Did you notice anything regarding SE debuff? According to forums, it now appears for some, but doesnt increase the dmg done.

Regarding Glyph of CoA, I did some extensive tests, and result is as follows
Non glyphed CoA, over 24sec:
TickDmg= Mod*(73*group + SpellPower/12)
DPS= Mod*(SpellPower/15 + 73)
TotalDmg= Mod*(1.2*SpellPower + 24*73)

Glyphed CoA, over 28 sec:
TickDmg= Mod*(73*group + SpellPower/12)
DPS= Mod*(SpellPower/15 + 8/7*73)
TotalDmg= Mod*(1.4*SpellPower + 32*73)

Note:
- "Mod" is talent modifier = 1.1(imp.CoA) * 1.15(SM) *1.05(contagion). I didnt test with diff builds, only afflic, and my base tick was 97- so nontalented value of 73 is not tested
- "group" is 1 for first four ticks, 2 for second group of four ticks, 3 for third group of four ticks, and 4 for added two ticks
- "SpellPower" is current player spell power (+dmg) from gear/buffs/etc

Actual tests:
Above are attempts at formulas with glyph/non glyph. Below are raw numbers that were measured at test dummies:

All were measured with full affliction build 53/x/x, so with Improved CoA, ShadowMastery, Contagion, Malediction etc.

DPS increase:
1) 14 DPS from CoA itself (= Mod*73/7 , for non-afflic it can go down to 10 DPS)
2) whatever is gained from longer CoA duration, which is harder to quantify but has two parts:
.......2a) ~15 DPS from additional SB, but fight need to be over 300sec to really get additional SB, or
.......2b) ~15 DPS from guessed improvement on CoA coverage (if you get from 85% to 90% for example)

Both 2a and 2b are not exact and have issues (SB with fact that almost no fight last over 5min now, and coverage from being purely guesswork on influence of Glyph on CoA coverage). In addition, you probably cant have both of those - either you spent gained time to cast another SB, or to recast faster CoA.

Another important fact is that 14DPS gain from CoA itself do not depend on SpellPower, and thus do not depend on gear or any +dmg raid buffs - its flat 14DPS regardless. Second half (SB or CoA coverage DPS) does depend on buffs/gear, and guesstimated numbers are given with average buff values

Conclusion:
DPS gain from Glyph of CoA is min 14 DPS, expected/guessed is ~ 30 DPS
Therefore, at least for me, it is still for Glyphs: SL >Immo >= Imp > CoA

Thank you for confirming my results (#198). Though the equations for the full damage are a lot simpler

No Glyph:
(1740 + SP*1.2) * 1.30 * 1.03 * 1.13 / 24 sec = X DPS

Glyphed:
(2320 + SP*1.4) * 1.30 * 1.03 * 1.13 / 28 sec = Y DPS

(1.30 = Imp CoA + Shadow Mastery + Contagion)
(1.03 = Malediction)
(1.13 = CoE)

Also, it seems that no matter what amount of Spell Power you plug in, the difference from X to Y is always a static 15.67108214.

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When you say Imp > CoA, how much DPS does your Felhunter do post-patch? And how much DPS does your Imp do post-patch?

(And do you have Demonic Power, Improved Imp, and Glyph of Imp?)

I would like to jump in here with some numbers regarding demon's dps,

Imp
Fellhunter

This is our last night raid, both locks had different demons, my imp was not glyphed, but I do have Demonic Power and Improved Imp. Little guy did 394 dps, whereas fellpuppy 415. I am assuming glyph will at least somewhat equalize them. But Imp does seem to scale better with raid buffs, such as Demonic Pact. We had this buff last week, here is WWS:

Imp with DP

and it did 435, once again, no glyph of imp here. I wander what melee enhancing totems/buffs will benifit fellpuppy, as we did not have enhancement shaman yesterday.

So contrary to the expected opinion, Glyph of Imp > Glyph of CoA for destruction whether you spec into Unholy Power or Improved CoA?

Glyph of CoA is a static unscaling 15.xx dps increase, whereas my Imp did 576 dps on Patchwerk last night unglyphed and without Unholy Power, making the Glyph of Imp worth 57.6dps.

Wow Web Stats

I just ran about 6 trials on SimCraft and the data shows a very close race. Given there are only a few fights where you have zero movement, logic suggests to use CoA + Immo. Third glyph is conflag for these trials.

I'll run a more comprehensive set of tests with the different specs, but I believe the data will be about the same.

I did not have chance to measure them post-patch, seeing how patch was yesterday, but pre-patch my Imp DPS on Patchwerk was around 440. That is with 1 point in Demonic Power (~10%), 2 points in Improved Imp (20%), and Glyph of Imp (10%).

Therefore without Glyph of Imp I would lose 40 DPS, and 40 DPS is more than estimated 30 DPS from Glyph of CoA.

Of course, I mentioned that part of Glyph of CoA DPS is less dependant on buffs and +dmg . On the other hand, buffs influende Imp DPS a lot (especially spell haste buffs and crit debuffs on mob).

So in 5 man or some 10man scenarios Glyph of Imp DPS will drop to 30ish DPS, and Glyph of CoA will remain at 30ish DPS, making them similar. But fact that on 25man fully buffed encounters Glyph of Imp is better still make it better choice overall.

But while pre-patch I did not use felhunter after initial tests showed that he is inferior in DPS to imp, if after patch felhunter can do similar DPS then replacing Imp with Felhunter would make Glyph of CoA obviously more useful than Glyph of Imp.

Assuming glyph of imp is superior to glyph of coa--is this still true with 0/2 and/or 2/2 improved coa deep destro spec.

If directly comparing the 2 raid buffed and imp is greater dps, does this statement hold true when you factor in the GCD saving feature of COA glyph.

If I do some insanely quick napkin math on this, taking the average of my non crit incinerates on tuesday, which was 4766, and if i recall correctly the coa glyph saves a GCD every 168 seconds. This would make the coa glyph worth about 28.4 dps just from the GCD saving feature (assuming you cast incinerate with the saved GCD)
my tuesday WMO parse

What do you guys and girls make of this?

Unfortunatley I have no data parse's to hand, but on Archavion 25 on Weds night, as 41/30, my Glyphed felguard put out a whopping 1100 + DPS (according to recount) - damn near 1/3 of my total output.
the 10% - 20% change in the glyph along with the buffing of the ol' Skillguard have made quite the improvement it would seem.
Is everyone else seeing similar numbers?
I am running with immo, FG and Corruption glyphs atm.
Would the general consensus be that Glyph of Curse of agony > Glyph of Corruption nowadays?

2 things I don't think have been touched on with regards to Glyph of Imp and CoA.

1. What is the comparison of Felhunter + Glyph of CoA v. Imp + Glyph of Imp?

2. I know I personally have my Doomguard out for as many fights as possible and summon my Infernal for the last 1.5 min of any fight I can. Having either means no Imp and thus totally negating any dps gain from Glyph of Imp.

Only the GCD part of CoA glyph scales with spellpower. As #202 pointed out, the dps bonus from extra ticks is static. Since CoA glyph was worse than Corr before, this change makes it better only until we reach sufficient spellpower.

At the moment CoA is better.

I have been looking through this thread for the dps increase of immolate glyph with the improved immolate talent. I can only find numbers for affliction specs.

I'm going to try the 0/28/43 spec tomorrow and I've settled on the conflag and imp glyphs. But for my third slot I can't decide between immolate and agony.

Edit:
Found some math in the destruction thread here.

Immolate should be way better in that build.
Sorry for lack of maths or evidence of this, but I reckon I can safley say that without fear of being wrong :P

(Probably just jinxed myself there didn't I?)

Yes, like he pointed out, immolate scales while CoA does not. So while they are close now, immolate is better in the long run. And it's better to get used to the shorter duration now than later.

Oh and thanks to the same guy I passed on 0/28/43 and went 0/20/51 instead. I quite like it too.

Does anyone have an idea of what level of spell power we would need before CoA glyph loses out to the Corruption glyph again?

New glyphs incoming. Let the theorycrafting begin!


I think that these will be the most common glyph choices at a first glance:

Affliction:

Haunt, Curse of Agony, Life tap

Demonology:

Metamorphosis, Felguard/lifetap, immolate (for a meta build)

or

Incinerate, immolate, Felguard (for a felguard build)

Destruction:

this one is tricky and I´d rather not jump to conclusions yet.

I think the real question is what glyph NOT to take.

Imp may be a DPS improve but with all the changes in mana regen Blizz is making, Life tap will be much more needed and the spell damage increase might be a better option.

Then again, I think we are back to the beginning of the X-pack and a lot of testing is required to be sure of what will be the best.

The best Glyphs pre-3.1 in the new 3.1 light:

Glyph of Siphon Life - Since Siphon Life no longer causes damage, this glyph is now completely useless for raiding.

Glyph of Immolate - With all of the nerfs to Immolate in an Affliction build (namely Shadow Embrace and Haunt not affecting it, as well as the loss of Molten Core), is Immolate even still worth casting? Even if it is, this Glyph will give pretty poor returns for an Affliction Warlock.

Glyph of Curse of Agony - Only a static ~20 DPS increase. I disagree, Tauraherion, that people will still be using this post-patch.

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The Glyphs I think everyone will have post-3.1:

Glyph of Haunt - 3% increase on all shadow dots. Not bad.

Glyph of Life Tap - Say you have 600 Spirit raid-buffed. 20% is 120 spell power. Say you Life Tap twice per fight, so 120 * 40 sec / 60 = 80 spell power. Each point of spell power is worth roughly 1.5 DPS, so this is actually looking pretty good.

Glyph of Imp - Demonic Power is *easily accessible* now, since Molten Core has disappeared. Add in Improved Imp for even more Firebolt damage, and then Glyph of Imp on top of that for *another* 20% and wow, goodbye Felhunter!!!

Then use a build like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

And maybe even stack crit since haste doesn't affect pets.

Thoughts?

I disagree with you that Glyph of Immolate will be removed for all aff locks.

This build will increase the damage and make using the glyph viable.

53/0/18

Although, I do agree, there will be much testing to do before we can declare a clear winner in the dps race for glyphs. Haunt looks great and so does Life Tap. If anything, the new glyphs tighten the choices based on your talent picks. Very good streamlining here.

Currently the succubus is better than the felhunter for affliction. And I don't see that changing post 3.1. You need to waste 3 talent points and a major glyph slot for the imp to even try and compete with the succubus.

Anyone willing to do some maths on this? I wonder if six extra seconds on meta would out-dps Glyph of Corruption/Curse of Agony, also if 20% spirit as spell power is greater than 20% constant felguard damage.

On a side note, man loved those new pvp glyphs, slow on shadowflame and extra 5% damage absorption on soul link, damn!

I have yet to test this out yet (character still copying to PTR), or see any numbers on this, but if this is the case, that only changes a few points: move 2 from Improved Imp into Aftermath for the +% on Immolate, and the other point into 2/3 Eradication.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

Demonic Power would still be kept since it affects the Succubus as well.

Not too many options for an Affliction build anymore. It's just shuffling a few points here and there. Anyway, if the Succubus is best, then the above build seems like it will yield the most overall DPS.