Based on my gear, I feel like I should be putting out significantly more damage than I do. Simcraft backs this up: running my personal profile through the very latest version of simcraft (as of 9/15), simcraft says I should be putting out 7280 DPS.
The actual simcraft command I used was:
However, I'm having trouble pushing beyond 5.5k - 6k DPS on Patchwerk-style fights. Here's a parse of 17 attempts on Northrend Beasts from last night. Most of the attempts we didn't make it terribly far into the worms phase, so I think it's not all that far off from being a Patchwerk-style fight. We also used Levitate to avoid having to run out of fire, so I was moving very little for Gormok as long as I wasn't snobolded. My overall DPS was just under 5k; on the best 3 attempts (as ranked only by my personal DPS and not fight duration or anything else), I did 5509, 5456, and 5378 DPS. That's basically 2k DPS less than what Simcraft says I should be doing.
I know that no one in my raid put out anywhere near the numbers I'm aiming for, but I'm trying to figure out some reason for the gross 25% discrepancy between simulation and reality. I know one factor was that we didn't have our shadow priest last night, but that definitely doesn't explain all of it. I also know that my gear is sorely needing upgrades for TotGC raids - but I'm not comparing my actual DPS to a BiS-geared lock. Any thoughts or suggestions?
The difference between simcraft and actual raiding is very big. I have about 400 more spellpower than you do unbuffed, and I average around 7k on northrend beasts. With your gear, doing 5.5k sounds about right when you're missing various raid buffs, and do to things like movement and latency.
This is my wmo from Ignis in 25 Ulduar this evening. For the past week I've noticed in recount that my Hit% on Incinerate is about 70% and my crit is 30% with no misses. The other locks in my raid group are getting 70% crit and 30% hit but I have superior gear and more crit % then the others. I have no idea why and I've tested different gear sets on the Heroic dummy and every time I get significantly more hit% than crit%. My gear isn't subpar by any means. I could switch some gems out but that wouldn't affect my crit rating, only my haste. Any suggestions?
Hey guys, just thought I'd run this past you and see what everyone could add.
I get about 3125 SP raid buffed, almost 4k with procs and trinkets and such. My crit is around 25% normally, close to 28-30% with FM if I'm lucky. My hit varies between 10% gear (+ 3% talents, 3% boomkin/spriest and 1% draenei) to 14% gear and 3% talents. In raids I don't so all that great with my DPS. Some fights I'll get around 5k, but usually I sit at about 4k.
Usual rotation is LT > CoD > Immo > CB > Conf > Incin spam until Immo needs refresh > CB > Conf > LT > Incin spam etc.
Here's my armory aswell (<-- click for link), just to give an idea of stats and how I'm geared.
Hey guys, just thought I'd run this past you and see what everyone could add.
I get about 3125 SP raid buffed, almost 4k with procs and trinkets and such. My crit is around 25% normally, close to 28-30% with FM if I'm lucky. My hit varies between 10% gear (+ 3% talents, 3% boomkin/spriest and 1% draenei) to 14% gear and 3% talents. In raids I don't so all that great with my DPS. Some fights I'll get around 5k, but usually I sit at about 4k.
Usual rotation is LT > CoD > Immo > CB > Conf > Incin spam until Immo needs refresh > CB > Conf > LT > Incin spam etc.
Here's my armory aswell (<-- click for link), just to give an idea of stats and how I'm geared.
Just yeah, wondering what I could be doing to fix my DPS.
Many fight in report are very situational. I can take in account only Emalon - because it is DPS figth - like Patchverk.
So 4 min fight time: 240 sec.
Take in account ideal values.
1. 19 immo * 15 = 285 ? -> should be 240 / 15 = 16 (don't clip your dot)
2. 18 conf * 10: 180 ? -> should be 24 (lost 25% of your conf and backdraft uptime)
3. 14 chaos * 12 = 168 7 should be 20 (lost 30% of your chaosbolt)
Many fight in report are very situational. I can take in account only Emalon - because it is DPS figth - like Patchverk.
So 4 min fight time: 240 sec.
Take in account ideal values.
1. 19 immo * 15 = 285 ? -> should be 240 / 15 = 16 (don't clip your dot)
2. 18 conf * 10: 180 ? -> should be 24 (lost 25% of your conf and backdraft uptime)
3. 14 chaos * 12 = 168 7 should be 20 (lost 30% of your chaosbolt)
I'm not very good at reading these logs, but when I sorted by Boss -> XT-002 Deconstructor and looked at your damage done, I saw several ticks of Drain Soul. You shouldn't be casting that at all, much less several times.
Hey guys, just thought I'd run this past you and see what everyone could add.
I get about 3125 SP raid buffed, almost 4k with procs and trinkets and such. My crit is around 25% normally, close to 28-30% with FM if I'm lucky. My hit varies between 10% gear (+ 3% talents, 3% boomkin/spriest and 1% draenei) to 14% gear and 3% talents. In raids I don't so all that great with my DPS. Some fights I'll get around 5k, but usually I sit at about 4k.
Usual rotation is LT > CoD > Immo > CB > Conf > Incin spam until Immo needs refresh > CB > Conf > LT > Incin spam etc.
Here's my armory aswell (<-- click for link), just to give an idea of stats and how I'm geared.
Just yeah, wondering what I could be doing to fix my DPS.
Not sure if you mean your rotation literally, but Shayo's analysis of your missed conflagrates and chaos bolts leads me to believe it is.
If you wait until Immolate needs to be refreshed to cast Chaos Bolt and Conflagrate again, you're losing a lot of time that you could be casting those spells.
The ideal "rotation" is something like LT > CoD > Immo > CB > Conf > Incin spam until Conflagrate or Chaos Bolt is off cooldown, From there, it's a set of priorities, where Conflagrate and Chaos Bolt are your highest priorities. Cast them as soon as they're off cooldown. Refresh Immolate when it's up, and fill with Incin as necessary when everything else is on cooldown.
Sticking to a set rotation will always be a DPS loss. We're in the says of priorities, rather than rotations. Hope that helps!
Many fight in report are very situational. I can take in account only Emalon - because it is DPS figth - like Patchverk.
So 4 min fight time: 240 sec.
Take in account ideal values.
1. 19 immo * 15 = 285 ? -> should be 240 / 15 = 16 (don't clip your dot)
2. 18 conf * 10: 180 ? -> should be 24 (lost 25% of your conf and backdraft uptime)
3. 14 chaos * 12 = 168 7 should be 20 (lost 30% of your chaosbolt)
I was under the impression that the cooldown of chaosbolt started after it had completed casting so the minimum time between chaosbolts should be 12+~1.5.
Thanks so far, guys. I'll take this into account for when we're back in ToC tomorrow and see how I do. I'll try to remember to watch the cooldowns on CB and Conf and work with them more than waiting for Immo.
Also, I just want to confirm my thinking behind using Backdraft after Conf with Incinerates? Or it won't matter which spell is used during a Backdraft? Or! what is the best spell to use during Backdraft, or best spells?
Thanks so far, guys. I'll take this into account for when we're back in ToC tomorrow and see how I do. I'll try to remember to watch the cooldowns on CB and Conf and work with them more than waiting for Immo.
Also, I just want to confirm my thinking behind using Backdraft after Conf with Incinerates? Or it won't matter which spell is used during a Backdraft? Or! what is the best spell to use during Backdraft, or best spells?
Never wait for CB/Conf cd's. Always cast any spell.
Immo (when down) > Chaos > Inci
Never wait for CB/Conf cd's. Always cast any spell.
Immo (when down) > Chaos > Inci
If CB is available, and Conflag has just a couple seconds before it is off cooldown, I'll typically Incinerate until I can Conflag and THEN CB. That way, my CB gets the benefit of Backdraft.
Are you guys saying this is a mistake? Should I cast CB when it's available without delaying it a couple seconds for Backdraft?
This delay is filled with Incinerates, as I said (so I'm not sitting there doing nothing, of course).
So, like everyone else, I feel like I should be putting out more DPS with my current gear. I'm using a mod called easyDestro to help w/ my spell rotation/priority list, which was suggested by my raid leader.
Here's a WWS of our raid tonight (reg 25 TOC & Hodir), minus Northrend Beasts. I didn't live through any fight on Hodir, so feel free to ignore that. Any tips would be appreciated - should I be including Soul Fire in my rotation? I never run out of shards as it is. Should I regem for some more crit? I recently switched from the Immolate glyph to Lifetap, should I change that back? I do have a Dying Curse in the bank I could switch out for one of my trinkets, but the hit would be wasted and I'm not sure it's worth it for the bigger proc.
So, like everyone else, I feel like I should be putting out more DPS with my current gear. I'm using a mod called easyDestro to help w/ my spell rotation/priority list, which was suggested by my raid leader.
Here's a WWS of our raid tonight (reg 25 TOC & Hodir), minus Northrend Beasts. I didn't live through any fight on Hodir, so feel free to ignore that. Any tips would be appreciated - should I be including Soul Fire in my rotation? I never run out of shards as it is. Should I regem for some more crit? I recently switched from the Immolate glyph to Lifetap, should I change that back? I do have a Dying Curse in the bank I could switch out for one of my trinkets, but the hit would be wasted and I'm not sure it's worth it for the bigger proc.
Thanks for the help.
Hodir is very dependand on your positioning and luck. You want to get Storm Cloud buff, be close to the Fire Spot (the one that mage NPC is creating) and if possible to stay in the moonlight (cast by Moonkin NPC). These 3 things together fires you on the top of raid dps very fast.
If you want to compare with others, post other WWS fights that are not so buff dependant.
Also looking at your build... Your build is missing ISL, which probably makes you Life Tap more then needed to keep the buff up, loosing some more time you can spend dpsing.
So, like everyone else, I feel like I should be putting out more DPS with my current gear. I'm using a mod called easyDestro to help w/ my spell rotation/priority list, which was suggested by my raid leader.
There are other locks in my guild using Easy Destro. I have never seen those locks fare as well as myself using this mod. Having something tell you what to cast every time will not always tell you to cast the right thing.
I use TellMeWhen. I have it configured so that nothing shows up on the screen if I have not cast anything. I have it set up as such:
Left box - Chaos Bolt
I have it set to look at my CD, show when unavailable, and display timer. If I have cast it the box pops up showing the cooldown. If the box is not there at all, it means it is available. This is set up in this fashion so that I can tell exactly when it will be off CD so I can cast it again (1s remaining, so after this incinerate I should hit that next).
Next box - Conflag
This is set up in the same manner as Chaos Bolt.
Next box - Incinerate
This is set up as a debuff on the mob. It shows when and displays the time remaining on the mob.
Right box - Doom
This is set up like incinerate.
Try using this setup. I know people out there swear by Easy Destro, but I have never seen it perform as well as you making decisions in your cast times yourself. Sometimes it is beneficial to wait half of a second to hit something over something else (and I can link WWS to back this up if need be) and I highly doubt Easy Destro will make that distinction.
Before 3.2 I was usually in the top 5 DPS but now I have trouble, I'm not sure if others are just scaling better or if I'm drastically screwing something up.
I feel like I should be able to do a lot more dps with my current gear but I just can't seem to do it. I think my one problem is I'm in a habit of using Conflag before CB if both are up but I don't think that would cost me that much dps and I feel like my hate rating/sp is good enough to be putting out better numbers.
Hodir is very dependand on your positioning and luck. You want to get Storm Cloud buff, be close to the Fire Spot (the one that mage NPC is creating) and if possible to stay in the moonlight (cast by Moonkin NPC). These 3 things together fires you on the top of raid dps very fast.
If you want to compare with others, post other WWS fights that are not so buff dependant.
Also looking at your build... Your build is missing ISL, which probably makes you Life Tap more then needed to keep the buff up, loosing some more time you can spend dpsing.
There should have been data from our TOC 25 man run in that WWS, I'm not sure what happened. Hodir wasnt a good fight for me, I kept dying ><
Since I have the LifeTap glyph, I actually tap every 39-40 secs to keep the buff up. I have no mana issues and from what I've read the LT glyph is superior to the Immolate glyph.
Originally Posted by Antimortem
There are other locks in my guild using Easy Destro. I have never seen those locks fare as well as myself using this mod. Having something tell you what to cast every time will not always tell you to cast the right thing.
./snip
I know people out there swear by Easy Destro, but I have never seen it perform as well as you making decisions in your cast times yourself. Sometimes it is beneficial to wait half of a second to hit something over something else (and I can link WWS to back this up if need be) and I highly doubt Easy Destro will make that distinction.
EDIT: fixed wording
Yeah, easyDestro has it's problems. It doesnt seem to want me to get in two Conflags for every Immolate for example - it tells me to recast Immolate when Conflag is up and ready. So I mostly just use it as a heads up display in the middle of my screen to see which spells are off their cooldowns and when I need to lifetap to keep my glyph buff up. Sounds like that's what TellMeWhen does for you, I'll have to take a look.
Thank you both.
Mebbe this will be a bit better - Ony 10 tonight, in a pug. The shammy and I stayed on Ony during phase 2, everyone else was on the adds. I really feel that I should be doing better DPS.
Before 3.2 I was usually in the top 5 DPS but now I have trouble, I'm not sure if others are just scaling better or if I'm drastically screwing something up.
I feel like I should be able to do a lot more dps with my current gear but I just can't seem to do it. I think my one problem is I'm in a habit of using Conflag before CB if both are up but I don't think that would cost me that much dps and I feel like my hate rating/sp is good enough to be putting out better numbers.
I have noticed that warlocks don't perform well in ToC due to fight mechanics. Mages get Nether Power from Jaraxxus, they can start nuking more intensively with the empowerment buff, easier to switch to new targets and several other minor things like that, aside from the mage buffs. That doesn't mean, however, that you can't improve.
I took the Jaraxxus log as it shows how your rotation works, and is easier to compare to myself.
Incinerate makes up a very low percentage of your total DPS in comparison to me, you even have less incinerate casts than me while my fight was 24 seconds shorter. I also have more conflagrate casts. You also used corruption.
- Were you running after the adds?
I generally don't run after adds unless strictly necessary, they'll come in your range soon enough, so you might as well wait. The objective is getting the boss down with maximum efficiency, it doesn't matter who executes it. make sure the people who have range nuke it and put debuffs up, and don't waste raidDPS trying to run after a mob that's constantly getting away.
- Do you refresh immolate too often?
Remember that spell damage is calculated the second you stop casting, it doesn't matter if immolate drops off while your chaos bolt/incinerate is still flying. Try to get your timing right so you ca cast immolate and it hits only 0.5 sconds after it's dropped off the boss. if it's about to drop off don't forget to conflagrate it, or you'll waste 1.5 seconds that could have been off the conflag CD.
- Do you cast Conflagrate ASAP?
How intensively do you watch your cooldowns? Cast conflagrate ASAP, it does more damage than Chaos bolt and it gets the damage buff up. Always use these 2 the second they're off cooldown, and also while running if possible. Keep CoD up, I noticed you only applied it twice.
- Change your spec
Get ISL, it reduces your amount of life taps and also gets you the glyph of immolate instead of Life tap. There will probably be some hit debuff up from one of your raidmembers.
Once again a discrepancy in your amount of incinerates, you might move too much. Also one missing CoD. Using demonic Teleport can help in this encounter to lessen the amount of time you're not DPSing. Remember DPS in ToC is a lot lower in comparison to other classes than it was in Ulduar. I expect this will return in ICC with the new Demonology buffs and probably better fitting encounters. Just try to get more incinerates in.
You should notice quite a big change in DPS, my gear is worse so I hope you'll show those others!
(This was my latest online report, don't mind beasts and Faction champions, had connection issues at beasts and I solely DPS at FC. Onyxia I had a DC and the mages were whoring with AoE )
We were raiding 25 man Ony tonight. Another Warlock, Darksouls, was in our raid group. Our spell power is very close, within 50 points. However, according to recount, his average damage from incinerate was 11249. Mine was 8857. What could cause such a difference in crit damage.
All righty, I switched to demo for the raid buff since our resident demo lock is no longer raiding. I practiced quite a bit to get used to the rotation, and read the demo thread here for spec and rotation. I think I have things right, but my DPS I feel is too low compared to my gear, however, I think my gear stats are very much heavy on crit instead of balanced between haste and crit.
I do have a few other pieces to shift gear around, what I have for haste are two trinkets (Abyssal Rune and Scale of Fates), a wand (Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians), and Perdition i232. I've been thinking about using Spellstone for all the extra haste since I'm so little to begin with. I'm considering dropping t9 helm and shoulders for emblem helm and shoulders, and with that extra hit drop Dying Curse for Abyssal Rune or Reign of the Dead trinkets. Would that help? What about swapping so SP gems for SP/Haste gems?
Also, here is a screenshot of my UI. I've spent a lot of time organizing things to make my rotation easier and not have to look around all over the place. I open with Life Tap -> Shadow Bolt -> Immo -> Corr -> CoA, I time Meta for other buffs like BL, TwinValks Empowerment, etc or use it when it's off of CD, and finally shadow weaving when under 35%.
I've bound LT to "R", SB to 1, Immo to 2, Corr to 3, CoA to 4, Soul Fire to "T", and macro for Meta/ImmoAura to the "V" key. I'm wondering if this is a good key combination, it feels all right, but I find shadow weaving to be a bit challenging.
Overall I am enjoying demo even though I know it's a lower DPS spec currently, but I feel like I should be doing more and I'm not sure why. I think my low haste is hurting, but I also think my rotation isn't great. Any help would be appreciated.
Last edited by Syrophenikan : 10/17/09 at 11:30 PM.
Just wondering if anyone has an ideas why my conflagrate might be doing a lot less damage than I think it should.
The rest of the numbers seem ok (I hope).
Last nights run was various places (all 25-man):- Ony, VOA, Coliseum (Anub only) and Ulduar(First 3)
Is it purely the lack of immolate glyph? If so I can live with that, but it just feels off at the moment with Sep's Conflag doing over twice what mine is doing.
No, it isn't worth using corruption even with the 4 set bonus. If you're moving just try to fill your movement time with life taps (unless it's dangerous for some reason) and conflagrate, and use corruption if both of these are on CD/not needed/dangerous.
09/17/09, 2:32 PM
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