The question is though, is a doomguard better dps than an infernal for boss encounters? It'd be interesting to find out if it'd be worth it to summon the hulk of a doomguard and enslave it before the boss encounter and use it an entire fight compared to having an imp or felhunter out then popping an infernal for 1 minute.
The only issue with a Doomguard for people who have more than 41 points in demonology is that as an enslaved demon it does not activate the deep demonology talents (a good reason for a deep demo lock is for Demonic Pact buff). Doomguard should be considered by Affliction, 0/41/30 and Destruction locks. The Infernal is defninately a DPS increase for the short period it lives (see the Demo thread for some parses burried in the thread).
While a waste of points normally, improved enslave demon would be recommended for a lock that mainly used the Doomguard. A build may look like this.
I dont agree with that spec, you would be better off dumping the 2 points in improved enslave demon as the doomguard comes insalved for you and dumping the 3 points in demonic brutality and instead investing 2 in health stone giving you another 1k health restored, and 2 in improved health funnel actually allowing your doom guard to tank the 4 horsemen without any effort, for those groups that use "lock tanks" for there 4 horseman encounters. and putting the last point in mana feed, thusly when you life tap your demon gets usually a 50% mana refil to its bar. For felguard tanking its quite nice as this allows its taunt ability to be used indenfitly stacking a lot of threat on the target, again useful for off tank situations or 4 horseman, and will feed mana back to your doomguard allowing it to keep pumping out dps.
The question is though, is a doomguard better dps than an infernal for boss encounters? It'd be interesting to find out if it'd be worth it to summon the hulk of a doomguard and enslave it before the boss encounter and use it an entire fight compared to having an imp or felhunter out then popping an infernal for 1 minute.
Infernal is always worth using for a DPS gain for an imp lock if you can afford the resummoning time or its in the last minute of the boss fight. For a Felguard lock, if your resummon is off cooldown then it is a definate DPS increase for the minute for you individually. If your raid is relying on you for Demonic Pact then the overall impact to the raid may be negative.
Originally Posted by endersshadow
I dont agree with that spec, you would be better off dumping the 2 points in improved enslave demon as the doomguard comes insalved for you and dumping the 3 points in demonic brutality and instead investing 2 in health stone giving you another 1k health restored, and 2 in improved health funnel actually allowing your doom guard to tank the 4 horsemen without any effort, for those groups that use "lock tanks" for there 4 horseman encounters. and putting the last point in mana feed, thusly when you life tap your demon gets usually a 50% mana refil to its bar. For felguard tanking its quite nice as this allows its taunt ability to be used indenfitly stacking a lot of threat on the target, again useful for off tank situations or 4 horseman, and will feed mana back to your doomguard allowing it to keep pumping out dps.
I don't agree with the build either, it was a suggestion and the key word in the sentence was "may". A warlock that needs to tank would probably be looking at something closer to a PvP Felguard build. I've not seen a lot of conversation around lock tanking. Are many doing this?
The question is though, is a doomguard better dps than an infernal for boss encounters? It'd be interesting to find out if it'd be worth it to summon the hulk of a doomguard and enslave it before the boss encounter and use it an entire fight compared to having an imp or felhunter out then popping an infernal for 1 minute.
In terms of pure dps the hierarchy is Infernal >= Felguard > Doomguard > Imp. However summoning a doomguard using CoD is unreliable and the cooldown of the doomguard ritual is so long (1 hr) that it can only be used on the odd occasion. The fact that they dont have aoe avoidance narrows down the fights that they can be used on even further.
The doomguard is most certainly a viable and definitely something non demo locks SHOULD be using whenever they can, he hits about as hard as the infernal, but lacks the aura, but has a plethora of other abilities that may or may not be useful in different occasions (cripple, war stomp, dispel, rain of fire) but I know that I use it whenever I can, and I think any other non-demo lock worth his salt should have those cooldowns burned as often as they can, the fact that I've never seen another lock burn those cooldowns worries me, but then again, I don't see many locks these days.
Also, I don't know if ritual of doom and infernal are trainable now. But if you're a raiding lock and take PvE seriously enough, there's no reason not to do those quests and not to use those when you can. Doomguard can even last multiple fights in certain circumstances, He doesn't have the resistances or range of the FH and Imp, but he's got a boatload of health like the infernal.
Well I am asking from PoV of an affliction lock. Can anyone help me understand my WWS a bit better?
Here's a test dummy run without DS with the infernal. Someone help me analyze this. Wow Web Stats
The only thing a test dummy run can do for you is DoT uptime. Which frankly, you don't need WWS for. Your DoT uptime is decent. For future reference, all you have to do to calculate DoT reference is follow the formula:
Number of DoT Ticks * Time interval per tick (in s) / Time of fight (in s)
An example here is your corruption uptime:
24 * 3 / 77 = 93.5% (This is actually a bit low. You want over 95%, typically around 98%, for Corruption since it should always be refreshed with Haunt.)
Corruption (as you can see) has a 3s time interval, as do all DoTs. The one exception is CoA which has 2s intervals between its DoTs. You should be aiming for 90%+ up-time on all of your DoTs, although 85%+ is decent.
Also, I don't know if ritual of doom and infernal are trainable now. But if you're a raiding lock and take PvE seriously enough, there's no reason not to do those quests and not to use those when you can. Doomguard can even last multiple fights in certain circumstances, He doesn't have the resistances or range of the FH and Imp, but he's got a boatload of health like the infernal.
Ritual of Doom and Infernal are quest based still. I just did Infernal last night, and am working on Ritual of Doom as I type. I guess I wasn't fully aware of the changes to both of these spells. To get this straight, neither of them need to be enslaved anymore, they both are summoned under full control? Infernal for one minute, and Doomguard for fifteen, and they both just disappear after the timer? Infernal has a twenty minute cooldown, while the Doomguard has an hour?
I guess as an affliction lock, it would make sense to summon a Doomguard before every boss if possible, barring that, summon an Infernal for the last sixty seconds of a boss fight. I would imagine since the Doomguard can basically last the entire fight, it would be first pick always.
I was wondering the same thing Visidius. Any parses to show whether using imp then infernal for last minute comes on top dpswise than using a doomguard for the whole encounter? Any information on this would be great, same with parses.
Ritual of Doom and Infernal are quest based still. I just did Infernal last night, and am working on Ritual of Doom as I type. I guess I wasn't fully aware of the changes to both of these spells. To get this straight, neither of them need to be enslaved anymore, they both are summoned under full control? Infernal for one minute, and Doomguard for fifteen, and they both just disappear after the timer? Infernal has a twenty minute cooldown, while the Doomguard has an hour?
I guess as an affliction lock, it would make sense to summon a Doomguard before every boss if possible, barring that, summon an Infernal for the last sixty seconds of a boss fight. I would imagine since the Doomguard can basically last the entire fight, it would be first pick always.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
Pretty much exactly how I use them. Just remember to keep stocked on those reagents!
And Darkstarrz, I kinda doubt that an imp + infernal will beat a doomguard for the whole encounter, but I guess it depends on the length of the encounter, from some of my parses it seems the infernal has a slightly higher hit on average, at like 1200+ while the doomguard's tends to be around 1100+ average, but that could just be RNG, on top of that, the infernal has the aura which ups his DPS a bit as well.
But I think that a doomguard across a whole encounter will do more, here's another Patchwerk parse from 25 man naxx, I think the same week, where I used Felhunter + Infernal for just under a minute I think. WOW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King! The pet's combined DPS (including shadow bite, infernal stun, and his aura on top of both pet's melee attacks) made up about 8.8% of my damage. Given, that's not an imp (I prefer my Felhunter), and 25 man is different than 10 man, but my damage on both fights were similar (1.2 mil in 10 man and 1 mil in 25 man), I think they're pretty comparable parses, and the doomguard I had on the parse I linked in my last post made up 12.5%, a fair bit more than 8.8%. But either way, both cooldowns should be used whenever you can, in my opinion.
Well the thing is I am specced to increase my imps dps, and have points in a few talents to enhance that, so thats why I wanted to know if using the doomguard over the imp and infernal would be more beneficial dpswise. If I was to start using my doomguard more often I would spec out of those talents, but I have found my spec (in my opinion) to be the top affliciton spec when it comes to damage and dps.
Well the thing is I am specced to increase my imps dps, and have points in a few talents to enhance that, so thats why I wanted to know if using the doomguard over the imp and infernal would be more beneficial dpswise. If I was to start using my doomguard more often I would spec out of those talents, but I have found my spec (in my opinion) to be the top affliciton spec when it comes to damage and dps.
Aaah, fair enough. Well, try some testing next week, I suppose. About how much damage does your imp make up of your damage?
EDIT: alternatively, you could just see how much DPS your imp does, the doomguard seems to sustain about 560 or so DPS, at least on that 10 man parse I had on PW. In fact, with bloodlust and stuff, and I don't recall if it was buffed or not, but that was a long PW fight, but with a shorter fight he's gonna have higher DPS due to things like lust...pets are affected by lust, right?
Turbo, maybe its just my guild but how do you keep your infernal/doomguard alive on patchwork.. I have dropped him the past two weeks and he definatly ate a hateful each time.. Im just thinking bad slow healers on the tanks. The only other thing I could do is target the infernal behind the water and hope he takes a tick as he runs through to patchwork.
I used an Infernal tonight on Patchwork and he didn't seem to have any issues being killed. It gave me a nice DPS boost. I normally use an un-improved imp. I'm not geared that well and I finally broke 3k and landed in #1, so that's a plus. Still working on that Doomguard quest.
I'd like to see the WOW Meter for a doomguard on patchwerk from more people if possible. If he's 560 dps without heroism then he is much stronger than the imp or felhunter.
For dots, when does the last tick occur? As in, what time period should the dot be refreshed (wiithin 1-0 seconds left on debuff without it falling completely off)?
[quote=Emolokz;1037282]I'd like to see the WOW Meter for a doomguard on patchwerk from more people if possible. If he's 560 dps without heroism then he is much stronger than the imp or felhunter.
Ya, but is he stronger than a talented imp and a infernal for the final minute? This is what I'm really trying to get to the bottom line of.
But since a doomguard is stronger than an imp, and an infernal is stronger than a doomguard, the obvious choice for max dps is to start out with a doomguard and pop the infernal for the final minute.
Infernal is affected by heroism, so doomguard should be too.
I've actually just added infernal support to Simulationcraft, and I'm gonna try to get the doomguard in as well before the next release. That should make it easier for people to analyze what the best usage would be.
Editing to add rotation: You open with Haunt then use Unstable Affliction, CoA, Corruption, Siphon Life, then use your Immolate. If you have time before Haunt expires toss a Shadowbolt.
Editing to add rotation: You open with Haunt then use Unstable Affliction, CoA, Corruption, Siphon Life, then use your Immolate. If you have time before Haunt expires toss a Shadowbolt.
That spec makes no sense. Not even a point in eradication? Why dark pact, life tap is very much superior to it. Also one point in molten core brings a huge boost to immolate.
Also that rotation isn't the best one. Starting out with a shadow bolt then haunt allows for all of your DoTs to benefit from shadow embrace. Also its better to keep UA and Immo together because they have the same duration and it just simplifies things.
Also, is the doomguard automatically under summoner's control now or does it still need to be enslaved?
Yes, the doomguard gets summoned under your command with a 15 min. duration. It requires 5 ppl to summon it however, whereas one will take quite a bit of damage, but not die like it used to be.
He has some sweet debuffs, for instance the cripple is a huge upgrade from Thunderclap, but the missrate is quite high unfortunately. I popped one tonight at Patchwerk just for the fun of it and it came out with an average 760dps over the 3 minute fight. Not halfbad considering the Infernal is around 1k and only lasts one minute. The fact that you can pop it before the fight also means it can get buffed with stuff like might, kings and fort. It had almost 29k hp but never took a hateful. Just annoying that its dps doesnt show on WWS :P
01/02/09, 11:26 PM
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