Well since you should be refreshing all Dots during Meta anyway, the trick would be to do it at the end of Meta so you can re-up dots and then cast Drain Soul at the last second. Interesting idea, I didn't know Drain Soul would stay boosted even after Meta ended.
So the rotation might be to wait until CoDoom is 3 seconds from expiring, hit Meta/trinket/charge, refresh Immo/Corr and then CoDoom then SB. Near the end of Meta, refresh Immo/Corr then SB until the last second, then hit Drain Soul?
Meta is becoming the most complex spec to play in 3.1 by the looks of things!
it's more so relavant for how you'd play meta ruin at this point, since in 3.1 you wouldn't want to sacrifice your decimate procs. I did just test it to make sure this is how drain soul at the end of meta would work- and it does work like this.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
In 3.1 I'm not talking about hitting it at below 35%, that would be when we use Decimate certainly. For the times when Meta is being used outside of Decimate range, this new rotation might be the best DPS. Now that we can both reduce the Meta cooldown so much and increase the duration 6 seconds, there will be times when we are using Meta more than once in a fight. In Ulduar, especially for progression, I'm thinking we'll be using Meta 2 or maybe 3 times on boss fights, and only the last one will be in the Decimate zone.
EDIT: Um... /facepalm. Yeah without DS Execute this doesn't make sense. Oh well at least it simplifies the decision. I'm going to have enough fun trying to do Soulfire weaving with decimate.
In 3.1 I'm not talking about hitting it at below 35%, that would be when we use Decimate certainly. For the times when Meta is being used outside of Decimate range, this new rotation might be the best DPS. Now that we can both reduce the Meta cooldown so much and increase the duration 6 seconds, there will be times when we are using Meta more than once in a fight. In Ulduar, especially for progression, I'm thinking we'll be using Meta 2 or maybe 3 times on boss fights, and only the last one will be in the Decimate zone.
Drain Soul doesn't do 4x damage before 25%, let alone 35%. It's definitely not be worth casting at any earlier point.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
So I guess I better rephase what I was asking. I feel that glyphs for Meta this time around with 3.1 give us some interesting choices. I think the obvious two for the highest dps increase are the Felguard and Metamorphisis. My question is of the remaining glyphs has anyone done any tests as to what should be the final choice and is there a better dps increase then using Felguard and Meta?
I'd try and test this myself but I dont have the theorycraft everyone uses.
EDIT-Sorry for posting in the wrong place. I appreciate your help
So I guess I better rephase what I was asking. I feel that glyphs for Meta this time around with 3.1 give us some interesting choices. I think the obvious two for the highest dps increase are the Felguard and Metamorphisis. My question is of the remaining glyphs has anyone done any tests as to what should be the final choice and is there a better dps increase then using Felguard and Meta?
I'd try and test this myself but I dont have the theorycraft everyone uses.
One of my raid's warlocks was struggling as affliction and respec'd to Meta/Ruin to have a simpler rotation (at least until 3.1), and buff the raid as well since we run without an elemental shaman. We're still trying to set a DPS benchmark for her, as while we have a couple people who play Demo locks, both of them are Felguard/Emberstorm and aren't quite sure what sort of DPS to expect.
She's standard 56/15, and runs:
-1839 spell power.
-24.38 crit
-371 haste
-Dying Curse/Dragon Soul as trinkets, and 4-piece T7.
Question is, what sort of DPS output should we be expecting from her on fights where the Felguard isn't likely to get gibbed? Pet control is a question of its own, of course, but assuming she masters that we don't really have a frame of reference for that spec's general performance. If anyone could estimate lower/upper bounds that'd be pretty cool.
"Aggro" (n): in the Ancient Lordaeranian, a battle cry roughly translating to "Victory and death!"
One of my raid's warlocks was struggling as affliction and respec'd to Meta/Ruin to have a simpler rotation (at least until 3.1), and buff the raid as well since we run without an elemental shaman. We're still trying to set a DPS benchmark for her, as while we have a couple people who play Demo locks, both of them are Felguard/Emberstorm and aren't quite sure what sort of DPS to expect.
She's standard 56/15, and runs:
-1839 spell power.
-24.38 crit
-371 haste
-Dying Curse/Dragon Soul as trinkets, and 4-piece T7.
Question is, what sort of DPS output should we be expecting from her on fights where the Felguard isn't likely to get gibbed? Pet control is a question of its own, of course, but assuming she masters that we don't really have a frame of reference for that spec's general performance. If anyone could estimate lower/upper bounds that'd be pretty cool.
The issue with this question is that Meta/Ruin gains substantial power by having an overall better raid and higher raid DPS. Because meta is such a nice boost to damage, the higher the uptime, the larger overall numbers you're going to see from the warlock. Your best bet would be to use simulationcraft to simulate damage based on fight times you show from past parses with this player's gear as the starting point.
ok i read thru..an i think i got this in the right place. currently i am a demo lock. an i raid demo. when wow first came out..i was demo loved it..an raided the world dragons as demo. did great then bc came out an had to respec to affliction to hold my head above water..then wotlk came out..an i went bk to demo. i love it an have metamorph as well.
the thing is..i ws sittin in the top 5 with no problem..then i took the points out of imp void. an put them in cataclym. an we got a hybrid lock an a affliction lock that now are spankin me on damage. i have a higher hit than both. but im not sure what is goin on. i love demo so i want to stay demo. but i need to put the damage out.
if anyone could please give me a suggestion on what im doin wrong..plz let me know.
my spell rotation is
coa/corrup/immol/ then i use incinerate and or shadow bolts
i do better for some reason with incinerate than shadowbolt on my damage. i dont know why.
i just love my guild an i want to give the the best damage possiable an help dps the bosses down faster
ok i read thru..an i think i got this in the right place. currently i am a demo lock. an i raid demo. when wow first came out..i was demo loved it..an raided the world dragons as demo. did great then bc came out an had to respec to affliction to hold my head above water..then wotlk came out..an i went bk to demo. i love it an have metamorph as well.
the thing is..i ws sittin in the top 5 with no problem..then i took the points out of imp void. an put them in cataclym. an we got a hybrid lock an a affliction lock that now are spankin me on damage. i have a higher hit than both. but im not sure what is goin on. i love demo so i want to stay demo. but i need to put the damage out.
if anyone could please give me a suggestion on what im doin wrong..plz let me know.
my spell rotation is
coa/corrup/immol/ then i use incinerate and or shadow bolts
i do better for some reason with incinerate than shadowbolt on my damage. i dont know why.
i just love my guild an i want to give the the best damage possiable an help dps the bosses down faster
any advice is welcome
Mistrssdixie - I see several issues with your talent build, you have far and away enough hit if you have a shadow priest or boomkin in your raid to drop Cataclysm. (You only need 368 hit to be capped with a Shadow Priest or Boomkin around) Try this build:
Below is some info from another post I made awhile back, It should help with any other concerns you have.
You will want to use Shadowbolt and NOT incinerate as a Meta warlock.
There may be some other choices that come close to the Glyph of Corruption but that is up for personal preference I suppose.
Rotation:
The only rotation you need is to keep up Immolate, Corruption, and Curse of Doom/Agony at all times. It does not matter so much the order you apply these as long as they are all up. Shadowbolt spam when you are not refreshing these spells.
I typically will pop Metamorphosis when there is a Bloodlust if the fight is not going to last long enough to squeeze 2 in. Luckily on many fights Bloodlust can be used at the beginning allowing you to possibly get in 1 lusted Meta and another to finish off the fight.
Depending on the length of the fight and how I typically do on Mana consumption for the fight I will use a Potion of Speed or a Potion of Wild Magic during the Bloodlusted Meta time. If mana is an issue and I don't want to strain the healers any more than needed I will just pop a Runic Mana Potion sometime during the fight.
If the fight allows you want to position yourself close enough to use Meta and activate Immolation Aura without burning a global cool down to charge in.
If you do need to stay back you can either put your Demonic Circle where you intend to return to after Immolation Aura has expired OR charge in and move back out when you need to refresh your instant cast DOTS and/or Lifetap.
Patchwerk is a good example of a fight where you can just move in close at the start while casting Corruption and your Curse and just stay there the whole fight in close enough range to use Immolation Aura.
At any rate there is a decent rundown for basic Meta raiding, I'm sure I have left many things out and perhaps could even improve some of my thoughts. Good Luck!
Mistrssdixie - I see several issues with your talent build, you have far and away enough hit if you have a shadow priest or boomkin in your raid to drop Cataclysm. (You only need 368 hit to be capped with a Shadow Priest or Boomkin around) Try this build:
Below is some info from another post I made awhile back, It should help with any other concerns you have.
You will want to use Shadowbolt and NOT incinerate as a Meta warlock.
There may be some other choices that come close to the Glyph of Corruption but that is up for personal preference I suppose.
Rotation:
The only rotation you need is to keep up Immolate, Corruption, and Curse of Doom/Agony at all times. It does not matter so much the order you apply these as long as they are all up. Shadowbolt spam when you are not refreshing these spells.
Hi,
Im new to playing a lock and was curious why you would want to use shadowbolt over incinerate as demo spec, and would the new Glyph of Incinerate and Molten Core being moved to the Demonology tree make it worthwhile to use incinerate?
Hi,
Im new to playing a lock and was curious why you would want to use shadowbolt over incinerate as demo spec, and would the new Glyph of Incinerate and Molten Core being moved to the Demonology tree make it worthwhile to use incinerate?
It really depends on which kind of demo you are. If you are going Meta, then you will be using shadow bolt, if you are going to emberstorm then you are going incinerate. The talents to make fire good are beyond the reach of a meta warlock.
Question is, what sort of DPS output should we be expecting from her on fights where the Felguard isn't likely to get gibbed?
Pretty hard to answer overall since fights vary so much and you didn't say if she was in a 25 player raid. But taking Patchwerk as a reference she should be 5k+. Whilst it isn't the highest DPS spec for sure, the benefit to the raid of demonic pact with no ele shaman is clear, however if she ain't breaking 5k on PW/Raz then she is doing something wrong.
With the advent of patch 3.1 there will be a content update based on the revised talents, spells, rotations, builds, enchants, gear etc. Currently this content is in the Theorycraft Think Tank review process. As soon as the article has gone through that process I'll look to bringing the content here up to date.
With the advent of patch 3.1 there will be a content update based on the revised talents, spells, rotations, builds, enchants, gear etc. Currently this content is in the Theorycraft Think Tank review process. As soon as the article has gone through that process I'll look to bringing the content here up to date.
You are forgetting 3/52/16 spec. I personally spec it 3/52/16 because life tapping every 20 secs makes Cataclysm redundant. This build relies on an Elemental Shaman bringing Totem of Wrath to the raid.
You are forgetting 3/52/16 spec. I personally spec it 3/52/16 because life tapping every 20 secs makes Cataclysm redundant. This build relies on an Elemental Shaman bringing Totem of Wrath to the raid.
I'm not, I'm assuming that we're all at either 341 or 368 hit rating. If you haven't managed to soft hit cap by now then you really need to consider your gearing. At Heroic Naxx gearing a demonic pact warlock will provide a greater +damage buff across the raid than a shaman using the spell power totem.
In your 0/55/15 + 1 build, you do not have any points in Molten Core.
I see no reason why you wouldn't put that +1 into MC. There are many 0/56/15 builds that will swear by it--including the variation on the Raiding Compendium thread...
Also 3/52/16 is a very solid build--especially if you do not want to be a firelock (0/41/30). It's listed in all of the Simulationcraft tests. You'd be doing the Demonology population a big favor if you added that to your summary also.
So, reading that a thought came to mind. I'm currently the only regular raiding Warlock in my guild. (Couple others will be back soon but for now... ) I've been raiding the cookie cutter 41/30 build. I'm thinking if I pull 3 points out of Cataclysm (losing 12% mana savings) plus 1 point out of shadowburn and 1 pt out of Aftermath I can put 5 points in ISB. By doing this I could throw a Shadowbolt giving the entire raid a 5% crit improvement and the cost is only 3% Immolate periodic damage and mana cost reduction. 5% raid crit seems like an overall improvement.
With the advent of patch 3.1 there will be a content update based on the revised talents, spells, rotations, builds, enchants, gear etc. Currently this content is in the Theorycraft Think Tank review process. As soon as the article has gone through that process I'll look to bringing the content here up to date.
So I just repseced meta ruin for the first time ever, and I am impressed with the dps its pushing. I just had a few questions since this is really the first time I have ever considered running it due to our ele shaman going enhance. First off why not max out molten core and use incinerate over shadowbolt and take the points out of imp shadowbolt? I would def think that would be what would be best but I guess I am wrong. Also is using Curse of Doom used the entire fight of do u use corruption and only COD when you have metamorphasis popped?
Without emberstom, incinerate is the same speed as a shadow bolt, but, has a lower spell coefficient. Not to mention SB's add another 5% crit that mages dont have to worry about. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but, CoD every CD, except for when the boss wont live that long. Then use CoA.
Ok, few things. I'm taking the builds from the simulation craft thread as those builds change I will be updating the demonology thread builds. I've put in the Meta build that doesn't take Demonic pact. There is a full article on post 3.1 going through the TTT review process to replace the OP. Once that has happened there will be a new OP that should reflect the discussions that happened through the PTR and into the released patch.
I wonder if the Voidwalker tank build should just be removed, since they nerfed his hit points severely?
edit: Nerfed his bonus hit points that he receives from the warlock...
04/02/09, 10:39 AM
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