I was looking at this build as well, anyone have wws with such to see how it plays?

As far as glyphs/rotation, I assume glyphs would be imp/corr/immo, and keeping pet out on some fights or saccing in other situations.

Rotation would be one of the simpler ones...curse > corr > immo > incin repeat as dots end.

Am I correct in my understanding, or would there be more benefit to saccing overall?

The difference isn't as you mention it, overall the difference is that you lose 2% crit (5% crit from Imp MD and 3% from Backlash), Demonic Knowledge (which at current itemisation levels is more than outdone by SnF) and the Felguard.

I've been running the 0/31/40 build myself the past few days and it just seems to be a lot more sensible at current gear levels. The felguard has a few fights where it becomes painful to use and the imp is certainly a lot more fire and forget.


I find that currently I'm only using Immo/Corr glyphs (maintained FG in case I respec to 0/53/18), rotation wise it opens obviously with corruption -> curse -> immo -> incin*x then for the rest of the fight moves into a tap -> corr -> immo -> incin; adding renewing your curse at the beginning of the tap cycle, I allow downtime on CoA as well to maintain my incin rotation unless no Molten Core is up

Herbalism: about 33 spell power when using Fire seeds on cooldown.

yeah sure but then again u can use yr fireseeds combined with spellhaste trinkets, heroism and such things.

Not sure why opening with Corruption is "obviously" better than opening with CoA. Part of the reason we're casting these dots is for Molten Core uptime, and since CoA ticks more often than Corruption, surely you want to get that up there first?

That depends on your raid environment, and who else is running in said raid. In my opinion, CoA is the better dot to have (along with the glyph) for MC uptime (as you stated, longer and ticks more often). However, if you've got a raid without Imp Faerie Fire, one lock will be using CoE. With a 31/40 build, that lock is the likely one to use CoE, as they don't have any talents that improve CoA or Corr, and thus, you'd be using Corr in your rotation for MC uptime.

I think you mean Earth&Moon or the DK equivalent rather than Imp FF.

Imp FF takes the place of Curse of Recklessness. The effect of max rank untalented FF is the same armor reduction as CoR and does not stack, but has no AP bonus to the target, and the Improved version is going to have to be up 100% anyway for hit.

I don't mean to belabor the point too much, but I think you may have missed mine. I didn't have a problem with your statements saying hit was still the cheapest, especially given that (as you note) the spreadsheets don't prove or disprove that at the moment.

My point was strictly about your comment on hard hit capping for soulshatter. I really think you're ignoring how overpowered tank threat is at the moment. Even without any threat reduction talents, no one should ever catch a tank on any fight we've currently seen (naxx, sanctum, eye, etc).

Many people are still arguing for hit-capping. I don't see anyone (except you) really arguing that the reason is for soul shatter. That is what i meant by your statement not being reflective of the current thinking of the warlock community.

On to other points:
On the discussion of 0/41/30 vs 0/31/40, my thinking is that the former will be better at lower gear levels where the crit boost from talents adds more to dps considering the low levels of crit on gear. I would expect SnF will outscale that at some point as a) spellpower gets higher and higher, and b) crit on gear becomes greater (diminishing the relative value of crit from talents.

On the question of putting a point or two in fel synergy, I think there's an argument to be made, but ultimately I seem to run across one of two situations in raids atm:
1. My felguard takes minimal dmg which is easily healed by VE/JoL and/or random AoE "smart heals".
2. My FG dies because of massive dmg that fel synergy would not have healed through (e.g. sapphiron), or he takes avoidable dmg that I didn't manage around (i.e. I played badly)
So no, I don't think any tradeoff of crit into fel synergy is worth it for PvE raiding.

Sorry, it was added. Move along.

I've changed the wording, but I think you are over reading my intent. As far as I can see with soulshatter at the moment is more likely to be used on an AoE situation where not everything is gathered up and receiving enough threat quickly. Please correct me if I've read this incorrectly.

edit:
Would it be possible to get some contribution on when and where people are using soulshatter? WWS with a narative of what occurred would be most useful.

The only time I (and I'm sure a few others) have been forced into using Soulshatter so far has been on Malygos, even this was due to the fact that on the attempts where I popped it I wasn't getting Vigilance but had a continual % damage buff from the power sparks, with tanks pushing upwards of 4k TPS on most bosses I don't see any issues in using soulshatter at all; using it as a reason to be hit capped again I find to be flawed thought, but I do believe the hit cap is something everyone should be aiming for as it does provide a large DPS loss if a "miss" chain occurs however rare it may occur.

*edit*
I also used Soulshatter once on KT during an aggro reset, I died to his frostbolt anyway which kind of made it entirely pointless but I feel it should perhaps be worth remembering that some bosses do have an aggro reset which may force a SS to be used.