Kaib, what is your experience in terms of actual DPS numbers on your raids? For example: Hunters doing ~3.3k, Rogues doing around 3k, Destro Locks doing around 3k? I'm curious what the relative numbers are compared to your spec.
i just skimmed through the thread so somebody mightve asked this already but...
has anyone tried 31/0/40 in a raid setting yet? i was thinking of trying it out once i hit 80 and my guild starts raiding again but id feel better about it if somebody else had tried it already and could give some feedback on it. the spec i was going to try would be something like this:
and it would basically revolve around using corruption and coa for molten core procs (and eradication whenever the rng feels like throwing you a bone) but with them getting big damage boosts from the affliction tree, namely shadow mastery and improved/empowered corruption and agony. then the bulk of the damage would come from a standard immo/incinerate rotation.
edit: whoops im dumb and linked to the talent calc and not the build.. lulz
Shadow Mastery, ISB and Shadow and Flame look strong to me, and the initial rotation would be something like: SB, SB (for Shadow Embrace), CoA, Corr, SL, then SB spam until you need to refresh dots. Shadow Bolt would hit hard, your DoTs would be strong, you get both hit talents. The pet (probably imp) would be weak, though, and you would need to waste a point on improved Immo.
I'll be 80 tomorrow and I will try that out, but if anyone else already has some feedback, that would be nice.
the only reason im leaning towards incin instead of shadowbolt is the destro tree in general is much more geared towards fire... improved immolate does nothing for a shadowbolt build but you basically HAVE to dump at least a point into it like you said.
The main problem I see with your spec is that the 5 points in Shadow Mastery do not benefit your main nuke, and that's a big issue. Furthermore, I don't have the math, but I believe Conflag without Backdraft is always a DPS loss, and the points in Fel Concentration are useless (you don't have UA nor Haunt, you won't cast drains during raids).
The spec I suggested does waste a point in Improved Immolate. But this is what I like about it: I believe SBs should hit almost as hard as they did in the old 0/21/40 days (since Shadow Mastery now is essentially the old Demonic Sacrifice, even though ISB was nerfed), but you would still have a pet DPS'ing and much stronger DoTs. I don't know if that's enough to compete with any of the "deep" specs, but I'm willing to try it out.
The spec I suggested does waste a point in Improved Immolate. But this is what I like about it: I believe SBs should hit almost as hard as they did in the old 0/21/40 days (since Shadow Mastery now is essentially the old Demonic Sacrifice, even though ISB was nerfed), but you would still have a pet DPS'ing and much stronger DoTs. I don't know if that's enough to compete with any of the "deep" specs, but I'm willing to try it out.
yeah the point about shadow mastery being an old demonic sacrifice is pretty good.. i didnt even think about that. i just wanted shadow mastery for the extra damage on corruption/agony that youre going to be putting up for molten core procs. fel concentration i agree is useless, so maybe something like this which gets you a 3rd point into cataclysm and suppression?
i got conflag because i figure sometimes youre going to have to move around when immolate is about to expire so you might as well conflag it for more damage than the last tick.
yeah the point about shadow mastery being an old demonic sacrifice is pretty good.. i didnt even think about that. i just wanted shadow mastery for the extra damage on corruption/agony that youre going to be putting up for molten core procs. fel concentration i agree is useless, so maybe something like this which gets you a 3rd point into cataclysm and suppression?
i got conflag because i figure sometimes youre going to have to move around when immolate is about to expire so you might as well conflag it for more damage than the last tick.
That's actually very intresting. I tweaked it a little, to this. Dropping Immolate from rotation and sticking with with CoA, Corr and SB spam. The gcd savings of amplify curse will add up to quite a many shadow bolts in the end.
edit: It seems like a very efficient dps spec, and it's easy enough to play (as opposed to affli) that you'll be available for clicking the cubes and won't stand in fires. Hoorah for SB spams return :P
That's actually very intresting. I tweaked it a little, to this. Dropping Immolate from rotation and sticking with with CoA, Corr and SB spam. The gcd savings of amplify curse will add up to quite a many shadow bolts in the end.
edit: It seems like a very efficient dps spec, and it's easy enough to play (as opposed to affli) that you'll be available for clicking the cubes and won't stand in fires. Hoorah for SB spams return :P
Er, have you guys looked at the spec I posted in post #103? It still looks better than the ones you're proposing: if you are not going to be casting Immolate, there's absolutely no reason to put points in Emberstorm and Molten Core. Better to use those points in Demonic Power to buff your imp a little bit, Soul Leech and Nether Protection. In the Affliction side, I'd much rather max out Shadow Embrace (which will always be up) than to put points in Nightfall and Eradication (which proc randomly).
That's actually very intresting. I tweaked it a little, to this. Dropping Immolate from rotation and sticking with with CoA, Corr and SB spam. The gcd savings of amplify curse will add up to quite a many shadow bolts in the end.
edit: It seems like a very efficient dps spec, and it's easy enough to play (as opposed to affli) that you'll be available for clicking the cubes and won't stand in fires. Hoorah for SB spams return :P
I would agree with you however just looking at numbers, isn't 30/41 inherently better? You get 15% to fire from Destro, SnF, AND you get 5% fire and 5% crit to fire from MD not to mention a more powerful Imp? It seems to be an overall higher boosting build as opposed to an SM one.]
edit: looks like Faldreth and I are saying the exact same thing :p
Seeing as i haven't found this info elsewhere. What is the minimum lvl of haste and crit for raiding, along with as i think is its 288-300 for spell hit; correct me if im wrong. just wanted to know where locks stood in terms of spell damage numbers and what not.
Hi!
I thought about this build some times ago, so tried Shadow Mastery + Shadow and Flame (30/0/40+1) in heroic and I'm impressed... simple to use and seems efficient.
I have 1594 spell power - 200 Spell Hit - 16,47% Spell Crit - 252 Haste Rating.
With the new "heroic badge" trinket: [Sundial of the Exiled], I nuked with 9k Shadow Bolts (but I have still T6 4 pieces bonus) with only druid's buff (mark) and firestone.
I still must try this build in raid.
Anyway I tried also 0/20/51, is quite good, especially for my guild friend, but in fights like Sapphiron in Naxx is a little bit too difficoult to keep our minion alive and the problem is also present on other fights and I see that without our imp with this build our dps is a little too weak.
With affliction my problem was debuff limit and haunt miss, that in many cases has ruined my rotation because of my low spell hit.
Regarding 30/0/40+1 build, here there is a report from my tests on target dummy with recount. I'm not using buffs like flasks, elixyrs etc... I'm in solo, with my Imp out, I'm only with my Fel Armor and Firestone up.
This build must be tested in raid.
My 50 cents.
Seeing as i haven't found this info elsewhere. What is the minimum lvl of haste and crit for raiding, along with as i think is its 288-300 for spell hit; correct me if im wrong. just wanted to know where locks stood in terms of spell damage numbers and what not.
thanks
It doesn't work like that. The only thing remotely resembling a magic number is spell hit, and even then you don't actually need to cap it, it's just the most DPS-efficient use of item budget until you do. For the rest of it, your only benchmark is going to be total DPS, not any particular stat, and even that doesn't obey strict thresholds. It depends on how good of a raid group you're with in general. Nov25 needed only SWP gear and dungeon blues, everyone else will likely need heroic gear to get a nice buffer.
Kaib, what is your experience in terms of actual DPS numbers on your raids? For example: Hunters doing ~3.3k, Rogues doing around 3k, Destro Locks doing around 3k? I'm curious what the relative numbers are compared to your spec.
Well, I have only done one nax25 clear so far, not done it yet this reset. The first time lots of people were heavily undergeared as quite a few hit 80 the day of the raid or the day before but didn't farm gear. In general in that first raid it was three hunters, a ret pala, an enh shaman (with almost full epics from a single nax10 clear, lucky bastard) and me competing for top dps spots. I can't access WWS here at work, but I did over 3k dps in every stand & nuke encounter, razu, patchwerk and the like. That was usually enough for top 3-5. Loatheb I was slightly above 4k dps. One hunter did 4k on razu but was nearly 700 dps clear of the 2nd guy, I'd guess he got some crit luck there. Can't say our rogues are competitive right now. They got thaddius sword, anub or KT dagger, but it's just not enough.
The mentioned enh shaman is our best 'melee' dps, pushing out 8k chain lightnings and 5k shocks.
you should refresh your dots between DS, which makes soul siphon even more important. skipping immolate at this point may or may not be a dps increase, unsure.
btw, I just hit 80 less than 2 days ago and have done a handful of heroics so far, no raids. and so far I have not remembered to use DS on a single boss. anyone else have that problem?
I never played this lock through out tbc and now I have him at 80 and need advice on how to gem my gear. My guild just stepped into 10 man OS and 10 man Naxx. I'm 0/51/20 any tips on if I should gem with straight spell power or what? I'm at 206 hit so I'm pretty much good to go on hit rating. Any advice would be appreciated.
does anyone have the site that lists different gear, and sorts it based on rating you set on 1 spelldmg etc? That was really handy when I played last. I'm really unsure what to go for and what to pass on at this point.
Also has anyone done the math on Extract of Necromatic Power?
Was wondering what glyphs the other affliction locks are planning on using or using atm when they raid.Atm I am leaning to Glyph of Siphon Life, Glyph of Immolate , and Glyph of Curse of Agony. The only one I don't understand atm is the SL one.Would it be better to get the felhunter one or stay with Sl.
It doesn't work like that. The only thing remotely resembling a magic number is spell hit, and even then you don't actually need to cap it, it's just the most DPS-efficient use of item budget until you do.
Even then I don't think that's completely true. In all of the calculations I've done so far, point-for-point +hit comes out behind +spelldamage in terms of dps increase.
hello. under 25% of the boss hp, do you spam DS and not refreshing dots? or refresh dots as usual then let ds channel finish and rinse and repeat?
Actually, you refresh dots and use DS only as the "new filler". Point of affliction is having spells with a very high DPSC, so they are still worth it. DS does in fact more damage than sb, but it cant compete with the DPSC of your dots, and you will still need the debuff from haunt, so nothing changes. Even your shadowtrance-sbs are still worth it.
Has anyone found/used an addon that will visually display when my DS will tick, rather than me waiting to see it happen in SCT? Like some addition to the cast bar with markings for each tick etc. Timing the breaking of DS accurately can be quite difficult.
Has anyone found/used an addon that will visually display when my DS will tick, rather than me waiting to see it happen in SCT? Like some addition to the cast bar with markings for each tick etc. Timing the breaking of DS accurately can be quite difficult.
Why would you ever want to break a dps spell anyway? Or is there something about DS im unaware of?
11/22/08, 2:21 PM
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