So the break even point seems to be a litte more than 390 unbuffed spirit.
Originally Posted by edenknight
Also, What is the exact DPS difference between Quick Decay vs Meta?
It basically turns my 18 second corruption into a 13 second corruption (3 second ticks to ~2 seconds about)
It's more complicated than that because quick decay also improves your molten core up time. I did the same simulation as above except using actual gear rather than just stats.
So the break even point seems to be a litte more than 390 unbuffed spirit.
This is assuming personal dps only. Which is kind of defeating the purpose of the Demo spec.
There is no breaking point where the pDPS gained from glyph of Meta would offset the rDPS loss of losing glyph of Life Tap through DP.
With 390 unbuffed spirit you're providing ((390+80)*1.1)*0.39)*0.1 = 20.163 sp to the raid. Glyph of meta would have to provide a much more substantial pDPS increase to offset the loss.
I am fairly certain you could not do so with a macro, it would require some conditionals that are intentionally unimplemented. It would also make warlocks (and a bunch of other classes) pretty boring since you would just hammer one button.
I suspect you couldn't do it with an addon either. Though rogues were doing something to automatically switch weapons after 5 stacks of a poison was up.
This is impossible to do with either a macro or an addon.
1) You cannot change binds in combat. Whatever key combination and action you have bound to a certain button stays that way until you get out of combat.
2) Macro conditionals do not include checking the player's buffs or the target's health, only the existence of a target and whether or not they're friendly, hostile, dead, or alive.
The rogue weapon swapping addon which serlin is referring to did not automatically swap your weapons, but provided you with a keybind that would switch your weapons between 2 different sets, so that you could apply 5 stacks of a certain poison (Deadly, I think?), then swap to Instant Poison on both weapons, resulting in a higher DPS.
This is impossible to do with either a macro or an addon.
1) You cannot change binds in combat. Whatever key combination and action you have bound to a certain button stays that way until you get out of combat.
2) Macro conditionals do not include checking the player's buffs or the target's health, only the existence of a target and whether or not they're friendly, hostile, dead, or alive.
The rogue weapon swapping addon which serlin is referring to did not automatically swap your weapons, but provided you with a keybind that would switch your weapons between 2 different sets, so that you could apply 5 stacks of a certain poison (Deadly, I think?), then swap to Instant Poison on both weapons, resulting in a higher DPS.
No, the addon actually swapped your weapons automatically using a script command that checked target debuff stacks/duration. PoisonSwapper - Addons - Curse
No, the addon actually swapped your weapons automatically using a script command that checked target debuff stacks/duration. PoisonSwapper - Addons - Curse
Conditionals such as debuffs can be used to swap weapons, or at least they could before 3.3. This is not the case with /cast or /castspellbyname. Those are protected functions.
With patch 3.3.2 raising imrpoved shadow bolt damage from a 5 % to a 10% damage increase it seems logical to me that it makes no longer sense to replace casting SB with incinerate while MC procs . Am I right in this? In the same line of thinking wouldn`t it now be more effective to replace CoA for CoD as for 75% of the fight we wouldn`t rely on MC procs any longer?
I am not sure about the SB buff with regards to demo but I am certain that only corruption procs molten core and this has been the case for some time now.
I am not sure about the SB buff with regards to demo but I am certain that only corruption procs molten core and this has been the case for some time now.
Thats's what I thought too, but at the same thime I thought I migth habe overlooked something playing a dotlock as main spec I am not all that familiar with demo. So why is CoA rather than CoD in the demo rota ?
Demonology doesn't use CoA unless there is less than 1 minute left in a fight.
Several people have found casting COA to be a dps loss -- my personal demonology sim profile shows soul fire as a significantly higher DPET than COA. I just used the bis pDPS profile from the 3.3 raiding OP. Soul fire DPET 15,212, COA 10988. Indicating a dps loss to cast COA in execute range.
This also makes me think some of the opening post profiles in the 3.2 simulation thread are outdated for current mechanics.
Several people have found casting COA to be a dps loss -- my personal demonology sim profile shows soul fire as a significantly higher DPET than COA. I just used the bis pDPS profile from the 3.3 raiding OP. Soul fire DPET 15,212, COA 10988. Indicating a dps loss to cast COA in execute range.
This also makes me think some of the opening post profiles in the 3.2 simulation thread are outdated for current mechanics.
My Sims profile also shows CoA to be a dps loss compared to SoulFire. It depends on your gear.
This is also why everyone should run the Sims for his own toon, and not only check the rotation and scaling values of the Sims thread.
Edit : I already mentioned it in this very thread - Post #982
With patch 3.3.2 raising imrpoved shadow bolt damage from a 5 % to a 10% damage increase it seems logical to me that it makes no longer sense to replace casting SB with incinerate while MC procs . Am I right in this?
For my profile, SB's DPET hovers around 6k (not including the latest 5% buff), whereas Incinerate is over 8k. The buff affects the DPET in a linear way, so even with extra 5% (300DPET?) the gap is still quite big.
No, the addon actually swapped your weapons automatically using a script command that checked target debuff stacks/duration. PoisonSwapper - Addons - Curse
Ah, thanks for the update. However, notice I did say macro conditionals. Also, what I said holds true in regards to binding swaps.
Anyone here done math for the new SB vs. Incinerate with MC up? I'm wondering if the haste is now worth the drop in damage.
What about Corruption though? On my DPET list, corruption is ranked lower than CoA. Of course it is still worth having up before 35% but under 35% how do we know if its worth it if Simcraft doesn't provide a DPET for Soulfire with MC up? I would presume the buff to soul fire with MC is quite significant, but with such a low DPET for Corruption is it even worth casting?
What about Corruption though? On my DPET list, corruption is ranked lower than CoA. Of course it is still worth having up before 35% but under 35% how do we know if its worth it if Simcraft doesn't provide a DPET for Soulfire with MC up? I would presume the buff to soul fire with MC is quite significant, but with such a low DPET for Corruption is it even worth casting?
The fact that it procs MC (and with quick decay, you'll get more MC procs) makes it worth casting, I would think.
And actually I asked this question before 3.3, before quick decay and the MC change here. I've not heard anything different to change that assessment.
What about Corruption though? On my DPET list, corruption is ranked lower than CoA. Of course it is still worth having up before 35% but under 35% how do we know if its worth it if Simcraft doesn't provide a DPET for Soulfire with MC up? I would presume the buff to soul fire with MC is quite significant, but with such a low DPET for Corruption is it even worth casting?
You can always play with the action list in simcraft. For example, on my toon, with the original action list (which re-casts corruption for the whole duration of the fight) I get 10168dps . If I change the entry to actions+=/corruption,health_percentage>=35 (so that it doesn't cast corruption in decimation phase) , I get 10093dps . So, it looks like the MC proc makes it worth casting even when decimation is up.
You can always play with the action list in simcraft. For example, on my toon, with the original action list (which re-casts corruption for the whole duration of the fight) I get 10168dps . If I change the entry to actions+=/corruption,health_percentage>=35 (so that it doesn't cast corruption in decimation phase) , I get 10093dps . So, it looks like the MC proc makes it worth casting even when decimation is up.
I got around a 100 dps decrease without corruption under 35%, so this means I should continue to use Corruption under 35%. Thanks for the advice.
Anyone here done math for the new SB vs. Incinerate with MC up? I'm wondering if the haste is now worth the drop in damage.
SB will never outdamage Incinerate with MC up. At least not until they do some very very significant changes.
In my case, Sb and Incinerate need 1.96 seconds to cast.
Molten Core reduces the casting time by 30%, wich results in 1.37 seconds. (-0.59 seconds)
With more haste on your gear this bonus indeed gets "weaker", but only by 0,00175 seconds per haste
Basically you cast 30% faster......so SB needs to do 30% more Damage than Incinerate, to become equal during MC.
Shadowbolt has a better scaling than Incinerate, due to 0.5 seconds longer base cast-time. Incinerate scales with 71% of your Spellpower, SB with 86%.
BUT....SB "only" receives 10% Damage Bonus, Incinerate receives 18% during MC. The bigger your ammount of spellpower is, the bigger is the diffrence between 10% and 18% of that ammount.
I simcrafted myself with some weird ammounts of Spellpower.....and nothing changed between Sb and Incinerate.
I think you can say that it just evens out itself pretty fine.....or did I miss something??
I have a question and since I have been looking for half an hour now in the forums and didnt find the answer...
Lets say I have lucky proc of DFO+Lightweave embroidery+Ashen Verdict... and my pet crits, proccing Demonic Pact. These buffs run out, but buffed demonic pact is still active and the DP proc again. Does it overwrite the old buffed DP?
If not then DFO is godly trinket for raid buffing. Thanks for answer.
I have a question and since I have been looking for half an hour now in the forums and didnt find the answer...
Lets say I have lucky proc of DFO+Lightweave embroidery+Ashen Verdict... and my pet crits, proccing Demonic Pact. These buffs run out, but buffed demonic pact is still active and the DP proc again. Does it overwrite the old buffed DP?
If not then DFO is godly trinket for raid buffing. Thanks for answer.
As many other spells it does not overwrite a stronger one.
So yes, you will get maximum time of the highest DP buff but at a cost of lower uptime.
EDIT: Sorry, I was wrong. Has it been changed at some point?
Have seen this question before but no answer.
Is there some addon that can track how much SP DP gave over a fight? Preferably as a graph or at least an average.
Last edited by corepolka : 02/12/10 at 11:26 AM.
Reason: Added question
In order to make it completely accurate for your particular raid I have a few directions.
1. Download the spreadsheet off of google docs.
2. Run Simulationcraft on all your DPS casters. Remember Ret and prot Pallies also gain from added spell power. Insert the spell power coefficient acquired from simcraft into the "SP weight" section for each of your raid members. Make sure to unclick spellpower in the buffs section before simulating.
3. Run Simulationcraft on yourself and note your Raid buffed Spell power. Enter this into the yellow highlighted "Demo spellpower" box. Make sure to unclick spellpower in the buffs section before simulating.
4. Check World of Logs or WWS (I believe WWS is no longer up to date) and find out your approximate Demonic Pact uptime. (You can probably assume 90% safely) Enter this into the yellow highlighted "DP uptime %" box.
5. Thats it. Everything should populate from there.
6. The "In raid" column can be used to quickly adjust who is in raid for a quick calculation of your raid. To calculate a raid member into your rDPS just place a 1 in that column. To remove a character from the calculation place a 0 in the column.
It is interesting to see how DP uptime and raid composition effect the overall rDPS gains for a given raid. Still working on the healer section and would love any ideas or feedback on how to improve the spreadsheet.
Cheers!
Last edited by DoctaOcta : 02/23/10 at 1:50 AM.
Reason: Forgot to add ( Make sure to unclick spellpower in the buffs section before simulating.) in directions.
Demonology
Demonic Pact: This effect now has a 45-second duration, up from 12 seconds, and a 20-second internal cooldown.
So, I am trying to understand the purpose of this change. Seems to me like a very very modest buff.
Immolate: The damage-over-time component of this spell can now produce critical strikes. Seems like a nice buff, especially to demon with its higher crit rate.
02/01/10, 11:29 AM
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