here as soon as they find out!
Felguard spec is easier, if you dont have a good dot timer and practice juggling the dots you will do bad. Affliction takes practice.
A lot of the difference in locks is purely skill at this point, the gear is easy enough to get. You have to study your dot uptimes and frequency of your other spells to other locks in similar situations.
Yes at times, its a lot of math.
Or you can skip all that and just play easy mode felguard spec. I say easy mode because the rotation, while not just SB spam, really isnt that much more difficult.
I have to be honest..I AM quite tempted to give it a go, and see how my damage is... I will miss my little felguard
Now the big question is whether or not the patch comes out today, and whether or not they fix the felhunter issue...
Hopefully someone will post here as soon as they find out!
Your damage will be bad at first. I have been playing AFF now since I hit 80 and our guild clears naxx25 every tuesday and should do 3 drakes this wednesday.
When I first started raiding AFF, my eyes were glued to the timers (highly recommend "buttontimers"). Now I have been playing AFF long enough to get a better feel for stuff and my eyes are not glued to the timers as much.
The issue with raiding as affliction is really "muscle memory". Until you get very comfortable and most of your decision making is exercised through muscle memory, your DPS is going to be so-so. By muscle memory I mean looking at the timers and knowing, without really thinking, you are going to UA/Immo/Haunt/SB/SB. Then look again, and know you are going to LT/SL/SB/Haunt/UA/Immo. Etc, Etc ... and of course making sure you are not standing in the FIRE!
The first step to learning AFF is getting used to the priorities of the casts. AFF is really based around Haunt. Everything, including DS revolves around this one spell. It has to never fall off, yet casting too soon is actually a DPS loss. As you approach 25% you have to make sure your *house* is in order so when you hit the mark you are ready to DS (or after a cast or two) and still keeping Haunt up ... and then mixing DS in while maintaining dots (including Haunt) is hug. Especially being able to hit 1 or 2 ticks of DS perfectly before refreshing dots (You almost never evAr let DS go for more then 3 ticks). And of course, getting a feel for when dropping dot and just letting DS tick off for the kill of the boss is more of an art then science.
After making sure that Haunt doesn't fall off, and your DS house is in order, generally the next challenge is to get as many SB's off as is humanly possible, while still keeping your dots up. At first this was my biggest DPS problem ... not enough of my damage was coming from SB, which meant I wasn't casting enough of them.
Although I am very used to AFF now and there are some bosses where it shines, it really is WAAAAY too much work for marginal DPS gains over the other spec's. This much work should yield a much more substantial DPS increase.
Your damage will be bad at first. I have been playing AFF now since I hit 80 and our guild clears naxx25 every tuesday and should do 3 drakes this wednesday.
When I first started raiding AFF, my eyes were glued to the timers (highly recommend "buttontimers"). Now I have been playing AFF long enough to get a better feel for stuff and my eyes are not glued to the timers as much.
The issue with raiding as affliction is really "muscle memory". Until you get very comfortable and most of your decision making is exercised through muscle memory, your DPS is going to be so-so. By muscle memory I mean looking at the timers and knowing, without really thinking, you are going to UA/Immo/Haunt/SB/SB. Then look again, and know you are going to LT/SL/SB/Haunt/UA/Immo. Etc, Etc ... and of course making sure you are not standing in the FIRE!
The first step to learning AFF is getting used to the priorities of the casts. AFF is really based around Haunt. Everything, including DS revolves around this one spell. It has to never fall off, yet casting too soon is actually a DPS loss. As you approach 25% you have to make sure your *house* is in order so when you hit the mark you are ready to DS (or after a cast or two) and still keeping Haunt up ... and then mixing DS in while maintaining dots (including Haunt) is hug. Especially being able to hit 1 or 2 ticks of DS perfectly before refreshing dots (You almost never evAr let DS go for more then 3 ticks). And of course, getting a feel for when dropping dot and just letting DS tick off for the kill of the boss is more of an art then science.
After making sure that Haunt doesn't fall off, and your DS house is in order, generally the next challenge is to get as many SB's off as is humanly possible, while still keeping your dots up. At first this was my biggest DPS problem ... not enough of my damage was coming from SB, which meant I wasn't casting enough of them.
Although I am very used to AFF now and there are some bosses where it shines, it really is WAAAAY too much work for marginal DPS gains over the other spec's. This much work should yield a much more substantial DPS.
That was beautifully written. Very informative, nice job. Pretty much summed up what the deal is with affliction... I think I may wait to respec... At least until I'm more comfortable with all the Naxx fights...since I've only ever done 1 full clear (minus Sapp and KT) (plus a few random bosses with pugs here and there..)
I wonder if affliction would be better if they removed the necessity to have to shadowbolt in your DOT downtime.... Let's say they threw ANOTHER DOT into the mix.... I know what you are thinking.... but what if it's a DOT that does absolutely insane damage...enough to more than make up for shadowbolt spamming.... so now your sole focus is to just keep all DOT's up on the target for 100% of the fight.....would that be easier or harder? (I can't answer, since I've not raided as afflic at 80..)
Or you can skip all that and just play easy mode felguard spec. I say easy mode because the rotation, while not just SB spam, really isnt that much more difficult.
I don't want to overstate the difficulty invovled in 0/41/30, but i do think its a significant step above old 0/21/40 sb spam.
3 different dot's on timers that don't align at all and a pet that is fire an forget, but whose death will cost your dps dearly (losing FG dps + DK + MD = big dps loss). While this isn't hard in the context of affliction rotations, its not easy in anywhere near the same way that SB spam was. I think its actually a good example of where blizzard has found the middle ground: requires some skill to maximize dps, but isn't so complex that it becomes "un-fun" or the "only" thing one can pay attention to during the boss fight.
I don't want to overstate the difficulty invovled in 0/41/30, but i do think its a significant step above old 0/21/40 sb spam.
3 different dot's on timers that don't align at all and a pet that is fire an forget, but whose death will cost your dps dearly (losing FG dps + DK + MD = big dps loss). While this isn't hard in the context of affliction rotations, its not easy in anywhere near the same way that SB spam was. I think its actually a good example of where blizzard has found the middle ground: requires some skill to maximize dps, but isn't so complex that it becomes "un-fun" or the "only" thing one can pay attention to during the boss fight.
Quoted for truth...even when you take into consideration that you don't want your incinerates hitting without immolate being up...It's almost like Immolate is our equivalent to Haunt.. (not as extreme but you get the idea..)
Simple Question:
Does the Sundial of the Exalted proc of DoT applications? I don't think it's worth it if not.
Edit:
Uno mas: Imp or Felhunter for Affliction raiding?
What is the flight time, in seconds, for Haunt? For example, at max range or at 15ish yards (for a Thaddius fight). I'm asking this to decide how soon after CD to recast Haunt to ensure zero Haunt downtime in situations where I have less than a GDC to spend (ie casting an instant would cause Haunt to be cast, travel, and hit but with a short downtime/"off"time).
What is the flight time, in seconds, for Haunt? For example, at max range or at 15ish yards (for a Thaddius fight). I'm asking this to decide how soon after CD to recast Haunt to ensure zero Haunt downtime in situations where I have less than a GDC to spend (ie casting an instant would cause Haunt to be cast, travel, and hit but with a short downtime/"off"time).
Not to sound condescending but that's very easily worked out with just a few minutes at a target dummy in any of the major cities.
Not to sound condescending but that's very easily worked out with just a few minutes at a target dummy in any of the major cities.
I was wondering if anyone had access to the numbers, rather than me trying to guestimate with a stopwatch, etc. Also a question about general time-of-flight mechanics: if the target moves, does the time dynamically change, or is it defined once the projectile is in the air? I don't think that could be answered with a stationary dummy.
I was wondering if anyone had access to the numbers, rather than me trying to guestimate with a stopwatch, etc. Also a question about general time-of-flight mechanics: if the target moves, does the time dynamically change, or is it defined once the projectile is in the air? I don't think that could be answered with a stationary dummy.
It seems like a good question....especially for the hardcore people
Although, I'd imagine that what you are asking for might be too hard to put a finger on....
You mentioned a target moving..... How do you know when the target will move? How do you know what direction he's going to move in? Is the target going to move that far away where it will really make that much of a difference? Then you have to consider all the fights (like Grobbulus) where you have to move around a lot...
Perhaps casting while Grobbulus or Archavon are running and you can see the direction they are heading (toward/away from you), or as Sapphiron is taking off. Trying to time the flight with a stopwatch at a training dummy should work, but I was wondering if projectile velocity had been datamined in the past, and if it's the same for all ranged spells.
In all honesty, do you feel that knowing this number is going to improve your DPS?
I'm a little blown away at the moment, because personally, I don't think I'd be able to dedicate any more brain cells toward calculating ranges and distance times based on the mob's movement. Maybe I'm just not hardcore enough, hahaha.
If you think you can make that info work for you, then you definitely deserve a pat on the back and a big "Hell Yeah!"
Just seems to me that affliction gives a player enough crap to worry about...but maybe that's why I'm not affliction
Nah I can understand why affliction would seem to be daunting to players not used to juggling six dots and two fillers, but after you get used to it affliction isn't all that tough to play. At first I had tunnel vision and the task of keeping up all the dots sapped a lot of my attention, but after awhile it only took occasional glances at my dot timer for me to know when to refresh a debuff. You kinda learn how to estimate buff expiration times after a lot of practice. Emphasis on "a lot".
12/22/08, 8:12 PM
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