Fongs, you were actually throwing a few SBs that didn't need to be thrown in that vid. Since Soulfire refreshes Decimation itself, even after re-applying dots, you could have still continued on with Soulfire spam.
Still, the buff looks absolutely disgusting... so much, in fact, that I'd be surprised if it goes live in its current state.
Fongs, you were actually throwing a few SBs that didn't need to be thrown in that vid. Since Soulfire refreshes Decimation itself, even after re-applying dots, you could have still continued on with Soulfire spam.
Still, the buff looks absolutely disgusting... so much, in fact, that I'd be surprised if it goes live in its current state.
I'm rather certain those shadow bolts were thrown to keep the 5% crit debuff up!
he is using immolate and corruption too, on target that is below 35%. I don't know yet what is DPET of this two spells but I think it is lower than soul fire under the effect of decimation, and maybe corruption is not worth wasted GC for the increased chance on Molten Core, it was not worth it when MC was in destruction tree.
Any way because he is using CoE, purpose of corruption in this test is obvious.
wondering if someone could help me with some theorycrafting. I'm trying to figure out SoF or EotbM. I'm a bit lackluster on crit but SoF is so helpful because of its on use ability. I myself was thinking scale for anub(H) and EotbM for more dp uptime. But haven't really been up to come up with any sort of basis to test this on.
edit: SoF = Scale of Fates ; EotbM = Eye of the brood mother.
I'm rather certain those shadow bolts were thrown to keep the 5% crit debuff up!
Yeah, that was the purpose of those SB's. I'm not sure if it's required either, I don't really know the proper rotation for decimation but I gave it my best to do the most DPS. If anyone could give me a different rotation, I'll try it out and post a new video with the results!
Yeah, that was the purpose of those SB's. I'm not sure if it's required either, I don't really know the proper rotation for decimation but I gave it my best to do the most DPS. If anyone could give me a different rotation, I'll try it out and post a new video with the results!
Me and another lock in the guild went on the ptr last night, we both had the same specs and used no cooldowns or any other special abilities. He used full dots and SF-spam, I just used pure SF-spam and I came out on top of the dps meters by a little bit. It was so little though so I expect dots to be used whenever movement is involved.
So, as a Demo lock, we want to just spam Soulfire, under 35% while Decimation is up? While remembering to refresh dots, of course. But I don't need to be using Incinerate under 35% to get the Decimation buff up?
So, as a Demo lock, we want to just spam Soulfire, under 35% while Decimation is up? While remembering to refresh dots, of course. But I don't need to be using Incinerate under 35% to get the Decimation buff up?
So, as a Demo lock, we want to just spam Soulfire, under 35% while Decimation is up? While remembering to refresh dots, of course. But I don't need to be using Incinerate under 35% to get the Decimation buff up?
Sorry, noob Demo lock
You shouldn't be using incinerate either. Shadowbolt is a better filler for demo.
The World of Warcraft Armory is the spec I am using, and with the glyphs added, so I wasn't under the impression to use Shadowbolt. I'm open to any changes, I've only ever played Destro and Affliction so I'm not too sure what to do with Demo
Been using EJ as a place to start for all my lock information after leaving spriest behind. Been having a lot of fun with all the pretty numbers destro puts out, but I'm really excited for the increase in personal DPS viability of demo. It's always been one of my favorite specs, and with the addition of Meta it makes it even more fun.
Been on PTR running some instances and raids and the like, and even with mostly full raid buffs and replen I've found my FG going oom quite often and rather quickly. I've just been resummoning mid fight during lulls to negate this, but I'm wondering if it would be prudent to throw one point into mana feed to prevent this.
Also, been playing with spec. While the cookie cutter may perform great in a patchy type situation, in Ulduar and ToC I've found that it's a large dps loss to not have pushback protection in any spec. Due to the situational use of Meta, I'm wondering how terrible it would be to drop the points there and smatter them into hit and pushback protection in the aff and destro trees respectively. I really haven't found meta that useful on CD as a lot of the time the fight requires movement and a lot of the buff gets wasted lifetapping and refreshing dots. I'm gonna play around with it some more, but I'm really curious to see what you all think of that. Also really curious to see the effictiveness of molten core uptime and dots during execute.
One last thing.....I'm really curious in thoughts on black magic (though I know it is a raid DPS loss) as well as how much haste we need before we can switch to firestone and get the juicy 1% to DD spells.....which my recount is showing as about 60-70% of our total damage.
Sorry for the long winded post. Hope this gets some ideas sparked.
Been using EJ as a place to start for all my lock information after leaving spriest behind. Been having a lot of fun with all the pretty numbers destro puts out, but I'm really excited for the increase in personal DPS viability of demo. It's always been one of my favorite specs, and with the addition of Meta it makes it even more fun.
Been on PTR running some instances and raids and the like, and even with mostly full raid buffs and replen I've found my FG going oom quite often and rather quickly. I've just been resummoning mid fight during lulls to negate this, but I'm wondering if it would be prudent to throw one point into mana feed to prevent this.
Also, been playing with spec. While the cookie cutter may perform great in a patchy type situation, in Ulduar and ToC I've found that it's a large dps loss to not have pushback protection in any spec. Due to the situational use of Meta, I'm wondering how terrible it would be to drop the points there and smatter them into hit and pushback protection in the aff and destro trees respectively. I really haven't found meta that useful on CD as a lot of the time the fight requires movement and a lot of the buff gets wasted lifetapping and refreshing dots. I'm gonna play around with it some more, but I'm really curious to see what you all think of that. Also really curious to see the effictiveness of molten core uptime and dots during execute..
I always put one point in mana feed when I played demo, taking it out of the 2/2 in master summoner. As for Meta, no offence but I think you would be daft to drop that (try life tapping before using it by the way). And I haven't found pushback protection to be any use in PVE apart from when tanking Mimiron's head.
Hi!
Been on PTR running some instances and raids and the like, and even with mostly full raid buffs and replen I've found my FG going oom quite often and rather quickly. I've just been resummoning mid fight during lulls to negate this, but I'm wondering if it would be prudent to throw one point into mana feed to prevent this.
Are you sure you turned off auto-cast on taunt? My felguard never runs dry (or even low) in a raid environment.
Also, been playing with spec. While the cookie cutter may perform great in a patchy type situation, in Ulduar and ToC I've found that it's a large dps loss to not have pushback protection in any spec. Due to the situational use of Meta, I'm wondering how terrible it would be to drop the points there and smatter them into hit and pushback protection in the aff and destro trees respectively.
If pushback protection is what you're looking for I'm fairly sure that the good 'ol FG/ES spec would be the optimal decimation spec.
One last thing.....I'm really curious in thoughts on black magic
Black magic has a 10 sec duration and it increases haste by 250 currently on the PTR.
Compare this to 63 SP, and let's assume your scaling factor for SP is 1.52 and haste at 1.32 as per http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t48311-s...s_3_3_numbers/, yielding 95.76 dps from the SP enchant.
I'm not certain what the proc rate and ICD of Black magic lands at on PTR, but for it to be comparable, you need an average haste gain of 72.55, resulting in a ~34% uptime on Black magic for it to be a viable option.
If the 50% proc chance/45 sec ICD remains from the old version of the enchant, your average haste gain from this enchant lands only at ~53.8 assuming casting frequency of 1.5 and using the formula
proc*duration/(ICD+cast_frequency/proc_rate)
It looks like unless the ICD of the enchant is lowered to at highest 33 seconds, we will be stuck with enchanting our weapons with spell power.
(apologies if the discussion around black magic has flowered in another part of the forums)
I leave the number crunching part of the question regarding spell stone vs fire stone (as I believe it has already been discussed), but it's the scaling of the haste vs crit in general that makes this the primary choice in a master conjuror build, not only to overcome the weaving treshold range.
Yeah, that was the purpose of those SB's. I'm not sure if it's required either, I don't really know the proper rotation for decimation but I gave it my best to do the most DPS. If anyone could give me a different rotation, I'll try it out and post a new video with the results!
I think we need to read this as list of priorities, from start to bottom. It is hard to tell will this rotation provide best results on target dummies, because it is optimized for full buffs/debuffs encounters. You can easily disregard 3 of last 4 lines in stationary tests, like one that u are trying to do. Because corruption and immolate are bellow soul fire during decimation effect it is not advised to use those at that time (I am not sure will this be correct for tests on target dummies).
I think we need to read this as list of priorities, from start to bottom. It is hard to tell will this rotation provide best results on target dummies, because it is optimized for full buffs/debuffs encounters. You can easily disregard 3 of last 4 lines in stationary tests, like one that u are trying to do. Because corruption and immolate are bellow soul fire during decimation effect it is not advised to use those at that time (I am not sure will this be correct for tests on target dummies).
The rotation looks solid, and as you said assumes full raid buffs. Some 10mans however, and even some 25mans (though undoubtedly not many) will require a warlock to be on CoE duty. With that in mind, CoA would leave the rotation, CoE would step in, and the question comes up sa to whether or not MC makes Corr worht casting. The next issue in line is the value of Immolate with 4t10. The extra damage for you and pet from immolate ticks may raise it in the rotation.
Are you sure you turned off auto-cast on taunt? My felguard never runs dry (or even low) in a raid environment.
A lot of this also has to do with whether or not the raid has enough replenishment. If the FG gets the replenishment buff enough, I find he tends to stay reasonably mana-full. If not, not.
Hey guys, with all the hype about the new buffs to demonology I decided to go test it out on the PTR. I made a video and put it on youtube if you want to check it out. I peaked at 8.7k and hovered around 7.5k. Mind you this is in decimation range, >35% the DPS is considerably lower.
So is what I'm gathering that because I was using CoE instead of CoA, it was not beneficial for me to use the gcd on corruption? Is keeping a curse and corruption up after <35% wrong? Maybe I'll go try it out on the test dummies and see the results.
As to why I'm not terribly interested in fel/ember -- I'm only considering going demo for the raid buff component. I'll keep playing with it (yay free things on PTR) as it's not like the decision has to be made tomorrow, hehe.
And yes, I did have taunt turned off, so unless it's bugged and going off anyway he was still going oom in a 10man with replen (several non-mana users in the raid, so I can't think of an excuse as to why he wouldn't get it) possible I'm missing something but I can't fathom what.
And as to
Also, been playing with spec. While the cookie cutter may perform great in a patchy type situation, in Ulduar and ToC I've found that it's a large dps loss to not have pushback protection in any spec. Due to the situational use of Meta, I'm wondering how terrible it would be to drop the points there and smatter them into hit and pushback protection in the aff and destro trees respectively.
...this is what happens when you post at ridiculous in the morning. I meant to say dropping points from the CD reduction talent....not Meta itself. Apologies.
I was afraid black magic wouldn't be that great, but it was worth a shot to ask. Thanks Indaria for doing the math....I'm....terrible at math. Go go EJ forums ftw!
And as a friendly warning...if you're copying a premade lock over to the PTR be prepared for a let-down. It's itemized horribly with low haste, incredibly high crit, and WAY under any reasonable hit cap. I would suggest copying your current toon over if they have any amount of current raid gear at all. Also true to the fact there are no glyph vendors up which makes things even harder to test. Oh, and I know this is the demo thread, but while I'm ranting about PTR....conflag is broken. It hits for 3. So find your nearest destro lock on the PTR and laugh at them. :P
Only reason i can think of you running out of mana while spec'd into mana feed is lack of lifetaps. Which should never be the case because you should be lifetapping quite frequently.
For what its worth, yesterday evening I did some chain casting on PTR with black magic on a premade mage, and the closest I saw the procs were 35 seconds apart.
It is most CERTAINLY in its current form not 45s like most procs in terms of ICD. I noticed it far far to many times going up at 38 and 40 and such with as many as 12 of them proccing right in the area of 35 seconds later. Gemmed the holy hell out of haste on the premade and just scorch spammed like mad for a mana bar, sat and ate, and did it again over and over.
I meant to say dropping points from the CD reduction talent....not Meta itself.
I am interested in this as well. Currently, I am itemized around taking 1 point in Suppression to even out my hit, and that leaves me with only 1 point in Molten Core, which seems to proc not that often, and rarely when I need it. I know that im using a 1/55/15 build, so MC isnt that big of a deal, but if I am going to have it, I might as well try to make it useful. Is it too much of a DPS hit to drop 1 point out of Nemesis to at LEAST get a 10% on MC?
Character is Zarrathustra, on Mannoroth, if you feel the need to armory.
As Meta/Ruin, for personal DPS gain, on fights such as Anub or Beasts or something of the like, I have a question about 2 target DPSing. If one target (an add or the boss) is below 35%, would it be smart to throw a SB at that target (if it isn't the focus DPS target) to get a Decimation proc? Like this:
DPS target is skull, above 35% health. However square is at 30%. Is it as much DPS on skull to hit square with a Shadowbolt? Rotation going: SB square, SB Skull, Soulfire Skull->SB square, SB Skull, Soulfire Skull, etc.
Note: This is about current patch, not 3.3.
Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity.
As Meta/Ruin, for personal DPS gain, on fights such as Anub or Beasts or something of the like, I have a question about 2 target DPSing. If one target (an add or the boss) is below 35%, would it be smart to throw a SB at that target (if it isn't the focus DPS target) to get a Decimation proc? Like this:
DPS target is skull, above 35% health. However square is at 30%. Is it as much DPS on skull to hit square with a Shadowbolt? Rotation going: SB square, SB Skull, Soulfire Skull->SB square, SB Skull, Soulfire Skull, etc.
Note: This is about current patch, not 3.3.
Depends on debuffs on the two targets and your ability to push buttons.
If your priority is meter pigging, this is a way to increase your personal dps. If you priority is to burn skull, you should stay on skull. If you're responsible for ISB/CoE those should probably be your top priority to increase the raid's overall dps, and if you can get a decimation proc in the meantime while you're keeping up ISB, by all means do it.
10/11/09, 10:49 AM
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