@diamondtear Probably your unit frames simpy caches dropped or run out debuffs for a few seconds if you configure it to show more than 40. A lot of addons can do this. And teh fact that you saw more than 40 says that you have the same problem like us all.
Why would it cache a maximum of 50 debuffs when there is the option to show more slots? I also see them dropping off when they should, not later.
I don't have problems with my debuffs falling off with one unholy dk in the raid.
Originally Posted by Telekinesis
About debuff falling off, the reason Death´s embrace fall off might be because the rogues in your raid might be using wound poison that is a greater debuff on the healing given to the target causing your shadow embrace debuff to drop of boss.
Wound poison does not push Shadow Embrace off the target. It took 2 minutes to test.
The debuff limit is definitely still 40. I'm using DebuffCounter, which simply counts all debuffs on the target, as opposed to being hard-coded to only check the first 40. In Naxx 25 last night, I was able to observe the counter going up to 44-45 for a second or two, before immediately dropping back to 40.
We were rolling with 1 affliction lock (myself), 1 unholy DK, a shadow priest, and no boomkin. I've since respecced 0/41/30 to try and cut back on my contribution to the problem, but it is indeed quite frustrating to be limited in this way. After all, Ghostcrawler's big crusade has been to make it easier to simply take "good players" to raids, instead of micromanaging raid comp.
Malediction also gives you 3% more Spell Power, wich i believe to be better them 3/3 eradication on the overall.
Contrary to popular belief, Malediction gives you 3% more spell damage, not 3% more to your spellpower statistic. This is slightly better than a spellpower buff as it improves your base damage as well. As a comparison to Eradication, I don't think Malediction is better for personal DPS, but the first point of Malediction is probably better than the last point of Eradication.
I did the same on the Damage Dealing forums, which seems to be the one GC responds on (he says the class boards are more for player interaction and less for developer discussion). Feel free to bump at will.
The debuff limit is definitely still 40. I'm using DebuffCounter, which simply counts all debuffs on the target, as opposed to being hard-coded to only check the first 40. In Naxx 25 last night, I was able to observe the counter going up to 44-45 for a second or two, before immediately dropping back to 40.
We were rolling with 1 affliction lock (myself), 1 unholy DK, a shadow priest, and no boomkin. I've since respecced 0/41/30 to try and cut back on my contribution to the problem, but it is indeed quite frustrating to be limited in this way. After all, Ghostcrawler's big crusade has been to make it easier to simply take "good players" to raids, instead of micromanaging raid comp.
We have several WWS reports where we have had no debuff limit issues, and we have not had debuffs knocked off.
There are quite a few posts in the now locked warlock threads that indicate the debuff limit appears to have been raised or removed. Even your own debuff counter you said gets to 44-45 debuffs. Previously with the 40 debuff limit, the counter would have NEVER gone over 40, as the debuffs were removed the moment another could take its place and bump it off. You have only confirmed that the debuff limit was at least raised.
We have had as many as 5 warlocks (2 affliction, 3 destro), 2 DK's, boomkin, 2 mages, 2 rogues, spriest, etc and so on in the raid, and I have yet to see any warlock debuffs getting knocked off.
We have several WWS reports where we have had no debuff limit issues, and we have not had debuffs knocked off.
There are quite a few posts in the now locked warlock threads that indicate the debuff limit appears to have been raised or removed. Even your own debuff counter you said gets to 44-45 debuffs. Previously with the 40 debuff limit, the counter would have NEVER gone over 40, as the debuffs were removed the moment another could take its place and bump it off. You have only confirmed that the debuff limit was at least raised.
We have had as many as 5 warlocks (2 affliction, 3 destro), 2 DK's, boomkin, 2 mages, 2 rogues, spriest, etc and so on in the raid, and I have yet to see any warlock debuffs getting knocked off.
I can second that. Our first ever 25-man raid was with 3 affliction locks, 1 unholy deathknight, 1 moonkin, 1 spriest, 2 mages and some more people. I did not notice ANY debuffs getting pushed off.
We have many WWS reports where we have had no debuff limit issues, and we have not had debuffs knocked off.
There are quite a few posts that indicate the debuff limit appears to have been raised or removed. Even your own debuff counter you said gets to 44-45 debuffs. Previously with the 40 debuff limit, the counter would have NEVER gone over 40, as the debuffs were removed the moment another could take its place and bump it off. You have only confirmed that the debuff limit was at least raised.
We have had as many as 5 warlocks (2 affliction, 3 destro), 2 DK's, boomkin, 2 mages, 2 rogues, spriest, etc and so on in the raid, and I have yet to see any warlock debuffs getting knocked off.
You need to read my post again - I said it would get up to 44-45 and then it would fall back to 40 in a second or so. I'm not sure how you think this confirms the debuff limit has been raised - to me it confirms that the server is registering a number of debuffs above the maximum, and is then removing what it determines to be the least valuable debuffs to get it back to 40.
I'm not sure how you go about confirming you have no debuff limit issues just by looking at the WWS report, but I would nevertheless love to see one of these many reports you have.
I was playing around with a talent calculator, and Ive come up with an affliction spec that I think might be slightly better than the standard 56/0/15. Basically, It moves one point from Affliction to Molten Core.
Note: I take both hit talents because currently I am starving for hit from gear, our boomkin doesn't have Imp. Faerie Fire, and we have no spriest. With a little more hit points could be shifted from Cataclysm to Imp Shadow Bolt for a DPS Boost. I like the aff side though because it take all the key DPS talents from the Affliction tree, but leaves 16 points so I can pick up Molten Core for a boost to my immolate.
I deleted my post until I can get some more information out of a raid. I tweaked my aguf to show up to 60 debuffs, but probably won't get a raid environment to test it in until Sunday. Thaddius should be a good display of whether or not the limit as fixed at 40, is clearing debuffs every few seconds, or is flat out ceiling-free.
You need to read my post again - I said it would get up to 44-45 and then it would fall back to 40 in a second or so. I'm not sure how you think this confirms the debuff limit has been raised - to me it confirms that the server is registering a number of debuffs above the maximum, and is then removing what it determines to be the least valuable debuffs to get it back to 40.
I'm not sure how you go about confirming you have no debuff limit issues just by looking at the WWS report, but I would nevertheless love to see one of these many reports you have.
My guess is the problem is with your addon being incorrect or inaccurate then.
And how do you confirm there is no issue with debuff limits from a WWS report? Look at the combat log parses and look for dots ending early. Another thing you can do is look at the length of the fight, vs the number of DoT ticks. I trust hard combat log numbers over an addon.
I was playing around with a talent calculator, and Ive come up with an affliction spec that I think might be slightly better than the standard 56/0/15. Basically, It moves one point from Affliction to Molten Core.
Note: I take both hit talents because currently I am starving for hit from gear, our boomkin doesn't have Imp. Faerie Fire, and we have no spriest. With a little more hit points could be shifted from Cataclysm to Imp Shadow Bolt for a DPS Boost. I like the aff side though because it take all the key DPS talents from the Affliction tree, but leaves 16 points so I can pick up Molten Core for a boost to my immolate.
Thoughts?
First off, if your boomkin isn't picking up imp FF, someone needs to have a chat with your boomkin. Misinformed laser chickens aside, there's a few points that I think could be moved around. I think it's been pretty well-proven that anything more than 1 point in eradication is pretty unnecessary, and 3 points is just a waste. You'd be much better-off throwing a point in improved felhunter to let it dps until the sun comes up. If I were going for a Molten Core build, not counting any hit talents, I'd look somewhere near 54/0/17. 2/3 MC with all your dots ticking should provide near constant uptime. Don't quote me on that though.
My guess is the problem is with your addon being incorrect or inaccurate then.
And how do you confirm there is no issue with debuff limits from a WWS report? Look at the combat log parses and look for dots ending early. Another thing you can do is look at the length of the fight, vs the number of DoT ticks. I trust hard combat log numbers over an addon.
That's certainly possible. I suppose I'm mainly surprised that there hasn't been any mention of a debuff-limit increase in any patch notes, or even in a blue post. It was a pretty well-publicized event last time the limit was raised. Hopefully a blue will respond to one of the threads on the WoW forums, and clear it up definitively.
First off, if your boomkin isn't picking up imp FF, someone needs to have a chat with your boomkin. Misinformed laser chickens aside, there's a few points that I think could be moved around.
Really ? Well, I had asked a guild mate about speccing into that as well & he stated it was a dps loss ... I didn't want to question his judgment on it. How do other Boomkins spec in other guilds ? I'd love to itemize the 3% hit somewhere else.
It's the same argument that stubborn warlocks had with malediction during TBC. Yes, speccing imp FF might be a personal dps loss, but the overall net gain is that the entire raid can gear 3% less +hit and in turn increase total raid dps. It's a big-picture thing. I'm not questioning that his dps might go down, but it's important for everyone to take the raid-dps-boosting talents where they can get them.
Well, don't get me wrong. That's how I saw it, but since I'm no expert on druids I didn't know if he meant it was so "out of whack" for him to spec into it.
I, myself have put forth not only a large sum of effort towards respecs but have also gone through extremes to test each one of them out and have come up with a few conclusions for the spec that I have been running for the past couple raids: 0-40-31. I first off want to respond to maalakai. I know nukez one of your other main raiding locks was running a 0-41-30 spec, and have been asking myself why? The spec is a good idea and i run a very similar one myself, but I find myself wondering in fact, why run that last point into felguard? The Master Demonology talent to me seems to benefit way better with an imp where you gain the 5% fire crit and fire damage, opposed to the felguard where you gain really only the 5% damage.
I find a couple issues with the felguard in which I find myself chosing the imp in place of him. First off, I would not consider the felguard to do superior dps to the imp. With the demo talents you can get and the imp glyph your gaining a very nice percentage to your imps damage and I have found the outcome of the two's overall damage to not be that far apart depending on the fight. Also, when I ran with the felguard I found him dying alot especially due to the fact that he angles himself in close proximity to the boss's/mobs melee range and find him getting either cleaved, or taking excessive damage, and when investing the talents you do into the demo tree you really cannot afford to lose your pet.
I have really been enjoying the hybrid specs that I have played around with so far. I will continue to test any spec I find to have potential to come up with the the one that will provide the best dps for myself.
I, myself have put forth not only a large sum of effort towards respecs but have also gone through extremes to test each one of them out and have come up with a few conclusions for the spec that I have been running for the past couple raids: 0-40-31. I first off want to respond to maalakai. I know nukez one of your other main raiding locks was running a 0-41-30 spec, and have been asking myself why? The spec is a good idea and i run a very similar one myself, but I find myself wondering in fact, why run that last point into felguard? The Master Demonology talent to me seems to benefit way better with an imp where you gain the 5% fire crit and fire damage, opposed to the felguard where you gain really only the 5% damage.
I find a couple issues with the felguard in which I find myself chosing the imp in place of him. First off, I would not consider the felguard to do superior dps to the imp. With the demo talents you can get and the imp glyph your gaining a very nice percentage to your imps damage and I have found the outcome of the two's overall damage to not be that far apart depending on the fight. Also, when I ran with the felguard I found him dying alot especially due to the fact that he angles himself in close proximity to the boss's/mobs melee range and find him getting either cleaved, or taking excessive damage, and when investing the talents you do into the demo tree you really cannot afford to lose your pet.
I have really been enjoying the hybrid specs that I have played around with so far. I will continue to test any spec I find to have potential to come up with the the one that will provide the best dps for myself.
I've been messing with different specs and have tried all these since we have been raiding: 0/41/30 (felguard/emberstorm), 0/31/40 (md-imp/snf), 2/13/56 (backdraft/cb build), 56/0/15 (haunt/ruin), 31/0/40 (sm/snf) and they all pretty much perform close to each other when testing unbuffed against dummies aside from the sm/snf build which lagged behind for me. Affliction of course is usually tops with the hybrid specs and destro close behind. Destro takes a bit of getting used to the rotation to make it shine. I have not tested the 0/40/31 build but it's worth a shot at some point. My concern of course is having a build that currently won't take up too many debuff slots, and does competitive dps on most fights. I'm also wanting a build that will scale quite well in a raid scenario and have yet to find a build that I'm 100% happy with.
Do you have any parses of your performance as this hybrid build you could share?
Here is our first night of malygos attempts: Wow Web Stats
I happend to die on the last attempt thats why I am not on the wws for the "malygos death" parse.
And here is our 2nd 25 man heroic naxx: Wow Web Stats
Now remember these raids i was specced 0-31-40 not 0-40-31 as I am speccd now and wish I had been for these parses, and was in full level 70 sunwell gear. I was also using old consumables: pure death flask, basilisks, old mana pots, and flame caps, so with the new changes in my gear, spec and consumables my performance could have been greatly improved. Now the difference I have seen so far between the two hybrid demo/destro specs (0-40-31 and 0-31-40) Is that with one you crit a whole lot more and with the other your incinerates hit for a whole lot more due to the shadow and flame talent. So either way your going to be trading off a few good talents for another in both specs, and it really boils down to straight up preference. I will post this tuesdays parse as 0-40-31 to see how using the imp over the felguards dps differs, and then we can make a distinction between the better of the two specs perhaps.
Can you try linking the build you used for affliction? Want to see the differences from my own. And do you stack only spellpower and haste as affliction?
I, myself have put forth not only a large sum of effort towards respecs but have also gone through extremes to test each one of them out and have come up with a few conclusions for the spec that I have been running for the past couple raids: 0-40-31. I first off want to respond to maalakai. I know nukez one of your other main raiding locks was running a 0-41-30 spec, and have been asking myself why? The spec is a good idea and i run a very similar one myself, but I find myself wondering in fact, why run that last point into felguard? The Master Demonology talent to me seems to benefit way better with an imp where you gain the 5% fire crit and fire damage, opposed to the felguard where you gain really only the 5% damage.
I find a couple issues with the felguard in which I find myself chosing the imp in place of him. First off, I would not consider the felguard to do superior dps to the imp. With the demo talents you can get and the imp glyph your gaining a very nice percentage to your imps damage and I have found the outcome of the two's overall damage to not be that far apart depending on the fight. Also, when I ran with the felguard I found him dying alot especially due to the fact that he angles himself in close proximity to the boss's/mobs melee range and find him getting either cleaved, or taking excessive damage, and when investing the talents you do into the demo tree you really cannot afford to lose your pet.
I have really been enjoying the hybrid specs that I have played around with so far. I will continue to test any spec I find to have potential to come up with the the one that will provide the best dps for myself.
There is also a felguard glyph. Without swapping that in, you can't really make that fair a comparison.
I've tried both specs (0/41/30 and 0/31/40), although with about 6 different gear upgrades:
I can see that you did a pretty significant amount of more dps while using your felguard xizorz. I am going to be making my decision between the two hybrid specs most likely tuesday. Sunday I will be testing out 0-40-31 on a ten man naxx run, and on tuesday our weekly 25 heroic naxx, sarth, and malygos encounters. I will be using all up to date flasks, food, pots etc, and shall be getting my 4 piece t7 after I get one more badge. I will post parses on sunday, and again on tuesday.
On a side note, I have been using my 4 piece t6 bonus and have done some simple napkin math to come up with needing arouind 220 spellpower in order to replace that 4 piece t6 bonus for it to be a worthwhile upgrade. For the hybrid spec Im using now or even a 2-13-56 destro chaos bolt spec the bonus is very nice to have. I know that I will be needing to drop the set bonus soon, but I wanted to know your guys take on it. I have a few nice items in the bank: a new belt, and bracers, that I am prepared to replace my t6 with. The problem is the items I have lack hit and are nowhere coming close to giving me the stats I need that my 4 piece is giving me at the moment. Any suggestions on going about dropping this bonus? 6% passive dmg to my main damaging spell(incinerate) is very nice to have, and I feel I won't want to replace it till one of three things happen: I get my 4 piece t7, I store a few items away till i have equivelent gear to match what my 4 piece t6 bonus is giving me, or i go an affliction build.
I've decided to just give up on trying to keep 4-piece Tier 6 equipped. Eventually you're going to replace the gear -- it's going to happen. If you're in a guild that clears all content on a weekly basis (or even 10 man content), I think it's more trouble than it's worth to figure out exactly where the breaking point is between losing T6 and keeping the 4-piece at the expense of much better individual pieces. Once you have a full set of new gear, T6 will mean nothing -- might as well say goodbye.
What are you affliction locks (56/0/15) using to open with? I currently have a Curse(coa usually)->Corr->Haunt->UA->Immo set up, but I feel it is not necessarily the best option. Should I cast haunt first and move CoA to the back of the opening sequence? I am also not casting SL at all unless it is a raid dmg intensive fight (Wintergrasp sometimes) because it lowers my dps. I also cast lifetap over dark pact because it returns over 3500 mana per gcd instead of DP's 2800, with nearly half L70 gear..this will certainly scale even better with more spirit. Another question for discussion would be not recasting immolate after 35% boss hp because at that point shadow will be scaling much better with Death's Embrace. In fact I don't even like immolate now, but I know its worth casting until additional multipliers come into play.
Ya i agree blickz, thanks. I think I will just start replacing it one by one. Also nukez I see that you are trying the imp spec i mentioned over the felguard(0-40-31) Let me know how your parses look on your next raid if you dont mind. I will be posting mine as well. I really want to break it down between those two specs whether imp or felguard pushes more dps.
11/28/08, 1:40 PM
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