Missed that sorry. It's strange then how close in dps these are on a test dummy, the damage overall is nearly identical. I'm guessing in raid the difference would be much greater. In any case my intention was to only use the imp spec for a specific encounter where you can't melee the boss.
The felguard scales much better with raidbuffs.
On a sidenote, having a dedicated spec only for half an encounter once in a while doesn't seem worth it. Which fights are you taliking about where meleeing the boss is impossible ? So far the only one I can think of is Yogg and you can still put your felguard on corruptors or constrictors.
I am not sure if this is the thread to ask this, but Does Demo warlock Need to focus on the T10 set for the bonuses? Some of the None teir gear looks very nice, but Im not sure if someone has tested with the other pieces.
Should I focus on the 4 pieces just for the Tier 10 bonus? I recently broke up my 4 piece T9 bonus and I havent seen a DPS loss.
I have been reading thru this thread and I didnt see that issue addressed.
I am not sure if this is the thread to ask this, but Does Demo warlock Need to focus on the T10 set for the bonuses? Some of the None teir gear looks very nice, but Im not sure if someone has tested with the other pieces.
Should I focus on the 4 pieces just for the Tier 10 bonus? I recently broke up my 4 piece T9 bonus and I havent seen a DPS loss.
I have been reading thru this thread and I didnt see that issue addressed.
Well, the issue was adressed two pages ago : Post #915
2pT10 is worth ~169 dps
4pT10 is worth ~466 dps
Definitely worth taking.
4pT9 is worth ~96 dps for a demonology spec (calculated for my personal gear, but it gives you an idea). So it should be a dps loss to break it unless the new piece grants you that much of an increase.
I'm fairly new to demo, trying to boost raid dps. I have read through the last few weeks worth of pages dealing with 3.3 additions. Currently, I have glyphs of Life Tap, Felguard, and Quick Delay. I read somewhere that quick delay is a little bit more dps over Meta. I have some basic questions though I was hoping someone could answer.
1.) Should I spec into Nemesis for reduce cooldown of Meta? I feel sometimes the boss fights don't even last over 2.1 min? Or am I in the wrong? If I should spec into Nemesis...should I pop meta at the begining of the fight and then pop it when the cooldown is up at the end? Or should I only pop it once and wait for bloodlust/heroism? If so, why spec into Nemesis?
2.) Should I keep refreshing immolate even though I may not have MC proc? Don't know if the cast time is wasting w/o MC.
3.) I read a few pages back when you pop meta, you should charge in and cast immo aura. I have been doing this, but I was wondering how big the aura is? If I tele back to about 30+ yards, will it still hit the boss?
I'm fairly new to demo, trying to boost raid dps. I have read through the last few weeks worth of pages dealing with 3.3 additions. Currently, I have glyphs of Life Tap, Felguard, and Quick Delay. I read somewhere that quick delay is a little bit more dps over Meta. I have some basic questions though I was hoping someone could answer.
1.) Should I spec into Nemesis for reduce cooldown of Meta? I feel sometimes the boss fights don't even last over 2.1 min? Or am I in the wrong? If I should spec into Nemesis...should I pop meta at the begining of the fight and then pop it when the cooldown is up at the end? Or should I only pop it once and wait for bloodlust/heroism? If so, why spec into Nemesis?
2.) Should I keep refreshing immolate even though I may not have MC proc? Don't know if the cast time is wasting w/o MC.
3.) I read a few pages back when you pop meta, you should charge in and cast immo aura. I have been doing this, but I was wondering how big the aura is? If I tele back to about 30+ yards, will it still hit the boss?
1. Yes you should spec into nemesis. Demo doing even competative dps is contingent on popping meta as often as possible. If the fight length and point in time at which you use bloodlust is static, then structure your meta usage to align with that.
2. You should be able to see from the simcraft results that immolate has a fantastic DPET. Yes you should always cast it.
3. No, the range is certainly not 30yds. You should (in general) teleport back to range when meta is over.
In general you should really avoid using demon charge, and instead use general GCD's before/early during meta to get close to your garget before popping immolation aura.
IE:
* 5 seconds until Meta is off cooldown- you life-tap twice- while doing this you move closer to your target. Continue DPSing as soon as the GCD's are over.
* Meta comes off cooldown, you cast it. If you are within range, you now cast immolation aura.
* If you were not in range you wait until corruption drops off, when it does you re-cast corruption and movethe final distance to your target before popping immolation aura.
There is very rarely good reason to waste a global cooldown on demonic charge.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
Regarding priority lists, I've double checked the sims and CoA turns out to have an inferior DPET than SF.
It means that below 35%, if your target will die within 1 min, there's no need to cast CoA. Actually it's a dps loss, since you're losing a GCD.
I ran a simulation removing CoA from the actions list and got a 13dps increase (coming from one more SF cast). Yes it is almost nothing, but I just wanted to point it out.
The Demonic Pact problem only seems to happen if prayer of spirit is applied when a member of the raid is not in the instance. If one member of the raid does not have PoS then there can be issues of Demonic Pact not being applied. In order to prevent thi,s have the priest wait until all members are in the instance and within distance and then hit Prayer of Spirit. Another way to be sure there is not a problem is to click off your Prayer of Spirit and ask for a Divine spirit. This can get annoying if you are learning an encounter and must ask a priest to reapply divine spirit. Just make a macro asking for divine spirit and make sure all the priests know why you are asking for it. I'm sure when they find out that there is a potential risk to miss out on 450 Spell power that they will gladly apply Divine Spirit.
On a side note I wonder if pets not getting the Prayer of spirit would also cause the Demonic Pact not to get applied... I may have to test this out today in raid.
I find it easier to change to my off spec and back into demonology, and this has always fixed it for me. Then I don't have to ask for separate buffs or click anything off. One of my earlier concerns was that the parses were showing Demonic Pact being spammed on the person without prayer of spirit, and I wondered if clicking prayer of spirit off yourself was just causing it to spam on you and not on the raid. I haven't checked this out since I don't use that method, but those of you who do might want to double check.
Ok i have been playing the standard meta/ruin 0/56/15 rdps spec for the last 2 months for my guild i found it a nice change from facerolling as Destro. Anyhow i went to the dummies in UC and Orig to test out different gears etc and i got the best results by using spellpower/spirit/haste gear. When i am self buffed in meta/ruin spec i can get to 1045 haste, this is using fel armor and Spellstone. Normally raid buffed my sbolt is down to 1.7 sec cast and incinerate procs off molten core is about 1.2 secs soul fires are 1.4 sec with decimation. Sbolts crit for about 14-15k Incinerates for 13-15k and soul fires crit for anything above 20k. My personal DPS is of a decent standard and i normally am in the top 3 caster dps. And finally i normally buff my raid with anything from 4.2-4.4k depending on procs etc fully raid buffed.
What my question/query is would i see a personal DPS increase if i used Firestone instead of Spellstone and also what sort of Crit rating is optimal for a Demo spec as i am running at self buffed without stone at 32-33%. I understand that i am there to buff the raid which i am fine with but i am a perfectionist when it comes to my personal DPS and if i could increase my personal DPS while buffing the raid i'd be happy.
What my question/query is would i see a personal DPS increase if i used Firestone instead of Spellstone and also what sort of Crit rating is optimal for a Demo spec as i am running at self buffed without stone at 32-33%. I understand that i am there to buff the raid which i am fine with but i am a perfectionist when it comes to my personal DPS and if i could increase my personal DPS while buffing the raid i'd be happy.
Use spellstone over firestone, Demonology scales much better with haste than crit.
There is no "optimal" crit rating, 32% unbuffed is pretty decent. You'll gear for haste over crit anyway.
Check the sims thread for scaling values.
I was reading warlocomotif's post a bit back about stat weights, and they included 9 caster dps to weight sp and spirit effectively. This got me thinking about other dps incrases that may not be accounted for. I'm our guilds resident demo lock, and have good friends who are a retadin, assassination rogue, unholy dk, and another lock. We got to joking around that even in 10m I can't go destro because I buff all of them . So we did some testing, VERY minor, but still noticeable. I was wondering if anyone could follow up on this, and create some type of elegant rDPS oncrase based on comp. Anywys, that's for another post. Some results:
assassination rogue: teated deadly and instant poison. First trial no buffs, 2nd with ONLY dp. No trinkets or other profs used for him, and a constant dp buff. He wailed away on a dummy for 100 instant poison procs, while the fg went at 2 dummies for the added cleave hit for dp uptime.
Without dp: instant poison- 1059 average. Deadly: 1109 average (the dot tick)
with dp: 1117 average instant, and 1234 average dot.
That's not a bad increase...
Retadin - conso ticked for 42 more dmg than without.
Then it was raid time and we stopped.
Can anyone follow up on this? It seems like demo locks bring even more to the table than thought...
I have a macro question. I have searched for a demonology specific macro thread, and found none. I am not able to post a new thread, and read this thread as well. Yes, I noticed on the first page "There are no must have Demonology specific macros" under MACRO. So please don't troll me about read, don't waste our time, etc...
I recently, lol..yesterday, changed my off-spec to Demo due to this thread and other research. While I am still working on getting the rotation down and making it a viable spec for me I got to thinking. Is anyone using a macro to make things a little easier.
Talented you have a 2.1 min timer on your demo form. Also you may have some on use trinkets or a racial (orc for the win) that has a 2 min timer. I ended up making a macro that would cast demo form and use orc racial (currently I have no on use trinkets.. but you might). You could also add in empower demon to that macro even though its a much lower cooldown (just still have a seperate activation for it). So thats pretty much the only demo specific macro I have used for the past few months raiding as demo.
First is Demon form. Pop demon, trinket, Immo Aura, Shadowflame. All of those buy me enough time to run in under normal steam. Sometimes a LT in there before immo aura if I was at max range before it.
The only other ones I do is linking Dem Emp to my standard cast spells; SB, Inc, SF so then it's always being cast automatically with my fillers.
I’m posting this with the idea that the Imp spec could be used to keep up DP on fights where the target is not in melee range for portions of the encounter.
...
Imp Spec -3/3 Improved Imp, Glyph of Imp
Average 946 dps.
Average number of crits 37 = 55% crit rate
My dps averages out in the 5950 range for each spec over the course of the three minutes in my current gear.
You will most likely lose personal damage using the Imp spec in a raid as I’m not sure how much better the FG scales in 25 man vs. the Imp but on encounters where the target will be out of melee range this may be a good spec to keep up DP.
actually it might be a good option but switch demonic brutality to demonic embrace and improved demonic tactics to demonic power, those 6-10% crit gained by pet is not worth 2 talent points when you have 100% DP uptime.
I realize that one can simply look through the thread in its entirety in order to acquire the answers to which they seek. However the fact of the matter remains that both for completeness and convenience the OP has been renedered partially ineffective.
This is due to the recent changes in patch 3.3 which include but not limited to: T10 set bonuses, Decimation and Molten Core.
While I myself do not have the ability to create a new thread (nor do I think one is required) I did start a small little project for my own guild's warlocks and would be happy to either help out either by sharing of information or content creation.
Even among us demon locks, I've seen a pretty low number of Orcs running around. I assume it is because a desire to look cool is beating a desire to maximize DPS, unless I am missing something.
Swapping from Orc to Undead or BE in SimCraft is something around a 120 DPS loss for me in my demo spec - which is unfortunate, as I wouldn't mind a change of pace.
I was reading warlocomotif's post a bit back about stat weights, and they included 9 caster dps to weight sp and spirit effectively. This got me thinking about other dps incrases that may not be accounted for. I'm our guilds resident demo lock, and have good friends who are a retadin, assassination rogue, unholy dk, and another lock. We got to joking around that even in 10m I can't go destro because I buff all of them . So we did some testing, VERY minor, but still noticeable. I was wondering if anyone could follow up on this, and create some type of elegant rDPS oncrase based on comp. Anywys, that's for another post. Some results:
assassination rogue: teated deadly and instant poison. First trial no buffs, 2nd with ONLY dp. No trinkets or other profs used for him, and a constant dp buff. He wailed away on a dummy for 100 instant poison procs, while the fg went at 2 dummies for the added cleave hit for dp uptime.
Without dp: instant poison- 1059 average. Deadly: 1109 average (the dot tick)
with dp: 1117 average instant, and 1234 average dot.
That's not a bad increase...
Retadin - conso ticked for 42 more dmg than without.
Then it was raid time and we stopped.
Can anyone follow up on this? It seems like demo locks bring even more to the table than thought...
I'm Curious, having mantioned this to a few of my guild members they were all very surprised about your results with a rogue of any specc. It was general opinion that their poisons only scaled with attack power.
Were you using Curse of Elements during your testing?
I will also test this as we don't currently raid with a demo. warlock and this increase could make a big difference!
We did separate tests with Demonic Pact, CoE, and both together. DP was a noticeable increase. Anecdotal evidence from the rogue says I give him ~400 DPS. I will test further, and encourage others to as well. Being able to effectively model our rDPS would be great, and possibly steer our statweights away from tier if spirit becomes more important...
If possible provide recounts and logs of these tests.
I just went out with a rogue and hammered dummies for a few minutes.
CoE obviously affects poison damage, but DP had exactly 0 benefit on the poisons.
Any proccs you forgot to remove or anything from one try to the other that wasn't the same?
If possible provide recounts and logs of these tests.
I just went out with a rogue and hammered dummies for a few minutes.
CoE obviously affects poison damage, but DP had exactly 0 benefit on the poisons.
Any proccs you forgot to remove or anything from one try to the other that wasn't the same?
I'll run some more tests tonight and post the results. We made sure to have no proc effects that would occur, only DP. The biggest affect was in deadly poison (the DoT one, I believe that's it) where it ticked for a clear 130 more. We did it on the same 80 dummy too...
Well I don't want to stir up any false hopes. I'll test this to ight with rogue, dk and pally, all separately ofc.
(No felarmour, bufs or anything active)
I unwield my weapon and got 2125 SP
Then i did summon my felguard, giving me 2368SP with demonic knowledge active
I send my pet to master dummy in IF and my SP poped to 2616SP after he did a critical hit
That is a 248 increase. Demonic pact is suposed to increase SP by 10%? means i should have 2480~ SP
Now, whitout weapon and pet but WITH Felarmoure, i got 2566 SP.
With pet out i got 2809 SP with demonic knowledge.
SP is 3103 after he did a crit now. 3103-2809=294 acording my calculator witch means 2940SP if 294 would be 10%.
Now with weapon and armoure, but no pet: 3286 sp
With pet, armoure, and weapon 3538 spellpower
After sending him to the dummy, 3909 spellpower when he crit's
3909-3538=371 SP increase aka 3710SP shud my spellpower be.
Now, i can do some testing with the same methods but using trinkets/procs to increase my spelldmg and see what happens then but now i am confused why the values of the DP buff are "wierd"
(No felarmour, bufs or anything active)
I unwield my weapon and got 2125 SP
Then i did summon my felguard, giving me 2368SP with demonic knowledge active
I send my pet to master dummy in IF and my SP poped to 2616SP after he did a critical hit
That is a 148 increase. Demonic pact is suposed to increase SP by 10%? means i should have 1480~ SP
I'm not sure why you bothered testing with/without a weapon equipped. It would be the same as testing with/without any other piece of gear that doesn't provide a proc of any sort. At any rate, you need to isolate individual factors - for instance, make sure that you aren't testing with the GoLT buff; remove your cloak so you don't get Lightweave procs; and so on. A much better way to generate data that we can correctly analyze would be to run a parse and post that.
12/17/09, 3:15 AM
. So we did some testing, VERY minor, but still noticeable. I was wondering if anyone could follow up on this, and create some type of elegant rDPS oncrase based on comp. Anywys, that's for another post. Some results:
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