Demonology Thread - Page 5

Splot · 12/11/08, 4:22 AM

Originally Posted by merlins

has any one tried these 2 specs and seen a difference and why?

Both specs are demon/hybrid, one is shadowbolt and one is incinerate.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft shadow

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft incerate

What i am try to say is which one of these specs would do more dps? or has anyone tried both and had some theory's on them, anyone?

The second build is arguably one of the strongest DPS performing builds available for a demonologist. This has been discussed previously in the thread and the simulator supports this. The first build isn't one I've seen put up before and would need to be simulated.

Ossifrage · 12/11/08, 2:19 PM

I posted this in the pet thread a few days back, but no response and I'm wondering if most people bother keeping up with it. I still haven't had time to test this, can anyone offer insight?

--------------

If Doom is viable DPS then how about something along the line of... 0/27/40+4
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Sac Imp for the buff, use doomguard to start the fight, pop fel domination pull out infernal for the last minute?

While this will depend a great deal on cooldowns it seems like it would be competitive for max output.

Two Question:
1) Do Doom/Infernal overwrite the buff from sac imp? (I think that I read that Doom Guard will not but that Infernal will.
2) Will Doom/Infernal benefit from Imp Enslave Demon and Unholy Power? (Are the demons enslaved? summoned?)
3) If they do benefit from Imp Enslave would the +10% AS be worth the two points?

dcpwns · 12/11/08, 3:40 PM

Anyone see the new upcoming undocumented changes for demo? It seems like a nerf to the tree that needs it the least. That is if these changes are right.

Demonology

* Demonic Knowledge now Increases your spell damage by an amount equal to 3/6/9% of the total of your active demon's Stamina plus Intellect. (Down from 4/8/12%)
* Demonic Tactics now Increases melee and spell critical strike chance for you and your summoned demon by 1/2/3/4/5%. (Down from 2/4/6/8/10%)
* Demonic Empathy now affects all spells for 15 seconds. (Old - 3 next spells)

The last one isn't a nerf though.

Batuk · 12/11/08, 4:13 PM

It must be in preperation for something else, I dont see the changes making any sense at all otherwise. So lets hope they have something else coming..

• Nicarras · 12/11/08, 4:14 PM

Most likely in preparation of the crit gear thats going to be in the future raids/badge gear. There was just too much crit down that tree.

Ossifrage · 12/11/08, 4:22 PM

Originally Posted by dcpwns

Anyone see the new upcoming undocumented changes for demo?

I checked PTR notes and they don't mention any of these changes. By undocumented did you mean that these changes have been made on PTR but have not bee included in notes?

WarlockMan · 12/11/08, 4:54 PM

Minagi said "Taking Demonic Pact right now is a very minimal increase (6.4 spell power if my math is correct?)."

I think you misunderstood the effect of Demonic Pact.

Basically whenever your pet makes a critical hit (white or spell) the entire Raid Group (including yourself) will receive a 12 second +SP buff equivalent to 10% of your current Spell Power.

If your SP is 2864 raid-buffed then your entire raid group (and you) will be receiving +286sp for 12 seconds ... that's nothing to sneeze at ...

(First time poster, couldn't figure out how to get the quote the person ... Sorry )

Akj · 12/11/08, 4:58 PM

The rumored nerfs are not happening

There are some patch notes that reference nerfs to Demonic Tactics and Demonic Knowledge.

We are NOT making those changes.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> We are not nerfing Demonology

Mindaika · 12/11/08, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by WarlockMan

I think you misunderstood the effect of Demonic Pact.

Basically whenever your pet makes a critical hit (white or spell) the entire Raid Group (including yourself) will receive a 12 second +SP buff equivalent to 10% of your current Spell Power.

If your SP is 2864 raid-buffed then your entire raid group (and you) will be receiving +286sp for 12 seconds ... that's nothing to sneeze at ...

Absolutely, depending. In raids with Ele Shammies, Totem of Wrath will likely be a greater buff, but not all raids have them (mine included).

Also, has it been established WHOSE SP is used for the calculation? (Warlock with DP vs. Receiver of buff)

novasphere · 12/11/08, 7:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mindaika

Absolutely, depending. In raids with Ele Shammies, Totem of Wrath will likely be a greater buff, but not all raids have them (mine included).

Also, has it been established WHOSE SP is used for the calculation? (Warlock with DP vs. Receiver of buff)

It's 10% of the Warlock with DP's spell power.

turturin · 12/11/08, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by novasphere

It's 10% of the Warlock with DP's spell power.

Yes, and just to add to that. It will be based on "raid-buffed" spellpower. The only exclusions would be flametongue totem, ToW, and Imp divine spirit. These don't stack with DP and are not included in the calculation of the size of your DP proc.

fconde · 12/11/08, 9:07 PM

I was under the impression that Demonic pact would not proc from white attacks meaning it procs only from the felguard cleave. Is this still true or was this true and was changed or am I simply imagining things?

Chronepsis · 12/11/08, 9:11 PM

Demonic Pact procs from any hit, while Demonic EMPATHY only procs from Cleave.

• Zakalwe · 12/12/08, 2:35 AM

Something I haven't seen discussed so far in this thread is the survivability of the Felguard, in particular as 0/41/30 - that is, with no Fel Synergy.

I've had no trouble through any of the 25-man raids in WotLK, with one notable exception: Sarth with drakes up. I keep losing the Felguard, and I can't even really tell what he's dying to half the time. Does anyone have any hints here?

In general the combination of 80% AoE avoidance and the amount of raid healing going around these days keeps him safe from anything in Naxx, and Malygos is no trouble at all. For Sarth you have to do a little bit of juggling to keep him out of the flame waves, but it's no big deal. With even one drake up, though, I've been forced to fall back on a phase shifted imp. The 5% dmg 5% crit buff from MD is nice, but it sucks to lose the Felguard's DPS, which is usually 25% of my own.

turturin · 12/12/08, 3:31 AM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Something I haven't seen discussed so far in this thread is the survivability of the Felguard, in particular as 0/41/30 - that is, with no Fel Synergy.

I've had no trouble through any of the 25-man raids in WotLK, with one notable exception: Sarth with drakes up. I keep losing the Felguard, and I can't even really tell what he's dying to half the time. Does anyone have any hints here?

In general the combination of 80% AoE avoidance and the amount of raid healing going around these days keeps him safe from anything in Naxx, and Malygos is no trouble at all. For Sarth you have to do a little bit of juggling to keep him out of the flame waves, but it's no big deal. With even one drake up, though, I've been forced to fall back on a phase shifted imp. The 5% dmg 5% crit buff from MD is nice, but it sucks to lose the Felguard's DPS, which is usually 25% of my own.

I had problems with this as well tonight, and also not sure what he was dying from. When i kept him focused on the little fire elemental adds instead of the boss, things seemed to go better. He did more like 15% of my damage on the fight, but it was better than no pet damage and losing DK and MD buffs.

Sephirah · 12/12/08, 5:35 AM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Something I haven't seen discussed so far in this thread is the survivability of the Felguard, in particular as 0/41/30 - that is, with no Fel Synergy.

I've had no trouble through any of the 25-man raids in WotLK, with one notable exception: Sarth with drakes up. I keep losing the Felguard, and I can't even really tell what he's dying to half the time. Does anyone have any hints here?

In general the combination of 80% AoE avoidance and the amount of raid healing going around these days keeps him safe from anything in Naxx, and Malygos is no trouble at all. For Sarth you have to do a little bit of juggling to keep him out of the flame waves, but it's no big deal. With even one drake up, though, I've been forced to fall back on a phase shifted imp. The 5% dmg 5% crit buff from MD is nice, but it sucks to lose the Felguard's DPS, which is usually 25% of my own.

If anyone find that his FG survivability is a problem, he could opt for a 3/5 Demonic Tactics 2/2 Fel Synergy.
This works in fights where the pet takes constantly small damage and nobody is healing it (i.e. some heroics pugs).
If not happening too often, maybe pulling out the Imp and keeping it shifted could be a better solution.

Mageborn · 12/12/08, 6:00 AM

Originally Posted by Vigor

Hey! First time poster, long time reader here!

Ive been running around with 0/41/30 and 0/30/4+1 for awhile, and its all good. Im top or near the top always, but dps vary from bossfights ofcourse. I tried affliction on patchwerk once too, but only managed 4.5k dps, but it was extremely spiky and i lost my haunt uptime alot. It was also my first bossfight as affliction.

Anyway, im trying meta/ruin now, for the fun of it. Might have good burst potential for shorter fights. I figured, while sitting at work ill try out to check if the Imp. Demonic Tactics worked or not, and my testings concludes that it does not. This might be old news though. I didnt do the best testing, only around 600 hits and 800 hits, but it still seem to point out that the talent is not working properly. I should have tested with speccing away from it too, but couldnt be arsed.

I got some screens:
ImageShack - Image Hosting :: wowscrnshot120608105722it6.jpg
ImageShack - Image Hosting :: wowscrnshot120608105730qf0.jpg
ImageShack - Image Hosting :: wowscrnshot120608112702jb7.jpg
ImageShack - Image Hosting :: wowscrnshot120608112709jc8.jpg

Dont flame the UI! Its barely playable on the laptop and i just have it on work to do something in the spare time

.
What do you guys think? Maybe someone else could do a more proper test, if not done already. If it is so that the talent is broken, it is atleast no use of speccing it while having this spec

Based on 2000+ hits between two tests (one with 30% crit on my char pane, one with 14% crit), Imp. DT does not appear to be working. (I have 3/3 imp DT.)

orcspit · 12/12/08, 9:46 AM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Something I haven't seen discussed so far in this thread is the survivability of the Felguard, in particular as 0/41/30 - that is, with no Fel Synergy.

I've had no trouble through any of the 25-man raids in WotLK, with one notable exception: Sarth with drakes up. I keep losing the Felguard, and I can't even really tell what he's dying to half the time. Does anyone have any hints here?

In general the combination of 80% AoE avoidance and the amount of raid healing going around these days keeps him safe from anything in Naxx, and Malygos is no trouble at all. For Sarth you have to do a little bit of juggling to keep him out of the flame waves, but it's no big deal. With even one drake up, though, I've been forced to fall back on a phase shifted imp. The 5% dmg 5% crit buff from MD is nice, but it sucks to lose the Felguard's DPS, which is usually 25% of my own.

I noticed some really strange pet behavior on Sartharion, namely with the flame waves he casts. My pet was getting hit by every flame wave regardless of his positioning. Several times he would be standing right next to me and not attacking and still get smacked by the wave even tho I was not. Likely if something similar is happening to you then your healers are keeping the felguard up but in 3 drakes there probably simply isn't enough healing to go around.

Regardless with the AoE changes if you have a nice druid or priest who is willing to spend the time to drop a HoT or two on your pet then the felguard seems to be pretty easy to keep up. The only exception of course is when the warlock does something stupid (like not calling the pet off when he is standing in a void zone.)

Rozzenwyn · 12/12/08, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by novasphere

It's 10% of the Warlock with DP's spell power.

Do you happen to know if it includes trinket buffs? So like if this procs while my trinket spell power is added is that calculated in? I ask because I have the really nice trinket off of Sartharion 25 man that basically is 260 spell power at all times since you can prime it before the fight begins and it never falls off. So I'm wondering if that 260 spell power gets calculated into my Demonic Pact buff. If so then it is not going to be difficult at all to out buff the elemental shaman buff once in full epic 80 gear. I'm already coming close in only half epic 80 gear.

Lillyanne · 12/12/08, 11:48 AM

As far as I know it does. I only base it on personal experience. My sp is usually 1300 base. And whenever DP procs, it is constantly changing from 1430ish to around 1600 sp.

The only thing I can figure out why such discrepencies is that one of my trinekts procced.

Mageborn · 12/13/08, 10:14 AM

After further testing, after a couple of respecs, I've noticed that Imp. DT does increase the felguard's crit.
My previous tests based on several thousand hits were showing that it clearly was not working.

There is a possible bug here, but it's unclear what is causing it.

I suggest that you bring your felguard to a target dummy and ensure that this talent is working for you.

Bookoo · 12/14/08, 12:20 AM

Do you happen to know if it includes trinket buffs? So like if this procs while my trinket spell power is added is that calculated in? I ask because I have the really nice trinket off of Sartharion 25 man that basically is 260 spell power at all times since you can prime it before the fight begins and it never falls off. So I'm wondering if that 260 spell power gets calculated into my Demonic Pact buff. If so then it is not going to be difficult at all to out buff the elemental shaman buff once in full epic 80 gear. I'm already coming close in only half epic 80 gear.

It does indeed.

I've seen my sp go from ~2500 to ~3200+ with both trinkets and DP up. It's a great ability.

Dwar · 12/15/08, 11:30 AM

Hello fellow Locks.

I see that of whats been discussed here is the version of 0/30/41 or 0/31/40 with imp as your pet. I am useing 0/50/21 spec with felguard. What i am after is good and valid points of why the specs above is considered as a better choice. My spell rotation is corr followed with sb spam. I got fully t7 gear, so i got pretty much naxgear on my lock. What is see as bonus and as others here have talked about aswell is the demonic pack. This i find usefull as a raid buff. I also find the Imb shadow bolt debuff usefull for my own dps. So i guess my question will be something like this:

1. Why imp over another pet.
2. Why fire over shadow.
3. And why 0/30/41 or 0/31/40 over my spec.

Cheers

Espilfovi · 12/15/08, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Dwar

1. Why imp over another pet.
2. Why fire over shadow.
3. And why 0/30/41 or 0/31/40 over my spec.

#1 Because the Felhunters are bugged atm I think. They dont always attack properly causing their dps to be lower. Plus the Felhunter has to be in melee range, which in some fights or on trash mobs might not always be preferable. Plus the Demonology/Destro trees don't have talents to buff Felhunters, but do buff an Imp.

#2 Because if you take the imp and Master Demonologist you get 5% fire dmg and 5% crit. With Molten Core procs, Emberstorm AND Shadow and Flame Destro probably buffs Fire dmg more.

#3 Because the felguard only increases dmg with 5% (and reduces taken). While the imp also gives more crit. Your spec also boosts the raid (especially with no shammies around), while the latter two rely on either Shadow and Flame or the combo between Demonic Tactics and Knowledge to buff your OWN dps.

Your spec requires you to invest points that probably don't add the same dps as when spreading them out of both demonology and destro.

Drison · 12/15/08, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dwar

Hello fellow Locks.

I see that of whats been discussed here is the version of 0/30/41 or 0/31/40 with imp as your pet. I am useing 0/50/21 spec with felguard. What i am after is good and valid points of why the specs above is considered as a better choice. My spell rotation is corr followed with sb spam. I got fully t7 gear, so i got pretty much naxgear on my lock. What is see as bonus and as others here have talked about aswell is the demonic pack. This i find usefull as a raid buff. I also find the Imb shadow bolt debuff usefull for my own dps. So i guess my question will be something like this:

1. Why imp over another pet.
2. Why fire over shadow.
3. And why 0/30/41 or 0/31/40 over my spec.

Cheers

1. The imp is for the MD buff that increases ALL fire dmg by 5% and crit by 5%
2. Fire because you get Emberstorm and Shadow and Flame plus the imp buff.
3. Because of emberstorm and shadow and flame plus the imp buff 0/30/40+1 is simply going to out dmg and out scale 0/50/21. The only reason really to go 50 points in demo is for demonic pact if your no rolling with a ele shaman.