Don't want to start a whole new debate about this, but Immolate Glyph as Deep Affliction? When do you have the time to add Immolate into your spell rotation long enough for it to earn its own Glyph? By the time I use Haunt, UA, Corruption, SL, CoA, I got enough time for 1 SB, before I need to recast Haunt and UA...
Having immolate in your rotation is higher dps than without.
Don't want to start a whole new debate about this, but Immolate Glyph as Deep Affliction? When do you have the time to add Immolate into your spell rotation long enough for it to earn its own Glyph? By the time I use Haunt, UA, Corruption, SL, CoA, I got enough time for 1 SB, before I need to recast Haunt and UA...
Recast haunt when the debuff is about to fade, not when it comes off cooldown.
Don't want to start a whole new debate about this, but Immolate Glyph as Deep Affliction? When do you have the time to add Immolate into your spell rotation long enough for it to earn its own Glyph? By the time I use Haunt, UA, Corruption, SL, CoA, I got enough time for 1 SB, before I need to recast Haunt and UA...
Also, a silly question but still couldn't find an answer for it in the forums... Does Nightfall and the Nightfall Glyph (forgot his name) stack? Cause I've seen people claim both things, and it's kinda important cause if it doesn't stack, then this Glyph saves us 2 talent points...
It does stack, but not sure if it's additive (in that case 8%) or multiplicative (7.8% or so).
As for the rotation: Immolate does fit in and very nicely. Start first with SB+Haunt (for SE) and then all your DoTs (in my preference: Corr, CoA, SL, UA, Immo) and then 2xSB before it's time with Haunt again. Haunt has worse DPCT than SB and shouldn't be prioritized because of it. The only reason you want to cast Haunt is because of renewing the debuff.
If you want me to motivate my DoT-rotation then just ask.
I would like to suggest that it doesn't matter how the glyph of corruption stacks with nightfall. In real terms, the .16% difference between the additive stacking of 8% and the multiplicative stacking of 7.84% means that over a 10 minute period (thats 600 seconds, with 1 tick every 3 seconds for a total of 200 ticks) you will notice an extra .3 procs. That means it would realistically take more than a half hour of continuous corruption duration before you would notice any difference at all under 'ideal' circumstances. Given the capriciousness of the RNG it's debatable that even if the proc rate were to be measured over multiple thousands of casts in multiple hundreds of circumstances that the measured value would be able to show which is actually the case, additive or multiplicative without the other case falling within the realm of reasonable error.
To that end, in order to simplify our lives and any napkin math we may do regarding this glyph, I propose we just take the combined proc rate at 8% and move on to how it compares to other glyphs.
Also, a comment on glyph of UA. After some hardly exhaustive testing chain casting UA on a target dummy until I ran out of mana, both before and after glyph, I have come to the conclusion that it does indeed seem to impact the GCD, at least in my limited ability to test such. I would however recommend further testing in this regard because i have a feeling that latency may have played a factor in my ability to do this as every so often I noticed that a cast wouldn't go through because 'it wasn't ready yet'. Further, I have a feeling, and this is something I didn't explicitly test, that the glyph applies the .2 second reduction to the base speed of the cast and not absolutely. This appeared to reduce its value somewhat at higher levels of haste where immolate seemed to almost 'gain' .1 second of casting time on glyphed UA.
I'm interested in other peoples thoughts and experiences on this.
I'm curious why you would use Glyph of Corruption over Glyph of Immolate in a 0/41/30 rotation. I was under the assumption that the standard cast sequence for 0/41/30 was CoA->Immolate->Incinerate, reapply both DoTs as needed, and that Corruption, even w/ the improved coefficient, was a worse option than another Incinerate.
I'm curious why you would use Glyph of Corruption over Glyph of Immolate in a 0/41/30 rotation. I was under the assumption that the standard cast sequence for 0/41/30 was CoA->Immolate->Incinerate, reapply both DoTs as needed, and that Corruption, even w/ the improved coefficient, was a worse option than another Incinerate.
Worse option even when taking into account the Molten Core talent?
In the end I picked Glyph of Corruption and Glyph of Immolate (over Glyph of Agony), because I often have to use CoR or CoE over CoA. Would be intresting to know whats the best option though, incase one has the option to cast CoA.
For a deep affliction build, I'm not even sure that the Corruption glyph is all that useful, in comparison with the Siphon life glyph.
Against a single target, you will, on average, get 1 proc every 75 seconds, since corruption only ticks once every 3 seconds. This is assuming the glyph is addative with Nightfall, but honestly I don't think it matters too much.
1/.04 * 3 seconds = 75 seconds.
Example:
In a 6 minute fighe:
300 seconds(total time) / 3 seconds(corruption tick) * .04 (chance for nightfall proc) = 4
300/4 = 75
So, with the Corruption glyph, you will get .0133 extra procs per second of nightfall. (1/.75)
Given this, we can figure out roughly the DPS contribution of a Nightfall proc and compare it to other glyphs. For simplicity purposes, I'm assuming that the extra time you gain from Nightfall is spent casting Shadow Bolt.
Assumptions:
2000 +dmg
25% crit
20% haste
I'm using these because believe they're fairly close to what most affliction locks will see in a raid situation. If I'm way off the mark I'll redo this with different values.
With 20% haste, 1 nighfall proc is equivalent to gaining .833 seconds, or an extra .4 Shadow Bolts per proc.
(2.5/(1+.2) Regular Shadow Bolt) - (1.5/(1+.2) Nightfall GCD) = .833 seconds
.833 / (2.5/(1+.2)) = .4 Shadowbolts
Each Shadow Bolt is on average 3524.6 damage, or 1413.8 dmg per nightfall proc.
(730 base damage + (.8571 coefficient * 2000))*(1 + 1.03 crit modifier * .25 crit chance) * 1.15 shadow mastery = 3534.6 damage
3534.6 * .4 = 1413.8
Since you get .0133 procs per second of nightfall, the glyph is worth a mere 18.8 DPS.
1413.8 * .0133 = 18.8
This is without even including things like chances to double proc. Of course, if you have corruption up on more than 1 mob, the DPS boost is greater (37.6 on 2 mobs, 56.4 on 3) but you also have a significantly higher chance of notbeing able to use procs, as they're much more likely to overwrite each other and if youre keeping DoTs up on 2-3 or more mobs you'll be spending alot less time Shadow Bolting. Even keeping Corruption up on 2 mobs at once, you still are barely getting a DPS increase compared to the SL glyph.
Please feel free to critique my math, as I was doing it all as I went along so some of it may be wrong.
You forgot CoE and its counterparts. Also, I would rather see a comparison against the glyph of CoA, since it's the one that provides you with extra time to cast SB, not the glyph of SL.
I compared it to the SL glyph because that is the glyph I usually see people neglecting for CoA, Immo ect. Personally, I use the CoA glyph just because it allows me to have a fairly simple rotation where I only let one tick of CoA drop every 30 seconds, so thats just a personal choice.
If you want to include CoE and equivalents, the math would look like this:
So for single target DPS the SL glyph is still superior.
If you really want a comparison with the CoA Glyph:
Same Stats as my previous post
2000 spellpower
25% crit
20% haste
No Amplify Curse:
CoA unglyphed uses 1.25s of casting time per 24 seconds, or .0520 seconds spent casting per second
CoA Glyphed is 1.25s per 28 seconds, or .0446 seconds spent casting per second
So with the glyph you gain .0074 seconds to cast every second
A Shadow Bolt cast time is 2.083 seconds. (2.5*(1/1.2)
.0074/2.083 = .0036 Shadow Bolts per second
Shadow Bolt does 3994 damage (above) so you gain 14.19 DPS. (.0036*3994)
This is lower than the Corruption Glyph, however in my opinion it is still worth using for the reason I mentioned above.
If you take the Amplify Curse talent, the DPS gains are less, as the amount of time spent casting CoA is very low.
Hope this helps.
Edit: CoA comparison was done assuming that the CoA glyph adds 2 ticks in the middle, as has been previously stated. This implies that it doesn't increase the DPS of the spell, just its DPCT.
On another note, does anyone else find it odd that mathimatically the most beneficial glyph for an affliction warlock is Immolate? Unless my math is wrong.
I'm sure I'm going to be laughed at, but has anyone bothered to do the math on Glyph of Felhunter? My instinct is that it won't add all that much dps (given that it would only be a small increase to a small portion of your overall dps), but it seems like some of these other warlock options for the 3rd glyph slot are very bad, so maybe a glyph that seems very bad might not be any worse.
In regards to Faxmonkey's question about the Felhunter glyph, I don't see how it could even come close. While I don't have enough data to determine how effective Shadow Bite is in a raid environment, due to its inherent 6s cooldown it would be VERY hard to get a noticible DPS boost out of it. Just to get a 21 DPS boost out of it, you woul need to increase its average damage by 126.
Maths:
Average dmg + 126 = Average dmg(1+1.5*.06)
126 = 1.09 Average damage - Average damage
126 = .09 Average Damage
Average Damage = 1400
I might be wrong but I don't think Shadow Bite is anywhere near that. If anyone has any data on this it would help.
Update: I went through some various WWS parses from different affliction locks to try and find out an average Shadow Bite damage.
Looking over some DPS parses, Shadow Bite seems to be at about 500-600 average damage.
On another note, does anyone else find it odd that mathimatically the most beneficial glyph for an affliction warlock is Immolate? Unless my math is wrong.
Thanks for doing the math, I figured that the corruption glyph provided more dps than the CoA glyph. I don't think the immolate glyph being so good is odd, since both haunt and SE do boost dot damage.
The SB is to help on limiting life tapping and resultant dps loss, the SL is for SS farming, and the Corr is for the free SB.
One of the main reasons I love the Corruption glyph has not even been mentioned. It auto fires. Any spell that I dont have to mix into my priority/rotation is one for me.
Here's my question to you all though. When the corruption glyph SB hits, its not stacking Shadows Embrace. Do you all know if this is intentional or a bug?
Tommtomm, the "autofire" you're talking about is not at all related to the corruption glyph. Rather it is your Timbal's Focusing crystal procs, that happen to look like Shadowbolts. Obviously, these don't contribute to your Shadow Embrace because they're not actually shadowbolts. The Corruption glyph does NOT autofire.
Last edited by Juised : 12/02/08 at 8:24 PM.
Reason: spelling
I'm sure by "autofire" he means that you get the benefit of the instant cast spell automatically when you cast your next shadowbolt, rather than having to adapt or adjust your rotation to add in something that procced.
Edit: Even if he was misinterpretting the Timbal's proc, there's some validity to the point that one benefit of the corruption glyph is it doesn't increase the complexity of your rotation.
Tommtomm, the "autofire" you're talking about is not at all related to the corruption glyph. Rather it is you Timbal's Focusing crystal procs, that happen to look like Shadowbolts. Obviously, these don't contribute to your Shadow Embrace because they're not actually shadowbolts. the Corruption glyph does NOT autofire.
Doh, I'm a noob.
I got that trinket a couple days before Wotlk came out, on the same day I added my glyphs. Thank you very much for the correction. This would explain my further misunderstanding as to why shadows embrace was not stacking.
So with a 0/20/51 Destro build would a Conflagrate Glyph be worth it? The glyphs that are being used are Corruption, Immolate, but didn't know what to put in that 3rd slot. Would the Imp one go in there?
So with a 0/20/51 Destro build would a Conflagrate Glyph be worth it? The glyphs that are being used are Corruption, Immolate, but didn't know what to put in that 3rd slot. Would the Imp one go in there?
Pet of choice that deep in destro is an imp, so I'd say the imp glyph is the appropriate choice. You've put talent points into improved imp in demo, and empowered imp in destro...so why not improve it more?
11/30/08, 10:16 AM
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