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01/09/09, 12:06 AM
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#151
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Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Warlock
Turalyon
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Originally Posted by Talimar
From the latest patch notes:
* Glyph of Felhunter - When your felhunter uses Devour Magic, you will also be healed for that amount. (Old - Increases the critical strike chance of your Felhunter's Shadow Bite ability by 0%)
* Glyph of Conflagrate - Your Conflagrate spell no longer consumes your Immolate or Shadowflame spell from the target. (Old - Reduces the mana cost of Conflagrate by 20%)
I assume this makes the conflag glyph a must for destruction locks. Will it take over for the CoA glyph?
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Yes. Imp Immo Conflag seems like the destro set.
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01/09/09, 12:25 AM
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#152
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Warlock
Sargeras
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Originally Posted by Krazen
Yes. Imp Immo Conflag seems like the destro set.
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Interestingly, a blue post on the conflag glyph claims that CoA glyph is being changed to be an actual DPS increase as well.
Link via MMO-champion
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01/09/09, 2:40 AM
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#153
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Banned
Undead Warlock
Dawnbringer
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If the "new" glyph of Curse of Agony adds on two large ticks instead of two medium ticks, I don't think the glyph would be that great.
My medium ticks for about 976, and my large tick is about 1159 (I'm affliction). That's a difference of 183 dmg.
183*2 / 28 = 13 dps increase. Add in the original forecasted dps of (Shadow Bolt dmg) * 0.0029166666666666666666666666666667 more DPS (my Shadowbolt hits for 6.4k), and that's 18 more dps. Total is about 30-35 dps.
It's a nice glyph, but I don't think it'll scale that well.
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01/09/09, 2:42 AM
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#154
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Warlock
Cho'gall
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It's two extra even higher ticks at the end. Completely unspecced, but with CoA glyph on PTR:
272, 272, 272, 273, 345, 346, 345, 345, 417, 418, 417, 418, 490, 490
Edit: Naked values: 71x4, 144x4, 216x4, 289x2
Last edited by Zaleiria : 01/09/09 at 2:50 AM.
Reason: naked values
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01/09/09, 1:28 PM
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#155
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Zaleiria
It's two extra even higher ticks at the end. Completely unspecced, but with CoA glyph on PTR:
272, 272, 272, 273, 345, 346, 345, 345, 417, 418, 417, 418, 490, 490
Edit: Naked values: 71x4, 144x4, 216x4, 289x2
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(289-145)*2
*1.13
*(1+2*0.05+5*0.03+5*0.01)
*(1+5*0.02)
*(1+3*0.04*0.35)
*(1.2)
*(1.01)
*(1.03)
 605.36 more damage
605.36/28  21.6 dps increase then the current version coa glyph
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01/09/09, 6:33 PM
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#156
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Von Kaiser
Gnome Warlock
Blade's Edge
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Glyph of Imp vs. Glyph of Immolate for Affliction: How do they compare?
I've been thinking about this, but I'm not sure of the answer. From my own calculations, my Imp does 263.45 DPS Glyphed where Immolate does 282.6 DPS Glyphed. The big flaw in my calculations is that it does not take Crit into account. I have no idea how much Crit my Imp has.
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01/10/09, 1:14 AM
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#157
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Von Kaiser
Gnome Warlock
Gorgonnash (EU)
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If one was to believe SimCraft, the CoA glyph would be better than the Corr glyph, even before the coming buff.
I don't know why but can only imagine that in practice, you are not able to refresh every dot exactly the moment it runs out because you might have to finish casting your filler spell. Thus, you can gain much more than just 1 gcd every 168 seconds by glyphing CoA. Plus, the corruption glyph is hardly an improvement during the sub-25% phase, while not having to refresh your CoA as often can really help getting more of those nifty DS ticks in.
SimulationCraft with standard templates, 25.000 iterations:
Glyph of Corruption: +17 dps
Glyph of CoA: +39 dps
(over no glyph)
Of course, even with so many iterations there still are fluctuations, but the CoA glyph comes out ahead by over 20 dps all the time.
I'm not sure if it is modeled correctly, but the displayed numbers seem to indicate so (CoA damage per cast scales linearly with the increased duration).
Last edited by Morrigan : 01/10/09 at 1:26 AM.
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01/10/09, 2:00 AM
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#158
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The Chairmaker
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CoA is modeled correctly for the 3.0.3 version, yes. Keep in mind that Simulationcraft models lag, heroism, mana/lifetap, etc,, something pure math usually doesn't.
The lag parameters in the default raid_80.txt config file adds 250 ms to every instant cast. And the time that you're saving every 168 seconds isn't just used to cast shadow bolts, it's used after 25% to cast drain soul, which will be under the effect of heroism, etc.
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01/10/09, 6:32 AM
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#159
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Von Kaiser
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I currently have Imm and Imp and nothing to put in my third slot. Should I just stick CoA in there or go with like Healthstone or something? CoA appears to be a DPS increase (slightly) and better than a non-DPS glyph I'd think.
Last edited by Viper007Bond : 01/10/09 at 6:56 AM.
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01/10/09, 6:34 PM
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#160
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Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Warlock
Turalyon
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Originally Posted by Weerea
Interestingly, a blue post on the conflag glyph claims that CoA glyph is being changed to be an actual DPS increase as well.
Link via MMO-champion
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Yeah, that post was made before the Agony changes. That said, the Agony glyph isn't a great dps increase by itself.
You're basically shifting 2 middle ticks of .1 * SP + 144 to 2 end ticks of .1 + SP + 288 or so. It's a flat increase that doesn't scale with gear and doesn't have a lot of multipliers in a destro build.
The bigger gain is still the 1 GCD per 168 seconds, but that's constant.
The way I see it, you have 2 options.
1. Glyph agony, and spec 2/13/56, dropping unholy power.
2. Glyph imp, spec 0/20/51, dropping either soul leech of fnb.
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01/12/09, 11:06 AM
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#161
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Glass Joe
Undead Warlock
Nagrand (EU)
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new agony glyph is what im going to get instead of glyph of corruption. a bit simplified rotation and less time wasted when drain souling(below 35% passive 12% damage buff and drain soul as filler after 25% is pros for CoA glyph since agony scales better with final spelldamage multipliers and less time wasted for refreshing coa.) .
SB multipliers in Raid;
1,15 shadowmastery-1,03 BM hunter-1,13 Ebon plague
final multiplier before %35 passive buff=1,33
CoA damage Multipliers
1,1 improved CoA-1,2 Haunt-1,1 Shadow embrace-1,05 Contagnion-1,15 shadowmastery-1,03 BM hunter-1,13 Ebon plague
final multiplier before %35 passive buff=2.04
"after %35, calculated dps difference between new CoA glyph and Corruption glyph will be higher than rest 65%."
Last edited by nihilis : 01/12/09 at 11:30 AM.
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01/12/09, 2:57 PM
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#162
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Paladin
Shu'halo
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Originally Posted by Blacksen
You don't get 4 seconds. Imagine this scenario...
You have 168 seconds and you're aiming for 100% CoA uptime.
Without the glyph, it takes 7 global cooldowns to keep CoA up 100% of the time. (168/24 = 7)
With the glyph, it takes 6 global cooldowns to keep CoA up 100% of the time. (168/28 = 6)
The glyph saves you 1 global cooldown every 168 seconds. It really is that simple. The DPS increase is thus TINY. The global cooldown equates to a little more than one shadowbolt per fight.
If you have Amplify Curse, this means you're getting 1 second of extra dps time every 168.
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I still don't think that math is valid because you are not taking into account what you are doing while CoA is up. It's simple common sense, longer duration = more time to do other stuff. This math would be true if all you were doing was casting CoA, but we aren't.
Look at it this way. If we throw SB into the mix within the 24 seconds that an un-glyphed CoA allows us you can cast almost 11 SBs. Within 28 seconds you can cast about 12.5. That's 1.5 more shadow bolts. Now lets say your average non-crit SB hits for 3500. 3500*1.5 = 5250 divide that by 60 seconds and you have an extra 87.5 dps.
the DPS you gain doesn't come from the actual CoA, it comes from the time you are given to do other things.
Last edited by tkoreaper : 01/12/09 at 3:06 PM.
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01/12/09, 4:06 PM
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#163
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Warlock
Sen'jin
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Originally Posted by tkoreaper
I still don't think that math is valid because you are not taking into account what you are doing while CoA is up. It's simple common sense, longer duration = more time to do other stuff. This math would be true if all you were doing was casting CoA, but we aren't.
Look at it this way. If we throw SB into the mix within the 24 seconds that an un-glyphed CoA allows us you can cast almost 11 SBs. Within 28 seconds you can cast about 12.5. That's 1.5 more shadow bolts. Now lets say your average non-crit SB hits for 3500. 3500*1.5 = 5250 divide that by 60 seconds and you have an extra 87.5 dps.
the DPS you gain doesn't come from the actual CoA, it comes from the time you are given to do other things.
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The Glyph doesn't extend the fight 4 seconds for every CoA you have, it just shifts back your GCD 4 seconds every CoA. You're still going to be doing the same refereshing of dots + fillter you're already doing. The only difference is every 168 seconds you save 1 of those GCD's by not casting CoA again.
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01/12/09, 6:38 PM
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#164
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Banned
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Im sorry if the answer was buried somewhere else before, but between Immolate/CoA/Imp glyphs which one do you drop for the new Conflag glyph.
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01/12/09, 6:44 PM
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#165
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by xaoc.
Im sorry if the answer was buried somewhere else before, but between Immolate/CoA/Imp glyphs which one do you drop for the new Conflag glyph.
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CoA. It's DPS increase isn't that great.
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