PVE Spec Discussion - Page 23

Smurrf · 01/04/09, 6:25 PM

Originally Posted by Emolokz

For dots, when does the last tick occur? As in, what time period should the dot be refreshed (wiithin 1-0 seconds left on debuff without it falling completely off)?

Originally Posted by Namnalia

The goal is to refresh a DoT the very moment the last tick expires. For DoT's with cast times, this is done by starting to re-cast the DoT when the amount of time it has left is just slightly less than the DoTs cast time. For example. If your Unstable Affliction has a 1.5 second cast time, you start to cast a new UA when the current one has 1.4 seconds left on the timer. Now, being realistic, obviously it's rare that this will happen. The reason for that is you do NOT want to stand around doing nothing just because you're waiting for that timer to hit 1.4 seconds. It is better to do something, whether that's casting a shadowbolt or using dark pact / life tap. Even if it means you will be a bit "late" refreshing the DoT.

Generally, you do not want to "clip" a DoT. This means refreshing the DoT before the previous one had its last tick of damage go off. And since Corruption is automatically refreshed by Haunt via Everlasting Affliction, you never have to worry about corruption.

Next, there is a reason we cast UA and Immolate together. They both have a 15 second duration, therefore every successive refreshing of these 2 DoTs will always be UA and then Immolate immediately following. You can essentially think of them as just one dot with a 3 second cast time.

And finally, since haunt has a 12 second duration, and you start with Haunt, then UA, and immolate, eventually haunt will work its way around and end up right after you refresh UA and Immolate. When this happens, on the very next "refresh", refresh Haunt early, allowing you to reset the rotation back to Haunt, then UA, then Immolate. So for example, with about 2.9 seconds left on UA's duration, cast Haunt. This brings you to 1.4 seconds left on UA's duration, so you immediately follow Haunt with UA, and then of course immediately again with Immolate.

Lastly, never interrupt a spell cast mid-cast just so you can cast something else. You want to try and avoid that whenever possible.

Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread - 1st post.

Emolokz · 01/04/09, 6:38 PM

That still doesn't answer my question pertinent to instant cast dots like CoA or SL. Is there a last tick of SL or CoA at 1 second or is the last tick at 0 seconds?

krilz · 01/04/09, 6:46 PM

Simple. If you cast for instance SL (which lasts 30 sec) then after 30 seconds the last tick will occur, at the same time disappears.

• Heeno · 01/04/09, 6:56 PM

In theory, you want to cast CoA and SL exactly the moment after the last tick occurs, but in reality you will likely be in the middle of another cast when that moment occurs. Also you never want to sit there casting nothing, waiting for a dot to expire, it is always better to be casting something than trying to time things perfectly.

cryp71c · 01/05/09, 12:08 PM

That still doesn't answer my question pertinent to instant cast dots like CoA or SL. Is there a last tick of SL or CoA at 1 second or is the last tick at 0 seconds?

Last tick is always at 0 seconds (or an instant before the 0-second mark)

Emolokz · 01/05/09, 1:36 PM

Great

thanks

Back to the infernal vs doomguard vs felhunter vs imp discussion I say!

I did the doomguard quest last night, deals a large load of damage to someone but does not come anywhere near killing. A simple heal after summoning will suffice. He can take a beating. My summoned infernal has roughly 23.8k health, the doomguard has 21.8k health unbuffed. Can anyone look into the defense and armor capability of the doomguard to see if he can assist OT like a hunter's pet?

Viper007Bond · 01/05/09, 5:46 PM

For the life of me, I can't seem to find a straight answer on whether Affliction or Destruction is the way to go for max DPS. Some say Affliction is and that they have reports from lots of WWS that say so, while so many well geared people I come across (not just on my realm) are all running Destro.

I'm currently rolling 0/20/51 (Unholy Power / deep destro) and liking it (tons of burst and simple rotation due to the lack of conflag), but I'm only managing around 3500 DPS on Patchwerk 25 while an equally geared mage is managing 5000 DPS (yes, locks aren't mages, but you'd still think I could at least sorta keep up). I dunno if that's just my gear though or if it's due to my spec.

My other problem is I have a fair amount of crit. I've done what I can recently to move it to haste so I can go Affliction is need be, but I still have over 16% when unspec'ed (and just over 2100 damage).

Would anyone by kind enough to just cut through all of the excess of information and give me an answer one way or the other? I'm not asking for my hand to be held per se, just some guidance.

Thanks guys. <3

Hrath · 01/05/09, 6:09 PM

I was curious if any calculations have been done about Meta/Ruin for raiding. I realize Affliction is currently on top but my question is, if a guild does not run with an elemental shaman for raids, would it generally be worth having an Affliction warlock switch to Meta/Ruin for the DP buff to the raid. I realize this largely depends upon raid makeup (how many casters you have and your spellpower). With the current state of elemental shamans and their dps (or lack of), I think having a warlock switch to Meta would be an overall raid dps increase. Does anyone have any input on this or maybe have tested it and ran the numbers?

Lominen · 01/05/09, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

Would anyone by kind enough to just cut through all of the excess of information and give me an answer one way or the other? I'm not asking for my hand to be held per se, just some guidance.

Thanks guys. <3

Well if you like destro stick with it. This is still supposed to about fun, but speccing Aff with that gear should easily net you around 1k extra dps, sorry to say

Can't really say anything about your current specc as armory shows you as untalented atm :P

Viper007Bond · 01/05/09, 9:15 PM

Originally Posted by Lominen

Well if you like destro stick with it.

I do enjoy the simplicity of it. Makes life easier and allows me to pay more attention to other things like scary ground portals and such. :P

Originally Posted by Lominen

This is still supposed to about fun, but speccing Aff with that gear should easily net you around 1k extra dps, sorry to say

That's what I was afraid of. I re-speced to this spec today and will give it a try tonight.

Originally Posted by Lominen

Can't really say anything about your current specc as armory shows you as untalented atm :P

I linked my destro spec in my OP, but here it is again as it was kinda hiding: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Turbo Moses · 01/05/09, 9:37 PM

Originally Posted by Melbuframa

Curious as to where you are getting these numbers. I suggest you look at this post. A few of your conclusions and spec are wrong.
http://elitistjerks.com/1030214-post476.html

In regards to Cygg's post, I'm gonna make the assumption that that's with max raid buffs? I'm more or less the only consistent lock in my guild, and we also lack any Disc priests, so i'm gonna stick with my felpup for the spirit buff, which I'm sure is more than a talented imp can provide for both me individually, as well as the raid. Also I love the silences and dispels.

Kooky · 01/05/09, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Hrath

I was curious if any calculations have been done about Meta/Ruin for raiding. I realize Affliction is currently on top but my question is, if a guild does not run with an elemental shaman for raids, would it generally be worth having an Affliction warlock switch to Meta/Ruin for the DP buff to the raid. I realize this largely depends upon raid makeup (how many casters you have and your spellpower). With the current state of elemental shamans and their dps (or lack of), I think having a warlock switch to Meta would be an overall raid dps increase. Does anyone have any input on this or maybe have tested it and ran the numbers?

Well, it's rather viable to spec meta/ruin as a support spec, if u don't have a fulltime ele shammy atm, although ur dps will drop quite alot, it should still be slightly better than an ele shammy. Only managed a 4.3K dps on PW25. While as affliction with lesser gear than now, I can do like 4.9K. With my dragonsoul trinket stacking x10 and full buffs with flask and food, I'm more than 3.2K spellpower ( as seen from char sheet ) and one lifetap from 4pc T7 brings it up to 3.3K+.

This is our wowmeter parse
WOW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!

From that parse, u can see the OPness of the doomguard as the doomguard's normal melee dmg is as good as my felguard ( excluding it's cleave dmg ) in spite of all of the demo buffs to my felguard ( including the felguard AP glyph ).

Thus for those who spec 0/31/40, or even 0/41/30, if might be better to sac ur imp and use a doomguard to dps =)

Naforce · 01/05/09, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Kooky

Thus for those who spec 0/31/40, or even 0/41/30, if might be better to sac ur imp and use a doomguard to dps =)

Would it really be worth loosing what ever bonus you get from just having the pet out? And also losing the pets dps? I have a hard time beliveing that. By the way, nice DPS. Do you use standard rotation and specc as seen in the afflithread here on EJ?

Masticor · 01/05/09, 10:43 PM

I wonder about the Doomguards cripple isn't it one (if not the) strongest debuff to melee dmg?

We sometimes have a little problem with the meleedmg Patchwork dishes out, especially on the OT. Wouldn't the Doomguards Cripple be a great way to help reduce that problem?

I did summon the Infernal today when he went under 30% and it was great.

Lominen · 01/06/09, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

That's what I was afraid of. I re-speced to this spec today and will give it a try tonight.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I think perhaps you may be better off with something like this. Unless you don't carry an Unholy DK (most do) or a Boomkin for the Malediction debuff. Dark Pact is so much worse than Lifetap, esp when you have the Imp talent and will only really help you on perhaps Loatheb or Sapphiron if the healing is tight. The MC proc gives a decent boost to your Immolate and should be up almost all the time with just a single point.

Originally Posted by Masticor

I wonder about the Doomguards cripple isn't it one (if not the) strongest debuff to melee dmg?

We sometimes have a little problem with the meleedmg Patchwork dishes out, especially on the OT. Wouldn't the Doomguards Cripple be a great way to help reduce that problem?

I did summon the Infernal today when he went under 30% and it was great.

Yes it is by far. Cripple overwrites Thunderclap by quite a bit since its 45% (yes Fourtyfive) increased attack speed and thus a very powerful debuff (I guess this is how they want warlocks to stack in raids :P) however currently the Doomguard dont benefit from your hit as most other pets do, so the missrate of it is pretty bad. So you can't really rely on it since it is on a 30s cooldown and it kinda sucks to not have any of these debuffs up if the boss hits like a truck :P

cryp71c · 01/06/09, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by Turbo Moses

In regards to Cygg's post, I'm gonna make the assumption that that's with max raid buffs? I'm more or less the only consistent lock in my guild, and we also lack any Disc priests, so i'm gonna stick with my felpup for the spirit buff, which I'm sure is more than a talented imp can provide for both me individually, as well as the raid. Also I love the silences and dispels.

In my aff spec, I noticed around ~200 DPS increase w/ my imp out in the 10-Vault I ran last night, which is significant considering my general lack of gear. And I don't even have improved imp.

If you have a mage for intellect, the extra 40 spirit from felpuppy is nothing compared to the straight DPS increase your imp will provide.

• Heeno · 01/06/09, 7:44 PM

The felhunter's spirit buff is a massive dps increase for you compared to the imp. The 200 DPS increase could be due to differences in group comps, performance, time in combat, etc. From my testing a talented imp only does about 60 more dps than a felhunter.

The only reason really to use an imp instead of a felhunter is if you have a disc priest, another warlock with a felhunter out, or for some reason need blood pact. The spirit buff is just too good for you and your raid to not take advantage of.

Skelos · 01/06/09, 8:06 PM

Why not just use the spirit buff from a scroll which makes up for the buff the puppy gives.

Affe · 01/06/09, 9:50 PM

Originally Posted by Heeno

The felhunter's spirit buff is a massive dps increase for you compared to the imp. The 200 DPS increase could be due to differences in group comps, performance, time in combat, etc. From my testing a talented imp only does about 60 more dps than a felhunter and the spirit buff alone, even with the felhunter on passive, gives you more dps than a talented imp.

Fel Intelligence is 48 int & 64 spirit (it doesn't stack with AI afaik), so the only concern is 64 spirit ~ 19 SP ~ 19 dps (very rough estimate).

According to you the talented imp does less than 19 dps. Or am I misreading your post?

Sure the spirit buff is nice for the raid as a whole, but not much of a boost dpswise for the warlock alone.

Phearbot · 01/06/09, 9:56 PM

Doesn't the spirit buff get covered by the priest in your raids? They don't stack.

ThyFlame · 01/06/09, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Phearbot

Doesn't the spirit buff get covered by the priest in your raids? They don't stack.

Correct.

An imp should not be 200 dps more than a felhunter, though. I'll check my numbers after the raid tonight, but it should be a much smaller dps increase.

◊ Melbuframa · 01/07/09, 1:09 AM

Originally Posted by Phearbot

Doesn't the spirit buff get covered by the priest in your raids? They don't stack.

I know this varies from guild to guild, but we have not had a priest with DS in a raid in well over 6 months.

I don’t know if the 1st post in here is still updated but this is a WWS from 25 Patch of myself running 0/33/38. Slight variation on the 0/30/41 Spec. Aff can and does beat it pretty easily I’ve personally done 1000 more DPS as aff then I have as this spec however it’s a very fun/easy spec to play. It’s about as close to the old 1 button spam as you will get.

Great spec for heroics or for anyone who has a hard time getting aff to work

Wow Web Stats

Ran with my normal Aff glyphs because I didn’t feel like changing them out. 5k easily doable would most likely run Imp, CoA and immo for this spec.

Pretty bad Patch actually, melee doing something wrong as usual.

Viper007Bond · 01/07/09, 3:40 AM

Originally Posted by Lominen

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I think perhaps you may be better off with something like this. Unless you don't carry an Unholy DK (most do) or a Boomkin for the Malediction debuff. Dark Pact is so much worse than Lifetap, esp when you have the Imp talent and will only really help you on perhaps Loatheb or Sapphiron if the healing is tight. The MC proc gives a decent boost to your Immolate and should be up almost all the time with just a single point.

That's an identical spec to what I posted. Bad copy/paste? Although I've found myself not using Dark Pact at all, so yeah, I can lose the talent.

But anyway, I'm also not that impressed so far with the DPS I'm putting out as Affliction. It's about equal to my old Destro spec, but 10 times more painful to play as I just stare at DoTimer.

WWS report from tonight: Wow Web Stats

Then again that is with no CoA (didn't realize CoE didn't stack with Boomkins) and a Felhunter (no spirit buff from a priest). Still, those two things wouldn't give me much more DPS I'd imagine.

Emolokz · 01/07/09, 4:48 AM

Has anyone tried the doomguard buffed on patch yet with a WWS module that'll track his damage?

Or a doomguard/infernal combo for max damage.

Also, I switched to this spec since I am still raid capped with a shadowpriest or druid (faerie fire), let me know what you all think. Should I have the one point into molten core or two into destructive reach?
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Anthraxx · 01/07/09, 8:19 AM

Destructive reach is of minimal use due to not having points in the affliction talent which makes you stand closer anyway. Threat with 2/2 imp. DS shouldn't already be an issue. MC will definitely be more valuable.