Darkstarrz

Going back to the 53-1-17 spec do you think that dropping the two points out of demonic power and putting them into improved imp to make a spec that looks like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. Has anyone tested this spec, I have a feeling that 20% more imp damage would come out on top of machine gun imp.

 

Dotdot

Don't see much mention of 0/41/30 in here.. Managed 5464 dps as this spec, Fallenman actually beat me as 53/3/15 but wws doesn't attach the doomguard dps to him. Just throwing that out there as an alternative, with SE bugged having more than 1 affliction lock is questionable, this build seems pretty comparable to 0/30/41. Spec

 

Draezaal

Assuming Firebolt does 400 damage (because it's easier than dealing with the ~440 my imp does), I did some really basic math.

With no points in Improved Imp or Demonic Power, the imp's dps is ~160 (400 damage/2.5 second cast time).

With three ranks in Improved Imp, the imp's dps is ~208 (520 damage/2.5 second cast time).

With two ranks in Improved Imp and one in Demonic Power, the imp's dps is ~213 (480 damage/2.25 second cast time).

With one rank in Improved Imp and two in Demonic Power, the imp's dps is ~220 (440 damage/2 second cast time).

So the question is, does 60 more dps for the imp beat out having extra points in Eradication, Molten Core, or ISB?

 

Darkstarrz

Thats a good question, and thats what I am trying to get down to the bottom of. I have been testing it on dummies and I am finding one point in improved imp and the two in demonic power is pushing more dps for me. I also may simcraft both specs to see what I can come up with. Im stuck between the 3 in imp imp or 1 in imp and two in demonic power. I really appreciate that math that you have done, and am curious what your thoughts are to which you think will provide more dps as a spec. I like to hear others feedback too so I can work it all in together with my own ideas.

 

DiamondTear

I'm thinking using dummies to compare ISB and imp talents might not work so well, since ISB gains a lot from raid +crit buffs and debuffs.

 

Hrath

For Affliction, I like not having any talent points spent on demons. Fights like Sarth / Saph it can be very hard to keep an imp alive and dpsing. If you imp dies during those fights and you've invested 3 points into improving him, they are wasted points. Not only this but I'm a big fan of using infernals/doomguards for maximum dps output. Again, if you use one of these demons, the points that went to improving your imp go to waste. I think those talent points would be better served in getting 5/5 ISB, 1-2 /3 MC and Eradication from there (depending upon how many points you can take out of Cataclysm).

 

turturin

have you read the demo thread? People have been talking about (and running with) 0/41/30 since the SM/DT/Emberstorm buffs. In fact, only recently have people started to talk about 0/30/41 more than 0/41/30. Even this doesn't make much sense in light of the fact that no one has yet shown either in simcraft, leulier's, or real wws parses that 0/30/41 is anywhere close to better. And this is with Leulier's severley undermodeling FG dps (a known issue). I'm honestly confused as to where people are getting information that 0/30/41 is a better choice.

On 3D sarth maybe (if only because keeping a pet alive is difficult and shadowfury is ftw there), maybe a select few other fights as well. 　

 

Dotdot

That was a mistake on my part, I meant 0/31/40 but regardless, just meant MD/SF+1 build. I hadn't read the demonology thread recently, and yes I know people have been using it but I don't see it discussed much in here, the pve spec thread. Just throwing it out there as another vaible spec that is competitive for damage. If your raid doesn't have a stacked group usually though, particularly no enh shaman you're probably better off as another build.

*edit* Just elaborating a bit more on what i meant here, partially in response to the post below too... As felguard you are reliant even more on a stacked raid than any other build as you need personal caster buffs, and atleast reasonable melee buffs for the pet. That said, if those buffs are all present (ele/enh shams, ret pally, boomkin, dk etc) you stand to gain more than say an affliction lock would. I would assume most raids have most major buffs covered, the overlaps help alot with that but some things are still unique and really nice, as mentioned below. Affliction would be the least subject to this I suppose, flametongue alone from say a resto shaman would do in a pinch.

Overall a nice build, but I'm still torn after a lot of theorycrafting/respec's. I think I may just go affliction once they fix the SE and hopefully everlasting affliction bug(s).

*edit* forgot to add wws

 

turturin

That is a good point, and often overlooked. Both demo/destro hybrid builds are somewhat reliant on a full slate of buffs. I have been running mostly 0/41/30 though I have played 0/30/40+1 and affliction as well. Our lack of boomkin and only sometimes having an ele shaman does crimp my dps output with the former two much more so than it did as affliction.

 

Lominen

So all those people who stick points in their imps, whether it being as Aff or Destro, do you still use the infernals/doomguards on encounters?

 

rutiene

Yes. Infernal is about 1k dps. It's amazing.

 

• Zakalwe

Speaking of the infernal, can anyone link me to Patchwerk WWS reports that include one? The more the better - I just implemented infernal support in Simulationcraft, and I'd like to get a sanity check on the numbers.

 

rutiene

Wow Web Stats

Note that its a 10man, not a 25man.

 

Hexin

Here's a 25 man Patchwerk w/ infernal: Wow Web Stats

 

Debby

I still cannot make up my mind whether I should use 5/5 ISB or spend these points improving the imp (like 3/3 imp imp and 2/2 demonic power...

 

Emolokz

Question on spec for affliction. Is it better to put 2/3 into molten core with 3/5 ISB? ISB seems good but molten core also seems good, has anyone tested mc compared to ISB (3/5 ISB 2/3MC, 2/5 ISB 3/3 MC, 4/5 ISB 1/3 MC)?


Here's my armory btw so you can check my current spec and such. I'm new to the forums (in terms of posting) and I'm trying to maximize my dps.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Another question is....

A long time ago while levelling my warlock I chose doomguard instead of infernal. Is there any way to be able to summon both or no? And is the doomguard better DPS than the imp? I have only seem discussion of the infernal.

Thanks,

Emolokz
Dragonmaw-US

 

Delc

I assume you are referring to the low level quest for the +fire, and +shadow weapons. That has no effect on the pets you have available. The infernal spell is the reward from the level 50 quest, and the doomguard from the level 60 quest (although they may be trainable now?) The doomguard is not discussed because it is impractical to summon while an encounter is going on.

As for ISB vs MC there is lots of math earlier in this thread, and the others in the forum concerning it. If you are interested in which for your gear/spec check out leulier's dps spreadsheet.

 

Aedius

The doomguard can easily be summoned before an encounter. With its 15 minute duration it's more than viable to use in several fights.

 

Emolokz

I think the major problem is that it needs to be enslaved unlike the infernal which can be summoned quickly during the encounter for 1 minute.

 

endersshadow

The doom guard now comes automaticly ensalved, you just need 5 people to cast the spell.

 

Darkstarrz

Haven't summoned a doomgaurd is deep, I assume it still requires the ritual where four people click and it decides to kill one person? Lol, and you no longer have to enslave the infernal, you simply drop it, and it lasts for one minute then dies, it no longer will turn on you either after the minute is up. Does the doomguard do more dps then you would normally with an imp, with imp talents, and an infernal for the last minute of the encounter?

 

Fenz

No, someones health will go down but nobody wil die. Still needs the ritual but he will be enslaved for 15 minutes.

 

Emolokz

How do you monitor infernal dps since recount doesn't seem to keep track of him?

 

Hexin

WWS captures the infernal's dps and assigns it to the lock.

I keep reading it does not work for Doomguards though ... not sure why it works for one and not the other though. Haven't tried a Doomguard myself ... maybe next week.

 

Splot

The only issue with a Doomguard for people who have more than 41 points in demonology is that as an enslaved demon it does not activate the deep demonology talents (a good reason for a deep demo lock is for Demonic Pact buff). Doomguard should be considered by Affliction, 0/41/30 and Destruction locks. The Infernal is defninately a DPS increase for the short period it lives (see the Demo thread for some parses burried in the thread).

While a waste of points normally, improved enslave demon would be recommended for a lock that mainly used the Doomguard. A build may look like this.