Draakzull

Grand Firestone
Binds when picked up
Unique
Use: While applied to target weapon it increases damage dealt by direct spells by 1% and spell critical strike rating by 49. Lasts for 1 hour. In addition, each attack has a chance to deal 116 to 174 additional fire damage.

I think, but we can speak about it, that is enough to make me drop points from IH.

 

Akj

Not sure why you linked what a firestone does.

Master Conjuror Rank 2
Increases the combat ratings gained from your conjured Firestone and Spellstone by 30%.

30% of 49 crit rating = 14.7 crit rating which is quite a negligible dps gain for 2 talent points.

http://johngaltwow.net

 

Draakzull

Always better, from my point of view than 0 and a some hundred more life points given by healthstone..

 

vpchelko

I have test my build:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...h=071215000000

SB 37 hits: 62%
Immo: 40 ticks: 14%
CoA: 56 ticks: 10%
Corr: 36 ticks: 9.5%
Immo: 8 hits: 3%
1.5% tailor back enchant.

 

Rozzenwyn

Which was my point exactly. If you are going for max DPS then extra crit or haste (I use spellstone usually) is better than imp healthstone. People in my raids don't even complain, they just want a healthstone, they don't care its not improved.

 

vpchelko

http://wowwebstats.com/o1rvedfmxr6bm

Patchwerk lol lol lol my pet die.... I did not see that.... 28k hp buffed.

 

farkew

In my eyes, Meta/Ruin was always viable if you know how to keep the FG alive. I just think people dont give it enough credit yet. Sure the fg "fix" helps (about a 500dps increase for fg post 3.08) but even before the patch i was able to pull 5.2k on patchwerk. Also notice the lack of boomkin in our raid group and the fact that i was a nub and didnt pop a haste pot during heroism, so the potential to go higher is definitely still there. If you inspect my armory you will see that my gear is nothing special either, a mix of 10 and 25man stuff and still using sunwell wand too.

I'd love someone as geared as Maalakai to give Meta/Ruin a real go just to show what pretty much everything BiS gear can do as that spec. Problem is, not alot of people like the demonology playstyle so its difficult to guage exactly how effective it really is.

As for what i do as meta/ruin spec.

I use glyph of FG, Immo and Corruption, i use CoD instead of CoA. Considering that a Patchwerk kill is shorter than 3 mins, it means it is not possible to get 2 meta durations, on patchwerk, i just position myself about 5 yards behind the tanks, and stand there the whole fight (on other fights i make sure to drop a demo circle where im standing, pop meta, charge in, immo aura, then teleport back). I dont macro Demonic Empowerment i press it manually. When the fight starts i make sure to let my felguard stack demonic frenzy to at least 8 before popping Demonic Empowerment.
We generally pop heroism around 35% so i just make sure to go into Meta Form at 36%, use Immo aura then just spam my rotation, I keep CoD up at any time over 35%, if CoD pops under 35% i switch to CoA.

 

vpchelko

Yep I actually use SF in charge rotatio too. But currently it was my first 25 ppl Patchwerk kill. I will try save my new-FG any use charge in rotation in next battle.

CoA glyphed still takes 3rd places whith in warlock DoTs.
Immo 1st (glyphed) (deleted, I just look for recount's logs... any way Immo is 1st) Corr 2nd(regular), CoA 3rd(glyphed)....

 

farkew

Thats a very broad generalisation right there.

If we are talking demonology here, you have to take into account a tremendeous amount of support from either side (CoA vs CoD) to actually come up with a true right answer.

I havent done the hard maths on EXACTLY which method produces more dps, would love to see this maths if someone can provide those numbers however, when doing this maths one would have to consider.... straight dps of Glyphed CoA vs Straight dps of CoD, Dps increase of using corruption glyph in the CoD method, Mana usage of CoA vs CoD, extra SBs from glyphed corruption, extra ISB procs from nightfall procs, which method requires more lifetaps?, does the caster have 4pct7? do those extra lifetaps with 4pct7 equate to any extra dps?

Could probably keep going, but you can see its not as easy as looking blindly into this as "Glyphed CoA does more dmg in 1 minute than CoD".

 

Debby

Is there a problem with demonic pact? I saw it proc at the raid but not when in a heroic party despite pet's buffs...

 

jibblets

Using my gear, on three seperate three minute DPS tests {Well, six tests, I suppose. Three using only CoA against level 80 dummy, three using only CoD against level 80 dummy}, CoD still did more damage than CoA. {CoA did an average of 27079 damage over three minutes {over three tests}, whereas CoD did 33207}. I was using the Glyph of Curse of Agony.

I saw the math for the Corruption Glyph somewhere on this board, and I believe the absolutely abysmal overall damage increase suggests we should be using Glyph of Shadowbolt {If only because there is no real alternative, unfortunately}.

What kind of rotation are you running, Fark? CoD, then Corruption, then Immolate, then bolt and reapply? Or do you Immolate, then Corruption. How do you work with Metamorphisis? Have you macro'd the Meta/Charge/Immolation into one button, or do you just have strategic hotkeys?

 

nuibank

Change the time of your DPS to 2 minutes and 48 seconds and see what you get.

If you dont let the dots run their full duration, your comparison is worthless. I'm not disputing it, I'm just pointing out the flaw in your testing method.

 

vpchelko

This numbers with CoA and Immo glyph - Immo winner, maybe better to use SB glyph instead, and sway CoA by CoD. I will test it.
Immo: 40 ticks: 14%
CoA: 56 ticks: 10%
Corr: 36 ticks: 9.5%
Immo: 8 hits: 3%

 

farkew

I dont really use any macros for PVE.

The only thing that i have set up with metamorphosis is in bartender i have dedicated 1 bar purely to metamorphosis. When i go into meta form this bar overtakes my normal bar and has the extra keys to replace stuff that i wouldnt use during meta form.

I just manually spam charge/immo/teleport no macro.

As for rotation, i find that if i do Immo first and then corruption, the timers dont match and therefore i find myself chasing the dots around too much. I do corruption first followed by immolate, yes i know this doesnt maximise your immolate dot time but this way the dots are matched for duration pretty good with the GCDs in between, just makes the rotation more natural i guess.

I have also been thinking about using glyph of SB over corruption but cant bring myself to do it as sometimes (very rarely) when the glyph procs while you are moving its quite nice. I notice this to be the case quite alot on fights like Anub'rekhan where i can have multiple corruptions up at once.

 

Injez

Can somebody test Demonic Empathy? It is good talent or not? I can't normaly test it, because of lags on server.
I want to choose spec
50/21 - +5% crit for Shadow Bolt and Immolate. Even if only for SB - good dps increase, i think. And Molten core.
or
55/16 - Meta and Demonic Empathy.

Meta - only 30 seconds, terrible cooldown.
Empathy - increase FG's and own dps, but... how much? It is better than +5% crit to SB and +10% to immo?

 

vpchelko

Meta + Heroism I like this, Just get ready (full mana bar), before heroism and just spam SB.
1 point to Molten Core instead of Cataclysm (you will up immo damage, 2nd place of warlock's damage).
Empathy - if you crit every 15 sec it must be +3%.?

"+10% to immo?" ?

 

Injez

Empathy buffs me only after crit. FG's Cleave. With Improved Demonic Tactics is about 80% of time.
3%... is it good boost? Can somebody say about that in digits?

Molten Core.

 

vpchelko

Molten Core uptime is good. Demonic Pack uptime for me 99%. Yes, Empathy uptime it good only with Imp, and with Void -> zero uptime for master.

 

Krathis

Demonic Empathy is a pretty constant 3% damage increase to your pet in a raid environment. So if you're pet is doing 25% of your dps you're looking at close to a 1% increase there. If your felguard has a crit rate of 25% then you're looking at about 50% uptime (cleave goes off once every 6 seconds and Demonic Empathy lasts 15 seconds). So the talent comes in at less then 1% damage increase per point. It's not that good but if you're going full demo it's probably the best place to put the points.

Meta on the other hand if used poorly is a 3% damage increase on everything except your pet damage. This is if you just pop it every cooldown and never blow Immolation Aura. If used well you use it during bloodlust which increases the damage output considerably. You're double dipping in essence by increasing your damage by 20% while having your casting speed increased by 30%. On top of this you can pop a speed or wild magic pot. All of this is multiplicative damage. These things aside, Immolation Aura has an extremely high damage per cast time even for single target fights. I see most ticks come in right above 1k or 15k damage for one global cooldown. The sad thing about Immolation Aura is it doesn't seem to scale well. It was doing only a little less damage at 70 compared to now. I imagine it'll never hit the point it's not worth casting though this expansion because really, it is that good.

 

Yinchie

Anyone tested doomguard yet in 3.0.8 after hotfixes?
I am curious of the results compared to the felguard.

 

vpchelko

I have 6.5% !!!! miss VS Patchwerk.
My hit rating 351, Moonkin (improverd FF 3/3) + dranay is in raid. WTF???

WWS Loading...

 

• Zakalwe

Your Moonkin wasn't casting FF. If we also assume that the Draenei was in your raid, but not in your party, that would put you at an expected 3.66% miss rate. Add some bad luck, and 6.5% isn't entirely unreasonable.

 

Injez

lazy demonologs, nobody want to calculate.
ok, i'll try.

50/21:
+5% crit to SB and immo, +10% to immo.
+5% crit = +5% damage for SB and Immo. SB and immo is around 65% of damage, so +5% to 65% is +3.25% to total damage.
+10% immo, let's take 90% uptime (2 points), is +9% to immo, is +1.35% to total damage.
+3% hit in Cataclysm is +3% damage for SB and Immo, so it's +1.95%.
We can put 2 talents in Empathy or Improved Demonic Tactics.
Empathy (2/3) gives to us +2% to pet's damage, it's +0.5% to total damage, and +2% to spells damage with 37.5% uptime (pet's crit 15%), is +0.75% to total damage. Summary 2 points in Empathy, without points in Imp. Tactics, gives +1.25% to total damage.
Imp. Tactics(2/3) increase pets crit at 6% (approx.). is +1.5% to total damage (pet's damage is around 25% of total damage without empathy).
It's mean, that we will put 2 points in Improved Demonic Tactics.
So, summary +8.05% to total damage.

55/16:
Empathy+Meta (it will be difficult to calculate).

+3% to pet's dps (100% uptime for pet), pet's dps is around 30% of total, so it's +1% to total damage.
+3% to caster's damage, uptime is 62.5% (if pet's crit 25%), so it's +1.875% to total damage.
Meta - 1 time per fight, it's 30 seconds with +20% damage buff and +3% to total damage by Immolation (average from WWS). i will take 3 min for calculation, because after 3 min we can cast meta again. 30 seconds is 16%, so 20% * 16% = +3.2% to fight. Of course, in shorter fights increasing will higher.
1 point in molten core is approx. +1% to total damage, 1 point in cataclysm is +0.65%. Molten core is better.
Summary +1+1.875+2+3.2=+10.075% for total damage.

55/16 is better, and better scaled, but you must have good hit rating and stay near to target (for Immolation).
If you will not use Immolation 50/21 will be better, or same.
You can get much better results Immolation - in some fights is more than +10% to total damage.

Sorry for my terrible english and huge amount of mistakes in calculates.
But, i hope, i thinking in right direction and results are approximately right
If not - correct me, please.

 

Kilmir

In case you guys hadn't noticed it, Demonic Empathy has been increased to 2% per point with 3.0.8, or 6% total for 3/3.

 

Injez

No, i'm looking in game right now - 1% per point.