RoyalBoss

Imo the best rotation to start off on boss fights (assuming you don't have to elements) would be Sbolt > Haunt > UA > Immo > Corr > CoA > SL

I always start with an sbolt becasue it applies 1 stack of SE up, then the haunt puts the 2nd stack up. UA & Immo go hand in hand (imo)

 

Darkstarrz

Has anyone figured the dps difference between a 0-13-58 spec compared to the hybrid Demo/Destro specs? Ive yet to raid in wrath as a CB destro spec, although I did a bit in beta and at 70. I'd like to see which spec can push higher dps in terms of the 25 man raids and the buffs that comes along with it. Ive seen a few parses and maalakai ripped patchwerk as a deep destro CB spec pushing over 5k dps. Was rng in your favor or does this spec just have the capabilities of pushing this kind of dps? This is something I'd like to try and look further into.

Pre wrath I raided a CB spec without conflag/backdraft and found it to do similar or even more dps then sacrificing all those destro talents into them. Has anyone found it to do more dps without speccing the points into backdraft/conflag at 80?

 

Naratu

0/31/40 WWS:Wow Web Stats

I think that once people gear out properly, 0/31/40 will be the way to go. In my opinion, the spec seems to have the most scaling, as it is the spec which gains from gear upgrades the most. When I think back to the early days in Karazhan, I remember the exact same thing as now - Affliction was topping meters until people got proper gear. Once people were geared out, Destruction left affliction in the dust as a result of bad scaling - an issue which is still a part of the Affliction tree.

It is probably also worth mentioning that while boss meters are nice, they are not the entire instance. Since there isn't really content hard enough to require a perfect min/max boss build, I think that speccing for overall instance damage is the way to go, to clear the zone as fast as possible. Once again, Affliction fails here.

As far as picking up a felguard as opposed to Shadow and Flame, I think that once again, Felguard will do good early due to flat modifiers, but once gear scaling comes into play, it won't be able to keep up with a Shadow and Flame build.

 

BeerBelly

I know we've established that the The Egg of Mortal Essence procs off Fel Armor ticks when you're not full health, but I was just wondering if anyone knew if it procs of Siphon Life or Drain Life as well?

 

Devourment

I don't disagree that another demo/destro(deeper here, 31/40 sounds right) will of course scale in the end, in both terms of total raid dps as well as boss dps, that is not a reason to count out affliction as a viable spec now.

Affliction may not be exceptional trash dps (we all want to clear the zone faster I agree) but for single high-hp mob pulls, its very easy to run a full rotation and provide above-average dps as well as multi-target dotting on multiple mob pulls. Affliction also helps SoC damage as well. 56/0/15 is very scalable as well, since I have increased dps dramatically from all L70 to over half L80 gear in this spec(above and beyond acclimation to the dot uptime priority, I played affliction for the entire first half of TBC), thanks to all the multipliers in the affliction tree.

 

DiamondTear

I open with whatever usually, but immolation and siphon life usually come last.

I think this guide would be a great read for you:
World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> WOTLK affliction raiding guide

 

Devourment

I don't disagree that another demo/destro(deeper here, 31/40 sounds right) will of course scale in the end, in both terms of total raid dps as well as boss dps, that is not a reason to count out affliction as a viable spec now.

Affliction may not be exceptional trash dps (we all want to clear the zone faster I agree) but for single high-hp mob pulls, its very easy to run a full rotation and provide above-average dps as well as multi-target dotting on multiple mob pulls. Affliction also helps SoC damage as well. 56/0/15 is very scalable as well, since I have increased dps dramatically from all L70 to over half L80 gear in this spec(above and beyond acclimation to the dot uptime priority, I played affliction for the entire first half of TBC), thanks to all the multipliers in the affliction tree.

 

Maalakai

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft


My gear is focused on damage, haste, and spirit for Affliction.

 

Presarc

I'm wondering if anyone has done the math comparing 2/3 Molten Core (as you see in Maalakai's build) VS a 53/0/18 Affliction build that swaps 2/3 Molten Core and 3/3 Fel Concentration for 5/5 Improved Shadow Bolt. Over an entire Naxx 25 run, I'm seeing myself (as 56/0/15) with 32% of my total damage dealt from Shadow Bolt, as compared to 7% of my total damage dealt (including Initial + DoT) with Immolate. Unless Molten Core is over 4x as effective as Improved Shadow Bolt in increasing DPS, I think an argument could be made for a build that takes ISB over MC.

Losing Fel Concentration is a marginal loss.

 

Elderx

I am hearing that using Drain Soul as a filler instead of Shadow Bolt, can anyone show me that why Drain Soul would be better choice than SB.

SB can crit and will renew Corruption, Drain Soul not.

 

Devourment

Drain soul ticks for over 6k below 25%.

 

Elderx

Yes, but i dont understand what makes it tick for such insane dmg.

Edit/ And if you mean Death's Embrace isn't it 35% ? /Edit

 

Threnalish

It is simply a basic function of Drain Soul to do 4x damage below 25%

Tooltip: Drains the soul of the target, causing 710 Shadow damage over 15 sec. If the target is at or below 25% health, Drain Soul causes four times the normal damage. etc...

Not totally sure what you are asking if this isn't it. Apparently below 25% it is just better dps than SB so it's better filler, even if it means spending a GCD to refresh corruption. But you would probably use your Nightfall procs anyway and still be casting some SBs.

 

krilz

If you keep Haunt up you won't have to refresh Corruption. And Nightfall procs should still be done during DS fillers. The key is to wait DS tick once or twice and then interrupt it to keep DoTs up. Still gives better DPS than SB's.

 

kaib

Can't say I have looked at spreadsheet/simcraft math, but shouldn't crit be a better stat then haste for affl? Your main dmg sources are sbolt, Corr and UA. Now back on lvl 70, haste slightly outscaled crit for sbolt, but not by all that much really. But that's a slow cast while haste has a much weaker effect on GCD/fast casts, which is most you do as affl after all.

Didn't really do math on that, anyone looked into that a bit more seriously?

 

Daidai

For Affli i got crit=haste.

Drain soul is a option when the mob is affected with 12 affliction-debuffs. But when do you have 12+ debuffs?
Until 11-12 debuffs SB seems to be the better option.

 

Jangro

Drain Soul is flat out better below 25% with just your own debuffs in tow unless you have near enough a 100% crit chance on your shadowbolts.

 

DiamondTear

Next poster that claims that SB beats DS better have some math to prove it.

 

Daidai

I iused (and did some improvements on DS, that it includes the debuffs) leuliers spreadsheet, and only above 11 debuffs DS beats SB.
But it is much more easier keeping SB as filler. DS is at 12+ debuffs better, including the difficulty to clip DS after a tick to refresh dots.

 

DiamondTear

That spreadsheet was made pre-wotlk.

 

Cohren

Drain Soul flat out beats SB under 25%, you don't need to do any math to see that. You get 4% from the spell mechanics, you get 12% from Death's Embrace, and you get 4% per affliction spell up to 60%.

So even if your the only Warlock at 25% your getting 36% increased damage+ 20% from Haunt. Even with perma ISB, you can't do close to that kind of damage.


Edit:

Now that people have decent crit/hit/haste how are you finding Destruction compares to affliction in 25 mans? Trying to get back into the raid game after 6+ months away from the game and am way behind.

 

Evyle

I am in a farily hard core raiding guild (we raid 5 nights a week about 4-5 hours per raid -- just going back to our normal raids on Monday). I am trying to squeeze that little bit more dps out of my spec for raids. From what I have read the 56/0/15 seems to perform the best based around the T7/Heroics/sunwell mix.

Currently my dps is not where I want it and trying to figure how to spec a little better (currently 54/0/17).
I did have a few questions about some of the talents people took for that 56/0/15.

Eradication - do you go with just 1 point in it or is 2 or even 3 in it better now. There was information in the past that 1 point was all you needed to get almost full benifit.

Molten core - would it be better to go with 1/3 molten core and drop 1 point out of the improved shadow bolt (having 4/5) as immolate is still a decent part of our damage

hit cap - the build has 3% more hit for the affliction but not the 3% for destro (based on lack of talent points to spread). I take it you would still go beyond the 289 or so + hit (usually have a shadow priest in raid for the +3%.. on horde so no +1% from derani).

If only 1/3 Eradication is needed that possibly leaves 3 talent points that don't have a "have to" place 53/0/15 +3
based on this spec
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warlock -> Talent Calculator

possibly putting those last 3 points into
5/5 ISB from 4/5
2/3 cataclysm from 0/3 (else I know I will end up getting more + hit at the expense of + damage via gems)

and one last question for rotation
shadow bolt/haunt first... why not have corruption for the very next vs ua/immo to get the various proc's going from corruption?

 

◊ voy1d

To get a two stack of Shadow Embrace up to have your DoT's deal 10% more damage.

 

Styg

I've gone with a 21/50 build with Demonic Sacrifice and all the damage increasing talents from Destructions (sans Backdraft) and after replacing most of my T6 gear finding it to be quite acceptable for DPS. On patchwerk this weekend I was able to do 3.7k DPs. My main "rotation" was keeping Immolate, Curse of Agony and Corruption up and spamming Incinerate when they were all ticking. Molten Core uptime was pretty close to 100%.

Got a few upgrades after the kill so looking forward to seeing how the damage goes up.

 

Darkstarrz

Are you guys finding a 0-13-58 spec to be doing more dps than the 0-40-31 or 0-31-40 hybrid spec? I've still yet to raid at level 80 as a heavy destruction spec, and I am curious if anyone has found it to be more more of a viable dps spec then the demo/destro hybrid builds. I will be testing it out on our next 25 man on tuesday and any feedback before than would be great.