• Emolate

A tank died and he wound up on the Hateful strike list.

AKA: Sememe (Alliance Paladin: Eitrigg)

[W From] [Ollivan] we refer to that as "fail" in the community

 

KharzaXo

I'll need to go check our combat logs for Patch to see if our OTs died or something, but I know right at the end of Patch (literally 10-15 seconds before he died) I had popped meta, charged in, popped Immo aura and proceeded to get 2 hatefuls that ended my DPS run. On our next run I'll try the same sequence I did this last time, but instead I'll pop meta at the end charge in, soulshatter, then pop Immo aura and see if it makes a difference. We had a good number of dead melee dps as I remember so I very well could have been within hateful range on threat and hp when I popped meta and charged in.

*Edit - I just went back and checked and yep I would have been in hateful range at the end of the fight. We had 1 OT die and most of the other melee dps was dead by the time I ran in with meta

Switching gears..

We really started our 3D progression last night (god that fight is a lot of fun) and I just wanted to get some insight on some very interesting things I saw that made me scratch my head..

I was very very lax in our early attempts at pulling my FG out when a Flame wave was incoming.. but after awhile I noticed he didn't seem to get gibbed by it at all. The only thing I saw him dieing to is when I was to slow pulling him out of void zones that popped in melee range. Is this avoidance at work? Is there something special about the FG when a Flame wave hits that makes him not get wacked? The other locks in the guild had to pull there felhunters out or they would get insta gibbed. I only had to Fel Dom my FG back up twice and it was due to void zones that I was slow on the recall trigger.

While we are on this subject I saw some people talking about Saph above.. here is a trick I use to keep my FG alive on Saph. Leave the FG on Saph until after an ice block drops and you get behind it. Once you are behind an ice block hit the pet follow key and he will insta port right on top of you and stay out of the breath. Works flawless for me and was the first time I've been able to keep my pet alive for the whole fight on Saph. Something definitely happened in 3.0.8 because it is much easier to keep pets alive on fights where they used to get smacked. Could be the HP buff or maybe some subtle bug in avoidance they fixed.. but it is noticeable.

So I found one huge value of meta/ruin last night while doing 3D.. Meta the adds after you kill Tenebron. We started the night out doing pretty well in taking down Tenebron but struggled on the transition to adds and then to Shadron. Lock in the guild whispered me and said maybe I should pop meta during the adds to help us drop them faster (I had been saving it for when we hit heroism on Shadron for the burn) and it made a noticeable difference. I kept doing that for the rest of our attempts and we kept getting further. Got Shadron to 23% on our first night without some of our key DPS so I think we'll get that fight done next week.

 

Demonwarlock

I have been using Curse of Agony for a long time as Meta...just recently have I come to the thought of going back to doom. I guess I got in the habit of Agony from playing Affliction.

On that note, I do not believe that Agony helps proc the 2 set T 7/7.5 bonus. Stated below is the text from the items, it looks like it only procs off Corruption and Immolate periodic effects. I have not confirmed this though but it says this is the case.

(2) Set: Your Corruption and Immolate periodic effects have a chance to increase the critical strike chance of your next Shadow Bolt or Incinerate by 10%.

If you had room in your talents for Molten Core...I could see still using CoA for sure but otherwise it may be a toss up and better to use Doom.

EDIT: I did just read somewhere that it was procing off CoA and it might be a known bug. Interesting.

 

KharzaXo

Guys.. need some help working through something:

Under the assumption because of the above that CoA is larger DPS increase over CoD and has the added benefit of increased T7 2-piece and MC up time I started to run some numbers on the value of 2/2 CoA versus Demonic Empathy (and the value of Improved Demonic Tactics)

So one of the reasons I like WoW Meter Online over WWS is the ability to get uptime %'s and it is very useful in this analysis. So since we have the ISB talent and it procs on our SB crits and Demonic Embrace also gets applied to our pet for these same crits, we should be able to draw the conclusion that our personal Shadow Vulnerability (SV) up time would equal our pet's Demonic Embrace up time.

In this WoW Meter we can see that the up time of SV is 86% so that should equal the up time of DE on our pet. Same WoW Meter has my Felguard doing 1519 DPS so (1519 * .01) * .86 = 13.06 DPS per point in DE just from the pet (WWS below shows a 1550 Felguard so should be pretty accurate, although this up time I believe is on the high side).

Going to switch over to a WWS that was posted on CoA .. his Felguard only crit on his cleave 15% of the time so I can't imagine the personal up time of DE was that high (he only gained the buff 3 times over the course of a 2:43 fight). But I needed is CoA numbers to finish the calculation. His CoA did an average tick of 669 so 334.5 dps.. now is it correct to assume that 2/2 CoA would increase his DPS 33.4dps or 16.7 DPS per point? I figure 10% is 10% but didn't know if it was calculated different for CoA.

Demonic Embrace is 13.06 DPS per point from pet + whatever personal DPS we might gain
Improved CoA is 16.7 DPS per point

So I grabbed some personal DE up time off our Sarth 3D attempts and where I really do need 1 fight to analyze this whole thing (I'll get one to analyze). I was seeing personal DE up times around 31% with my Felguard doing 24% Cleave crits. If we figure our personal DPS is 3000 then (3000 * .01) * .31 = 9.3 DPS per point to add to the above.

So maybe what I did was prove to myself that DE does seem to be better than Improved CoA... what this really got me thinking about though was the value of Improved Demonic Tactics (10% of crit passed to demon). How much DPS does that translate to? I know that some of the other demon talents proc off the demon's crit so we would assume it is a no brainer, but how exactly does this scale with our crit? Is it based off the tooltip value? So it would get 30% of my 23% crit rating for 6.9% extra crit (2.3% per point). Is that 2.3% worth more than 16.7 dps per point of CoA now that we use that curse instead of CoD? Is this something I should be able to answer accurately using the spreadsheet?

 

Akj

Interesting line of thought Kharza but there are a few mistakes in your calculations which makes me doubt the worth of demonic empathy now.

WWS only shows not include proc refreshes in the buff gained list so the uptimes are a little higher than you assumed.
Wow Web Stats

Demonic Empathy procs off and affects spells & abilities only. On a fight like patchwerk, demonic empathy uptime is very high for the pet (as seen above) but the damage boost only applies to cleave. Cleave is around 20% of a felguard's damage so demonic empathy translates into 0.6% pet damage for 3 points. For my WWS above it works out to about 9 dps.

Now demonic empathy uptime for a lock is typically much lower. In the WWS above its uptime was around 33% making it a ~1% damage boost for 3 points or 43.68 dps.

Total gain from demonic empathy = 9 + 43.68 = 52.68 dps for 3 points or 17.56 dps per point.

Dps gain from improved CoA as you showed is around 16.7 dps per point which is slightly less than demonic empathy. However the dps gain from improved CoA is almost constant regardless of the fight whereas patchwerk is the best case scenario for demonic empathy.

So my hypothesis at the end of this analysis is that deep demo locks are probably better off moving the talents out of demonic empathy. Let me know if there are any mistakes in my numbers.

If the above is true then the next challenge is in finding the best way to spend those 3 talent points (molten core, cataclysm, Imp CoA, suppression..)

http://johngaltwow.net

 

Rozzenwyn

Lluelier's is showing Demonic Empathy as about 84 dps for me. Taking the points out of there and putting them into Molten Core instead shows 57 less DPS than demonic empathy. So only 31 dps for me. Taking the 3 points and putting them in Imp Corruption is only a 20 dps gain so 64 less dps than Demonic Empathy. Suppression is all of a 3 point dps increase over not spending those 3 talent points at all due to usually having a spriest or boomkin in the raid. Suppression is only 13 dps for the same reason. Imp CoA is only a 23 dps increase and still less than using CoD. Therefor it still is looking like DE is better than other alternatives, at least with the way I'm geared anyways.

 

KharzaXo

I just ran a quick simcraft (3:30 run time) of tweaking 2 points across talents.. need to do some more in depth analysis of the output but here is what it said:

6647 4.5% Warlock_55_0_16 (For Reference)

5386 3.7% Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_SP
5381 3.7% Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_FS
5377 3.7% Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_ImpTac
5358 3.7% Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_DE

SP = spellstone
FS = firestone

3rd one is taking 2 points out of Improved Demonic Tactics and putting them in CoA
4th one is taking 2 points out of Demonic Empathy and putting them in CoA

actions+=/curse_of_agony/demonic_empowerment/metamorphosis/corruption/immolate/shadow_bolt/life_tap

default_stamina=1029
default_intellect=874
default_spirit=727
default_spell_power=2500
default_crit_rating=317
default_hit_rating=323
default_haste_rating=474

I know simcraft doesn't quite model meta/ruin right, but figured it would account for talent point differences.

 

Trickykid

Citing simcraft with default number of iterations for differences in DPS of such a small margin is generally not a good idea. I'd bump it up to at least 5-digit iterations, and probably significantly more for a difference of less than 1%. In cases like this the spreadsheet will have a better formulaic way of showing differences rather than the distribution of DPS from random strings in the sim.

 

Migage

Hey guys, been reading through these forums for the past week or two. Great stuff. Thought I'd throw my spec out there to see what you all think. Just haven't seen it talked of here, 0/50/21. I've done a lot of my own theory-crafting and plenty of respecs, often with the smallest of tweaks here and there. I don't have the math, but you guys are free obviously to plug in the numbers.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The build is a utility build. A mixture of helping you, the raid and practicality out. Glyphs are GoCorr, GoFG, GoSB and I use Firestone (again, test dummies found for me anyway, a much higher dps for Firestone than for spellstone)

So working down the demon tree is pretty standard. Left out Fel Dom since at this stage (Heroics and 10-mans), the FG doesn't die that much, it's a point i'd rather spend somewhere else. Same with Sac; on fights where I know FG will die, I just grab out the imp for the raid buff. 2 points in Mana Feed for same % mana regen. The rest down to Dem Pact is pretty standard too. The two points in Imp DT is tailored to my gear lvl, and moreso, my crit lvl. If I have only 1pt there, it didn't proc Dem Pact often enough. Sure, if i had 3 points there, it'd proc very often, but I think that again, is a point wasted. If (and I say IF, i'm not gemming for it), my crit gets higher (this is personal crit btw, not raid buff crit), then I'll move those pts, one at a time, into something else (Healthstone, Sac or Dem Res). 1pt in Fel Syn is to give the healers/myself a little respite.

So over to the Desto tree. Pretty standard looking 21pt dest tree I'd say. Two in MC for mobs. Rotation for mobs is Corr on 2-3 targets, then RoF. MC triggers, if not straight away, then not far off. Also have Corr up for 2pT7 bonus and Glyph of Corr. I know people say that trash mobs don't count, and nor does AoE, but why not? It's part of our skill tree so why not make the most of it? So again, thats why I've specced the way I have in Dest, to make use of RoF on mobs, and then SB spam on single-targets. I'm just under soft-cap now for hit, but when I get above this, I'll remove, 1pt at a time, Cata, and move it into SBurn, Dest Reach and/or Intensity.

Rotation for bosses is Send pet -> Dem Emp -> Corr -> trinket -> CoD (for bosses lasting more than a minute obviously, othewise its CoA -> Corr -> trinket) -> SB X whatever.

Immo is wasted dpct in my experience, as was speccing demon-dest to conflag. More than likely this has changed with the GoConflag changes, but then you're missing out on many benefits and survivability of you and your pet by going deeper into demo.

This build does not go for personal glory, but is a strong build that others will benefit from. Even still, with my gear lvl atm and doing heroics and 10-mans (only down two quarters of Naxx), I'm at 2.3k+ single target, which still puts me quite high in the damage tables for our groups, and usually top with pugs. If in your guild you have one or two other locks, then having a utility lock like this is almost essential I reckon. All casters obviously benefit from Dem Pact, and global dps lvls rise as a result.

Again, this build works great for me and my playing style. I really really don't like playing affliction, I find it boring as anything. Going deep destro is great fun, and I do enjoy doing that, and luv the challenges and complexity of it. But for reliable and constant dps, I find this build works best. And hey, you still get to see those big yellow numbers pop up often

 

Akj

I'd take what leulier says about deep demo with a grain of salt since not a lot of analysis was done in this area. Your profile is broken so I'm not able to judge your gear level. Even if demonic empathy is assumed to be a static 1.5% dps boost (50% uptime) you'll need to be doing around 5600 personal dps to gain 84 dps.

http://johngaltwow.net

 

Krathis

While I agree that what the spreadsheet says isn't accurate you can't discount that Demonic Empathy buffs your pet's damage too.

Near 100% uptime on your pets damage isn't unrealistic in a raid environment and at 1000 dps that's 30 dps. At 1500 (another number that isn't unrealistic) that's 45 dps.

I don't find 84 to be an unbelievable number when you figure that the warlocks personal DE only needs to account for less then 54 of it.

*Edit* And disregard this, I got corrected later in the thread. Didn't realize the Demonic Empathy not only procs only off cleave but also only increases cleaves damage.

 

kylaran

Well, I'm not particularly worried about Patchwerk (since we bring him down under 3:00 now), but for fights lasting longer than 3 minutes (let's 4), would popping soulshatter early still mean that you will generate a massive amount of threat towards the end of the fight? Considering that it reduces current threat by 50%, if your current threat isn't even that high, just high during that initial part of the fight, won't you start climbing up relatively quickly for the rest of the fight?

I guess I should re-phrase my question. On fights in which you can pop two Metas, how much threat is generated by the warlock between the first and second Meta (which, I would assume, is popped during heroism/bloodlust)? Is it enough to bring you over the tanks once you enter execute range later in the fight?

I'm just wondering if anyone using Meta/Ruin has ever had this problem or if I'm just too worried about being close in melee range.

[Edit]I should mention that Patchwerk was a terrible example for what I wanted to say. Perhaps we can use Tenebron or Shadron for an example on 3D Sarth (since those are usually burned very quickly, and some of our casters generate a lot of threat). I would assume most guilds don't kill 3D Sarth in under 3 minutes (especially if a DPS or two dies), so blowing soulshatter early might hurt threat later. I typically start reaching 110% threat on Shadron close to about 20-30% of his health, and reach 110% threat on Tenebron even sooner than that, so resort to AoEing some mobs or bandage due to Twilight Torment. Note: 110% is my personal threat marker.

This brings up another question: Does anyone know the optimal TPS for tanks at the moment, and their own experiences with threat/TPS with Meta?

 

Akj

I guess you didnt read the bolded part in my previous post about Demonic empathy. The proc only affects spells & abilities or in other words just cleave for the felguard.

http://johngaltwow.net

 

Krathis

Yeah, didn't realize DE only increased cleave damage. Edited my post above.

 

Akj

Looked into Leulier's (v303k) and it gives the following values
Player uptime is calculated as
I dont really understand the formula fully but I think it takes it to proc off auto attacks and not just cleave leading to inaccurate uptimes.

http://johngaltwow.net

 

• Zakalwe

EDIT: Nevermind, I misread a tooltip.

 

KharzaXo

I agree with you.. here is the same one run at 100k iterations

Generating baseline... (iterations=100000, max_time=210, target_health=0)

default_stamina=1029
default_intellect=874
default_spirit=727
default_spell_power=1821
default_crit_rating=317
default_hit_rating=323
default_haste_rating=474

actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/spell_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,felguard
actions+=/curse_of_agony/demonic_empowerment/metamorphosis/corruption/immolate/shadow_bolt/life_tap
tier7_2pc=1
tier7_4pc=0
dying_curse=1
sundial_of_the_exiled=1
chaotic_skyflare=1
# Glyphs
glyph_immolate=1
glyph_felguard=1
glyph_curse_of_agony=1

6028 5.0% Warlock_55_0_16
5015 4.1% Warlock_0_53_18

4991 4.1% Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_SP (use spellstone)
4986 4.1% Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_ImpTac (2 points out of Improved Tactics into CoA)
4975 4.1% Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_FS (use firestone)
4973 4.1% Warlock_0_53_18_MC_ImpTac (2 point out of Improved Tactics into MC)
4964 4.1% Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_DE (2 points out of DE into CoA)
4952 4.1% Warlock_0_53_18_MC_DE (2 points out of DE into MC)
4937 4.1% Warlock_2_51_18 (2 points out of DE and Improved Tactics into MC and CoA)

Up-times

Warlock_2_51_18:
36.7% : demonic_soul
87.8% : molten_core
87.3% : shadow_vulnerability

Warlock_0_53_18_MC_DE:
68.6% : demonic_empathy
36.7% : demonic_soul
87.8% : molten_core
87.4% : shadow_vulnerability

Warlock_0_53_18_MC_ImpTac:
64.5% : demonic_empathy
36.7% : demonic_soul
87.7% : molten_core
87.4% : shadow_vulnerability

Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_DE:
68.6% : demonic_empathy
36.8% : demonic_soul
51.0% : molten_core
87.4% : shadow_vulnerability

Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_ImpTac:
64.5% : demonic_empathy
36.8% : demonic_soul
50.9% : molten_core
87.4% : shadow_vulnerability

Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_SP:
68.6% : demonic_empathy
36.7% : demonic_soul
51.0% : molten_core
87.4% : shadow_vulnerability

Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_FS:
69.6% : demonic_empathy
37.6% : demonic_soul
50.8% : molten_core
88.0% : shadow_vulnerability

Procs

Warlock_2_51_18:
dying_curse=3.8|52.7sec
judgement_of_wisdom=25.3|7.9sec
life_tap=5.1|39.5sec
sundial_of_the_exiled=3.4|58.9sec

Warlock_0_53_18_MC_DE:
dying_curse=3.8|52.6sec
judgement_of_wisdom=25.3|7.9sec
life_tap=5.1|39.5sec
sundial_of_the_exiled=3.4|59.0sec

Warlock_0_53_18_MC_ImpTac:
dying_curse=3.8|52.6sec
judgement_of_wisdom=25.3|7.9sec
life_tap=5.1|39.5sec
sundial_of_the_exiled=3.4|58.9sec

Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_DE:
dying_curse=3.8|52.7sec
judgement_of_wisdom=25.3|7.9sec
life_tap=5.1|39.5sec
sundial_of_the_exiled=3.4|59.0sec

Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_ImpTac:
dying_curse=3.8|52.6sec
judgement_of_wisdom=25.3|7.9sec
life_tap=5.1|39.5sec
sundial_of_the_exiled=3.4|59.0sec

Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_SP:
dying_curse=3.8|52.6sec
judgement_of_wisdom=25.3|7.9sec
life_tap=5.1|39.5sec
sundial_of_the_exiled=3.4|58.9sec

Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_FS:
dying_curse=3.8|52.8sec
judgement_of_wisdom=24.9|8.0sec
life_tap=5.0|39.9sec
sundial_of_the_exiled=3.4|59.2sec

Player=Warlock_0_53_18 DPS=5015.0 (Error=+/-0.9 Range=+/-653) DPR=16.8 RPS=299.1/197.5 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=59 agility=61 stamina=1339 intellect=1104 spirit=956 health=17642 mana=22826
Spell Stats: power=1821 hit=12.3% crit=15.2% penetration=0 haste=14.5% mp5=91
Attack Stats: power=49 hit=9.9% crit=10.1% expertise=0.0 penetration=0 haste=14.5%
Actions:
corruption Count= 11.8|17.6sec DPE=5557| 7% DPET=3911 DPR=10.3 Miss=1.7% Tick=1070
curse_of_doom Count= 4.3|55.2sec DPE=11435| 5% DPET=8036 DPR=19.7 Miss=1.7% Tick=16494
immolate Count= 13.1|15.4sec DPE=6677| 9% DPET=4982 DPR=10.5 Miss=0.0% Hit=1428 Crit=2978|4183|41.5% Tick=1045
shadow_bolt Count= 74.3| 2.6sec DPE=7597|56% DPET=3720 DPR=13.3 Miss=0.0% Hit=5027 Crit=10488|15626|47.1%
felguard
cleave Count= 32.7| 6.2sec DPE=1495| 5% DPET= 906 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1238 Crit=2476|2916|33.2% Glance= 929|24.0% Dodge=6.5%
felguard_melee Count=136.0| 1.5sec DPE=1359|18% DPET= 931 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1126 Crit=2252|2665|33.2% Glance= 844|24.0% Dodge=6.5%

Player=Warlock_0_53_18_MC_DE DPS=4952.3 (Error=+/-0.9 Range=+/-693) DPR=15.1 RPS=327.8/222.6 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=59 agility=61 stamina=1291 intellect=1104 spirit=956 health=17117 mana=22826
Spell Stats: power=1821 hit=12.3% crit=15.2% penetration=0 haste=14.5% mp5=91
Attack Stats: power=49 hit=9.9% crit=10.1% expertise=0.0 penetration=0 haste=14.5%
Actions:
corruption Count= 11.9|17.6sec DPE=5510| 7% DPET=3930 DPR=10.2 Miss=1.7% Tick=1068
curse_of_agony Count= 7.6|26.5sec DPE=7748| 6% DPET=5462 DPR=20.1 Miss=1.7% Tick=614
immolate Count= 13.1|15.2sec DPE=7909|11% DPET=5985 DPR=12.0 Miss=1.7% Hit=1366 Crit=2853|4019|39.9% Tick=1362
shadow_bolt Count= 72.2| 2.7sec DPE=7311|53% DPET=3619 DPR=11.1 Miss=1.7% Hit=4909 Crit=10238|15162|46.6%
felguard
cleave Count= 32.7| 6.1sec DPE=1462| 5% DPET= 886 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1215 Crit=2430|2859|32.8% Glance= 911|24.0% Dodge=6.5%
felguard_melee Count=136.1| 1.5sec DPE=1354|19% DPET= 928 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1125 Crit=2250|2664|32.9% Glance= 844|24.0% Dodge=6.5%

Player=Warlock_0_53_18_MC_ImpTac DPS=4973.2 (Error=+/-1.0 Range=+/-640) DPR=15.2 RPS=327.8/222.7 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=59 agility=61 stamina=1291 intellect=1104 spirit=956 health=17117 mana=22826
Spell Stats: power=1821 hit=12.3% crit=15.2% penetration=0 haste=14.5% mp5=91
Attack Stats: power=49 hit=9.9% crit=10.1% expertise=0.0 penetration=0 haste=14.5%
Actions:
corruption Count= 11.9|17.6sec DPE=5557| 7% DPET=3963 DPR=10.3 Miss=1.7% Tick=1077
curse_of_agony Count= 7.6|26.5sec DPE=7802| 6% DPET=5501 DPR=20.2 Miss=1.7% Tick=618
immolate Count= 13.1|15.2sec DPE=8006|11% DPET=6059 DPR=12.2 Miss=1.7% Hit=1383 Crit=2889|4098|39.9% Tick=1379
shadow_bolt Count= 72.2| 2.7sec DPE=7410|54% DPET=3668 DPR=11.3 Miss=1.7% Hit=4977 Crit=10377|15463|46.6%
felguard
cleave Count= 32.7| 6.1sec DPE=1450| 5% DPET= 879 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1237 Crit=2475|2915|29.6% Glance= 928|24.0% Dodge=6.5%
felguard_melee Count=136.1| 1.5sec DPE=1319|18% DPET= 904 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1125 Crit=2251|2664|29.7% Glance= 844|24.0% Dodge=6.5%

Player=Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_FS DPS=4974.8 (Error=+/-1.0 Range=+/-649) DPR=15.4 RPS=322.6/221.3 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=59 agility=61 stamina=1291 intellect=1104 spirit=956 health=17117 mana=22826
Spell Stats: power=1821 hit=12.3% crit=15.2% penetration=0 haste=14.5% mp5=91
Attack Stats: power=49 hit=9.9% crit=10.1% expertise=0.0 penetration=0 haste=14.5%
Actions:
corruption Count= 11.9|17.7sec DPE=5480| 7% DPET=3856 DPR=10.1 Miss=1.7% Tick=1067
curse_of_agony Count= 7.6|26.6sec DPE=7737| 6% DPET=5375 DPR=20.0 Miss=1.7% Tick=613
immolate Count= 13.4|15.1sec DPE=7642|10% DPET=5702 DPR=11.6 Miss=1.7% Hit=1348 Crit=2814|4139|41.1% Tick=1315
shadow_bolt Count= 70.4| 2.7sec DPE=7570|54% DPET=3677 DPR=11.5 Miss=1.7% Hit=5032 Crit=10494|15617|48.0%
felguard
cleave Count= 32.7| 6.1sec DPE=1494| 5% DPET= 906 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1237 Crit=2474|2915|33.3% Glance= 928|24.0% Dodge=6.5%
felguard_melee Count=136.1| 1.5sec DPE=1359|19% DPET= 931 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1125 Crit=2250|2664|33.3% Glance= 844|24.0% Dodge=6.5%

Player=Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_SP DPS=4991.2 (Error=+/-1.0 Range=+/-671) DPR=15.2 RPS=327.8/222.7 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=59 agility=61 stamina=1291 intellect=1104 spirit=956 health=17117 mana=22826
Spell Stats: power=1821 hit=12.3% crit=15.2% penetration=0 haste=14.5% mp5=91
Attack Stats: power=49 hit=9.9% crit=10.1% expertise=0.0 penetration=0 haste=14.5%
Actions:
corruption Count= 11.9|17.6sec DPE=5564| 7% DPET=3968 DPR=10.3 Miss=1.7% Tick=1078
curse_of_agony Count= 7.6|26.5sec DPE=7812| 6% DPET=5508 DPR=20.2 Miss=1.7% Tick=619
immolate Count= 13.1|15.2sec DPE=7745|10% DPET=5861 DPR=11.8 Miss=1.7% Hit=1338 Crit=2795|4098|39.8% Tick=1334
shadow_bolt Count= 72.2| 2.7sec DPE=7420|54% DPET=3673 DPR=11.3 Miss=1.7% Hit=4983 Crit=10391|15463|46.6%
felguard
cleave Count= 32.7| 6.1sec DPE=1490| 5% DPET= 903 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1237 Crit=2475|2915|32.9% Glance= 928|24.0% Dodge=6.5%
felguard_melee Count=136.1| 1.5sec DPE=1354|19% DPET= 928 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1125 Crit=2250|2664|32.9% Glance= 844|24.0% Dodge=6.5%

Player=Warlock_2_13_56 DPS=5340.3 (Error=+/-1.0 Range=+/-650) DPR=17.9 RPS=298.4/199.2 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=59 agility=61 stamina=1315 intellect=1104 spirit=956 health=17380 mana=22826
Spell Stats: power=1821 hit=12.3% crit=15.2% penetration=0 haste=14.5% mp5=91
Attack Stats: power=49 hit=9.9% crit=10.1% expertise=0.0 penetration=0 haste=14.5%
Actions:
chaos_bolt Count= 12.4|16.2sec DPE=9098|11% DPET=6406 DPR=34.7 Miss=0.0% Hit=6043 Crit=12622|16198|46.4%
conflagrate Count= 17.7|11.5sec DPE=4743| 8% DPET=3343 DPR=10.5 Miss=0.0% Hit=3019 Crit=6356|8066|51.7%
curse_of_agony Count= 7.6|26.7sec DPE=7369| 5% DPET=5119 DPR=19.1 Miss=1.7% Tick=587
immolate Count= 12.9|15.7sec DPE=8284|10% DPET=6024 DPR=13.0 Miss=0.0% Hit=2135 Crit=4485|5779|42.9% Tick=1162
incinerate Count= 66.1| 2.9sec DPE=7470|46% DPET=4414 DPR=14.2 Miss=0.0% Hit=4836 Crit=10094|13403|50.1%
soul_fire Count= 7.5| 4.5sec DPE=10865| 8% DPET=5749 DPR=32.2 Miss=0.0% Hit=7074 Crit=14782|19254|49.2%
imp
fire_bolt Count=104.4| 1.9sec DPE=1254|12% DPET= 660 DPR= 1.$ Miss=1.7% Hit=1146 Crit=1719|2031|22.2%

Player=Warlock_2_51_18 DPS=4937.2 (Error=+/-0.9 Range=+/-612) DPR=15.1 RPS=327.8/222.7 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=59 agility=61 stamina=1291 intellect=1104 spirit=956 health=17117 mana=22826
Spell Stats: power=1821 hit=12.3% crit=15.2% penetration=0 haste=14.5% mp5=91
Attack Stats: power=49 hit=9.9% crit=10.1% expertise=0.0 penetration=0 haste=14.5%
Actions:
corruption Count= 11.9|17.6sec DPE=5485| 7% DPET=3912 DPR=10.1 Miss=1.7% Tick=1064
curse_of_agony Count= 7.6|26.5sec DPE=8485| 7% DPET=5982 DPR=22.0 Miss=1.7% Tick=672
immolate Count= 13.1|15.2sec DPE=7858|10% DPET=5947 DPR=12.0 Miss=1.7% Hit=1357 Crit=2834|3979|40.0% Tick=1353
shadow_bolt Count= 72.2| 2.7sec DPE=7254|53% DPET=3591 DPR=11.0 Miss=1.7% Hit=4872 Crit=10162|15012|46.6%
felguard
cleave Count= 32.7| 6.2sec DPE=1429| 5% DPET= 866 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1204 Crit=2408|2830|31.2% Glance= 903|24.0% Dodge=6.5%
felguard_melee Count=136.1| 1.5sec DPE=1336|18% DPET= 916 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1125 Crit=2250|2664|31.3% Glance= 844|24.0% Dodge=6.5%

Player=Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_DE DPS=4964.5 (Error=+/-0.9 Range=+/-597) DPR=15.1 RPS=327.8/222.6 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=59 agility=61 stamina=1291 intellect=1104 spirit=956 health=17117 mana=22826
Spell Stats: power=1821 hit=12.3% crit=15.2% penetration=0 haste=14.5% mp5=91
Attack Stats: power=49 hit=9.9% crit=10.1% expertise=0.0 penetration=0 haste=14.5%
Actions:
corruption Count= 11.9|17.6sec DPE=5513| 7% DPET=3931 DPR=10.2 Miss=1.7% Tick=1068
curse_of_agony Count= 7.6|26.5sec DPE=8520| 7% DPET=6007 DPR=22.1 Miss=1.7% Tick=675
immolate Count= 13.1|15.2sec DPE=7641|10% DPET=5782 DPR=11.6 Miss=1.7% Hit=1320 Crit=2757|4019|39.9% Tick=1316
shadow_bolt Count= 72.2| 2.7sec DPE=7311|53% DPET=3619 DPR=11.1 Miss=1.7% Hit=4910 Crit=10238|15162|46.6%
felguard
cleave Count= 32.7| 6.1sec DPE=1462| 5% DPET= 886 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1215 Crit=2430|2859|32.9% Glance= 911|24.0% Dodge=6.5%
felguard_melee Count=136.1| 1.5sec DPE=1354|19% DPET= 928 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1125 Crit=2251|2664|32.9% Glance= 844|24.0% Dodge=6.5%

Player=Warlock_2_53_16_CoA_ImpTac DPS=4985.6 (Error=+/-1.0 Range=+/-655) DPR=15.2 RPS=327.8/222.7 (mana)
Core Stats: strength=59 agility=61 stamina=1291 intellect=1104 spirit=956 health=17117 mana=22826
Spell Stats: power=1821 hit=12.3% crit=15.2% penetration=0 haste=14.5% mp5=91
Attack Stats: power=49 hit=9.9% crit=10.1% expertise=0.0 penetration=0 haste=14.5%
Actions:
corruption Count= 11.9|17.6sec DPE=5556| 7% DPET=3963 DPR=10.3 Miss=1.7% Tick=1077
curse_of_agony Count= 7.6|26.6sec DPE=8591| 7% DPET=6057 DPR=22.2 Miss=1.7% Tick=680
immolate Count= 13.1|15.2sec DPE=7735|10% DPET=5854 DPR=11.8 Miss=1.7% Hit=1336 Crit=2791|4098|39.9% Tick=1332
shadow_bolt Count= 72.2| 2.7sec DPE=7411|54% DPET=3668 DPR=11.3 Miss=1.7% Hit=4977 Crit=10378|15463|46.6%
felguard
cleave Count= 32.7| 6.1sec DPE=1450| 5% DPET= 879 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1238 Crit=2475|2915|29.7% Glance= 928|24.0% Dodge=6.5%
felguard_melee Count=136.1| 1.5sec DPE=1319|18% DPET= 904 DPR= 1.$ Miss=0.0% Hit=1125 Crit=2251|2664|29.7% Glance= 844|24.0% Dodge=6.5%


Here is where I think we have problems being able to simulate these specs well.. It is my understanding we have no way to include immolation aura here and that will not give us the true indication of how MC would increase the damage. Another question I have is does simcraft model the melee buffs our felguard would be getting around crit? I'm assuming it does but don't know the answer to that. Just looking at the results if it is true that DE only procs on cleave hits.. those DE up-times seem way to high. I also wonder how it calculates the up-time (if it does) for our pets when we crit. We should be able to extrapolate this out from the shadow vulnerability up-time though.

Again most of this is to just establish a baseline and start to ask these questions. I think both simcraft and the spreadsheet aren't totally accurate for meta/ruin analysis because to date it hasn't been very competitive. All the focus and attention was spent on afflication and destro builds because the initial runs showed meta/ruin so far behind and it has been for so long.

It is also interesting that this spec seems to come out on top of any of the ones we have been discussing.

#
# Demonology Warlock
#
warlock=Warlock_0_53_18
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZcxIzsxoqcsguhoE0hV
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,felguard
actions+=/curse_of_doom/demonic_empowerment/metamorphosis/corruption/immolate/shadow_bolt/life_tap
tier7_2pc=1
tier7_4pc=0
dying_curse=1
sundial_of_the_exiled=1
chaotic_skyflare=1
# Glyphs
glyph_corruption=1
glyph_felguard=1
glyph_shadow_bolt=1

Also very interesting to note.. Where is my Demonic Pact up-time? Does it not have Demonic Pact?

Warlock_0_55_16_Baseline_SP:
68.6% : demonic_empathy
36.7% : demonic_soul
51.0% : molten_core
87.4% : shadow_vulnerability

 

Erushnak

Zog zog guys ! According to what I read in the forum, I thought of this demono build:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

cycle: CoA, corrup, immo, spam SB, etc.
glyphes: CoA, immo, GG
something to change ? advices ?

It seems (I'm not sure. Right or wrong ? I didn't found any clue for that) that SB scales better than Incinerate that the raison why I take 5/5 ISB and as my immo-dot is a big damaging source I take MC 2/3. The proc seems good. Actually, this build seems to offer the maximize damage of shadow and fire spells used.

What do you think of that ?
Am i absolutly wrong ? In that case, a simple Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft would be better ? Or Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft ? spamm inci or SB...?

 

Rozzenwyn

That's cause I forgot to change my profile to my new realm. It's updated now.

 

Ghazkul

First time post, long time reader etc. etc.

I've searched through the forums and couldn't find an answer or anything related what I have experiencing as a demo build with Demonic Pact. When my Felguard has the Divine Spirit buff from a priest, he doesn't seem to proc Demonic Pact whenever he crits which is plain odd Did I miss something? Is this working as intended? Any clear answer to this would be appreciated

EDIT: DP procs fine on target dummies and anything outside of an instance, in any instance the FG will not proc DP whenever it crits.

 

Chinsaw

Here are my WWS reports from last night. I used the Shadow bolt Glyph instead of immolate. I have been having problems with to much life tapping.

Wow Web Stats

Would the Immolate Glyph be better?

Rotation COD, corruption, immolate, Spam SB.

Does anyone use the doomguard outside of auto attack? If so how do you do it?

 

Bessa

Is Doomguard better than Felguard for met/ruin spec? or should we be sticking to FG for the buffs?

 

• Zakalwe

The Felguard is much better than the DG, not just because you miss out on the MD buff, but because the Felguard itself does significantly more DPS than the DG.

The WWS linked to by Chinsaw is bugged - it's counting two DGs as belonging to Odolocks, when one of them in reality was summoned by the other lock. A proper chart would have showed Odolocks at #8 or so, and Liraclaytor at #2.

 

Akj

Looks like the other lock in the raid also used a doomguard and its damage got attributed to you.
http://wowwebstats.com/1a2j1uyf5ccro...e5300c510#inst

Deep demo locks should not use a doomguard under normal circumstances. The felguard does more damage, gives 5% dmg to the lock from MD & around 250+ spell power from DK. If there were a fight where a doomguard would live and the felguard would not then demo sac + doomguard would be an option.

http://johngaltwow.net

 

Chinsaw

Well Darn here I thought I did so well. Thanks for Bursting my Bubble. I just wont tell the Affliction lock that. LOL Thanks for the input.

Now what about the Glyphs? Is SB glyph better to use then Immolate Glyph? 10% less mana or 20% more Damage?

I have been having to tap quite a bit.