Warlock WWS Help and Analysis - Page 7

Bessa · 12/23/08, 5:32 PM

On a fight like PW, how much would missing 2-3 gcd reupping that dot you just missed do to your dps? taking into account the gcd wasted on LifeTap, on a movement fight its less noticable, but on a static fight, id notice it.

PS: I always thought Corr+CoA was needed to maintain a ~90% uptime of MC. if you can link the post or direct me to it, where its calculated CoA on its own is enough, id appreciate it, as i can drop it also.

• Zakalwe · 12/23/08, 6:55 PM

What dot takes 2-3 GCDs to reapply? Yes, a dot miss will cause you to lose out one GCD worth of Incinerate spam, which is definitely noticeable. But since I only cast one dot every 28 seconds, it's just not valuable enough for me to avoid that 3% miss chance on it. Like I said, once destro spells are capped, each point of hit rating works out to being worth 0.1-0.2 spell damage, depending on gear level.

And in the same vein, you're to a certain degree right about Corruption and MC. With Corruption and CoA, average MC uptime is around 80%, whereas with only CoA the average uptime is around 62%. But since casting Corruption is such a big DPS loss compared to Incinerate spam, those extra 18% aren't worth it.

Basically you can't keep thinking about things like hit cap and 80-90% MC uptime as absolute goals which you should sacrifice anything to achieve. You need to assign them a certain value and compare them just like any other stat.

Bessa · 12/23/08, 8:26 PM

Then spreadsheet lies i guess, Corruption is not a dps loss over incin spam.

Plugging your gear and spec, add in rotations i get 4194 dps with no Corr, 4299 with, thats 100 dps, without taking into account any glyphs glyphs. With Glyph your looking at 4420 using Corr. which is the highest you can get in your gear/spec.

Again using your own spec/gear, dmg/casttime on your Corr 4761, dpct on Incin 3712, not only that, with the added uptime on MC, your Incin goes from 3642 to 3712 dpct. What your suggesting just doesnt make sense.

Sadly i dont use the simcraft thing, i dont have the attention span to change every single stat to suit my needs.

The previous 2 posts are the only time in the last 2 month, that ive read Corr being a dps loss.

• Zakalwe · 12/23/08, 11:09 PM

The spreadsheet is riddled with bugs at the moment - I'd be much more inclined to trust Simulationcraft. If you don't have the attention span for it, nor the willingness to trust someone who does, I can't help you.

DPCT of 4761 on Corruption as 0/41/30 is certainly way outside the realm of any possibility. Last week I hadn't yet realized that I shouldn't be casting Corruption, and my WWS from Patchwerk shows my Corruption did around 3k DPCT: Wow Web Stats

I will point out one thing which makes it hard to compare spreadsheets and Simulationcraft: The latter specifically models instant casts with a separate and higher lag penalty, since you can't queue them up the way you can with spells that do have a cast time. That may account for some of the discrepancy.

But those DPCT numbers seem off regardless.

Bessa · 12/24/08, 6:52 AM

Hmm, still not convinced, everything ive read always says Corr is a dps increase, increasing the dpct on incin through MC seems a good thing, will give your thoughts a try on next PW try, see if it holds weight or not. If you got wws reports to show that your dps increased by dropping it, would help also.

Andanas · 12/24/08, 10:27 AM

Wow Web Stats
The World of Warcraft Armory

This parse is from our Sartharion raid with 2 Drakes up. I could really use some advice on getting my DPS up. For the entire run, I was near the bottom of the DPS'ers with about 2400 DPS. I was getting that with only self buffs on the dummies in IF. I know Sartharion is a movement fight, but shouldn't I see more DPS with the raid buffs?

I don't know if it's my gear, my spec, my rotation or a combination of the three. My rotation, at the very start of the fight, is to CoD, Corr, Imm, Incin. spam Sath until Tenebron lands. Then I start on Tenebron with CoA, Corr, Imm, Incin spam. Refreshing as needed, and trying to keep CoD up on Sartharion. Repeat for Drake number two, SoC'ing adds in between.

For the entire run I had my imp on passive. Otherwise I find myself spending more time either re-summoning him, or keeping him alive. I have Demonic Sacrifice, but losing 5% crit to fire, and some SP made it seem like sacrificing the imp would be a DPS loss.

Bessa · 12/24/08, 11:00 AM

It IS a dps loss, but having to micro manage your pet aswell as dodge void zones or flame walls, i feel it easier to just sacrifice it and take the 10% more dmg on my spells, granted i lose about 500 dps, but it makes your job alot less stressful and more time to concentrate on rotations.

Krazen · 12/24/08, 1:09 PM

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Full run as conflag/chaos bolt, mostly what I consider lackluster results. I did have no sham/moonkin, didn't food buff much, and such, but I don't think I made many playing mistakes.

Backdraft isn't getting me any more primary (incin/CB) casts than simply not using conflag, really.

You could drop immolate there after conflag, and use it later, but that delays your next conflag if you wait for the 3 seconds left on the timer.

Add that to the fact that backdraft is unusable during heroism, and I think there needs to be some changes.

Blacksen · 12/24/08, 4:18 PM

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Would love more feedback. I didn't realize that the infernal lasted only a minute, so I dropped it way too early. I also got the Sartharion gloves tonight. I'm running with 55/0/16, Glyphs are Immolate, SL, and corruption.

Dramah · 12/24/08, 5:29 PM

I'm looking to find some data on meta/ruin. Does anyone have a current WWS paraphrase from 10/25 Nax with that spec?

Soulreign · 12/24/08, 6:16 PM

Sure,

5164 DPS on Patchwerk 25 by Nukez:

Wow Web Stats

Andanas · 12/24/08, 9:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bessa

It IS a dps loss, but having to micro manage your pet aswell as dodge void zones or flame walls, i feel it easier to just sacrifice it and take the 10% more dmg on my spells, granted i lose about 500 dps, but it makes your job alot less stressful and more time to concentrate on rotations.

But what's worse, leaving it on passive, or sacrificing it? As long as it's on passive there's nothing to micro-manage. As long as I stay out of void zones & fire walls, it'll just follow me.

But was having the imp on passive the main reason for my low DPS?

• Zakalwe · 12/24/08, 10:47 PM

If you have Demonic Knowledge, keep it on passive. If you don't, sacrifice it.

dcpwns · 12/25/08, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by Soulreign

Sure,

5164 DPS on Patchwerk 25 by Nukez:

Wow Web Stats

Omg at the time of kill. So i hit 4900 on patch lasting near 4:20 with no flask and food buff.Would it be safe to say if we as a guild killed him faster my dps would have hit higher? Like I'm wondering how much of a time decrease would be a dmg increase. Also what one pot are people using on patch? Was thinking the spell crit and spell dmg pot that last for like 15 secs during a bloodlust? Also any locks con a druid into a intervate? With it joking around i had over 2k mana regen on some boss fight.

Liania · 12/25/08, 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by Andanas

But what's worse, leaving it on passive, or sacrificing it? As long as it's on passive there's nothing to micro-manage. As long as I stay out of void zones & fire walls, it'll just follow me.

But was having the imp on passive the main reason for my low DPS?

Managing your pet on sarth 2/3 drakes arent that hard really, it takes some getting use to but shouldnt cause much trouble, just remind yourself that everytime theres a wave coming you switch it to passive and when its gone you set it to attack again, pets can survive void zones and even then its rare they actually stand in one.

Its harder yes, but in the end much more dps.

Wow Web Stats

Nights worth of practise on sarth 2 drakes. Anyway I had my felguard out the hole night I think and it only died like twice or something.

Destruction rotation is so easy you can do it blindfolded anyway.

*EDIT* Btw, is there anyone here with a wws of a 3d sarth kill as affliction?

Christlock · 12/26/08, 2:14 PM

I can't really understand where the items scale, or what stats that is scaleing the most.

I have some new items but I have around 1.5k unbuffed with 200~ haste and 300+/- hit rating, and still only do 3k,3,3k on patchwerk 10man.

Spec: 41/30

How can you go up +2k dps with a only a few more equipment boosts?

Warlocomotif · 12/26/08, 3:52 PM

I'm currently trying to crunch some numbers to get a rough DPS value of 'the next stat' in 0/31/40 spec.
I'm using a WWS on patchwerk to work from, however am missing a little bit of info; mostly I'm missing info on how stats effect my pet; and how my pets stats scale back to me through 1/3 demonic knowledge.

Past that, the value of +crit seems really, really low compared to the value of +dmg/+haste.
The methods I'm using atm are:
Spellpower; list all spells casted and how many times they were casted or ticked. Multiply the extra spellpower (10) by the spellpower coefficient and all relavant multipliers.
Crit: Take each spell that can crit, take the percentage of non-crit dmg (ie: 55%), and reduce it by (extra crit/45.91), then take the percentage of crit damage (ie: 45%) and increase it by (extra crut/45.91).
Haste: Calculate the relative cast speed increase by taking haste+haste buffs+increased haste and devide it by haste+haste buffs. Multiply the relative cast speed increase by the total time spent casting to find the increased cast time available and calculate how much of a filler (incinerate) you couldv casted in that time. Multiply that by the average damage of incinerate.

The results im getting are:
+10 spellpower=+11.17dps
+10 crit ratung=+5.34dps
+10 haste rating=10.10dps

My question is, does anything seem entirely wrong about the method I'm using? Because the increased crit damage just seems strange.

Incinerate
- 78 Casts, 35 crits (45%)

Imps Firebolt
- 93 Casts, 23 crits (25%)

Immolate
- 13 Casts, 8 crits (62%)
- 54 ticks

Corruption:
- 55 Ticks

Curse of Agony:
- 87 Ticks

Lifetap:
- 7 Casts

Modifiers:
- Earth and Moon 13%
- Sanctified Retribution: 3%
- Molten core: 10% fire, 89.5% uptime
- Master demonologist: 5% fire
- Emberstorm: 15% fire
- Shadow and Flame: 20% spellpower incinerate
- Glyph of Immo; +20% on dot, -10% on dd
- imp immo: +30% on dd

Other:
- Wrath of Air: 5% haste
- swift retribution: 3%
- gear: 15.55%

Talents:
- Demonic Aegis, 39% spirit=spellpower

---

Spellpower modifiers:
- Corruption dot: 0.2
- Immolate dot: 0.2
- Immolate DD: 20%
- CoA: 0.1
- Incinerate: 74.43

-------------------------

10 Spellpower=
- Incin: 10 * 78 * 0.7443 * 1.2 * 1.13 * 1.03 * 1.0895 * 1.05 * 1.15 = 1066.7
- Incin crit: 10 * 35 * 1.09 * 0.7443 * 1.2 * 1.13 * 1.03 * 1.0895 * 1.05 * 1.15 = 521.7
- Immmo: 10 * 13 * 0.2 * 1.13 * 1.03 * 1.0895 * 1.05 * 1.15 * 1.3 * 0.9 = 41.4
- Immo crit: 10 * 8 * 0.2 * 1.09 * 1.13 * 1.03 * 10.895 * 1.05 * 1.15 * 1.3 * 0.9 = 31.2
- Immo dot: 10 * 54 * 0.2 * 1.13 * 1.03 * 1.0895 * 1.05 * 1.15 * 1.2 = 198.4
- COrruption: 10 * 55 * 0.2 * 1.13 * 1.03 = 128
- CoA: 10 * 87 * 0.1 * 1.13 * 1.03 = 101.3
--- Total: 2088.7
--- DPS: 2088.7/187=11.17

-------------------------

10 crit rating=
(45.91crit=1%, 10crit=0.2178%)
- Incin crit%: 44.8718 (55.1282% non crit)
- Incin avg hit: 4975
- Incin avg crit: 10481
- Incin hit total: 213925
- Incin crit total: 366835
- Immol crit%: 61.5384 (38.4616% non crit)
- Immol avg hit: 1689
- Immol avg crit: 3908
- Immol hit total: 8445
- Immol crit total: 31264
* after +10crit *
- Incin hit:  (54.9104%), 213925/55.1282*54.9104=213079.83 (- 845.17)
- Incin crit: (45.0896%), 366835/44.8718*45.0896=368615.55 (+1780.55)
- Immol hit:  (38.2438%), 8445/38.4616*38.2438=8397.17     (-  47.87)
- Immol crit: (61.7562%), 31264/61.5384*61.7562=31374.65   (+ 110.65)
* total dmg increase *
31374.65+8397.17+368615.55+213079.83-31264-8445-366835-213925=998.2
--- Total: 998.2
--- DPS: 998.2/187=5.34

-------------------------

+10 Haste rating=
(32.79haste=1%, 10haste=0.3050%)
- Haste before: 23.55%
- Haste After:  23.855%
- Cast speed increase: (123.855/123.55)-1=0.00247
- 78x Incin
- 13x Immo
- 10x Corr
-  7x CoA
-  7x LifeTap
- Cast time=78*2.25+((13+10+7+7)*1.5)=231
- Cast time saved by haste=231*0.00247=0.57057s
- Filler=Incinerate, @avg 7446.282 dmg, 2.25s
- extra dmg = 7446.282/2.25*0.57057=1888.28
--- Total: 1888.28
--- DPS: 1888.28/187=10.10

-------------------------

+10 Hit rating=
-If you are gem for the hitcap, that essentially means that getting 16 hit rating on gear grants you 19 spellpower in gems elsewhere. Likewise if you lose 16 hit rating from gear you lose a 19 spellpower gem somewhere. This isn't always accurate; but it should give you a more "real-world" number then actually going for the DPS value of hit pre-hit cap.
- 10 hit rating=11.17/16*19=13.26
--- DPS: 13.26

-------------------------

+10 MP5
- 7 Lifetaps were casted
- Average lifetap = 3532 Mana.
- Fight lasted 187 seconds;
- To gain 1 lifetap worth of mana through MP5 I would need:
- 3532/(187/5)=94.44
- If 94.44 MP5 saves me 1 GCD, 10 MP5 saves me 0.105887 Lifetap- or 0.1588 seconds.
- In 0.1588 Seconds I could cast 0.1588/(2.25/(1+15.55+5+3))=0.087 Incinerate
- Incinerate average damage is 7446.282, which gives me 649.434 damage.
--- Total: 649.43
--- DPS: 3.47

-------------------------

+10 Int
(166.6667 Int=1% crit, 10 Int=0.06% crit)
(10Int=10*1.1*15*1.03=170 Mana)
(0.2178% crit=5.34 DPS, 0.06% crit=1.471 DPS
- 170 Mana=0.0481 Lifetap=0.0584 Seconds=0.032 Incinerate=238.933 dmg
--- Total: 514.01
--- DPS: 2.75

-------------------------

+10 Spirit
(10 Spirit+Kings=11 spirit=4.29 Spellpower=896.05 dmg=4.79 dps)
- Avg Lifetap before: 3532 Mana
- Avg Lifetap After: 3565 Mana
- 7 Before lifetaps=24724 Mana
- 24724 Mana=6.9352 After Lifetaps
- 0.064797 Lifetaps saved
- 0.0786685 Seconds saved
- 0.0431977 Incinerates gained
- 321.66 Dmg gained
--- Total: 1217.71
--- DPS: 6.51

I haven't really gotten around to calculating any of the other stats, and here's a link to the WWS I used: link

[edited to include the dps value of hit, mp5, int, spi]

turturin · 12/26/08, 5:26 PM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

I'm currently trying to crunch some numbers to get a rough DPS value of 'the next stat' in 0/31/40 spec.
I'm using a WWS on patchwerk to work from, however am missing a little bit of info; mostly I'm missing info on how stats effect my pet; and how my pets stats scale back to me through 1/3 demonic knowledge.

Past that, the value of +crit seems really, really low compared to the value of +dmg/+haste.
The methods I'm using atm are:
Spellpower; list all spells casted and how many times they were casted or ticked. Multiply the extra spellpower (10) by the spellpower coefficient and all relavant multipliers.
Crit: Take each spell that can crit, take the percentage of non-crit dmg (ie: 55%), and reduce it by (extra crit/45.91), then take the percentage of crit damage (ie: 45%) and increase it by (extra crut/45.91).
Haste: Calculate the relative cast speed increase by taking haste+haste buffs+increased haste and devide it by haste+haste buffs. Multiply the relative cast speed increase by the total time spent casting to find the increased cast time available and calculate how much of a filler (incinerate) you couldv casted in that time. Multiply that by the average damage of incinerate.

The results im getting are:
+10 spellpower=+11.17dps
+10 crit ratung=+5.34dps
+10 haste rating=10.10dps

My question is, does anything seem entirely wrong about the method I'm using? Because the increased crit damage just seems strange.

I haven't really gotten around to calculating any of the other stats, and here's a link to the WWS I used: link

I don't know if your numbers are right, but they don't seem strange. They seem (for lack of a better word) reasonable given how much crit rating you need for 1% crit.

krilz · 12/27/08, 6:03 AM

Originally Posted by Christlock

I can't really understand where the items scale, or what stats that is scaleing the most.

I have some new items but I have around 1.5k unbuffed with 200~ haste and 300+/- hit rating, and still only do 3k,3,3k on patchwerk 10man.

Spec: 41/30

How can you go up +2k dps with a only a few more equipment boosts?

It's not only "a few more equipment boosts" but if the entire raid performs well and shortens the kill, everyone benefit from it with a higher DPS. Also, most of them use a deep affliction build which is the best one in-game for warlocks during boss encounters. And of course if they flask or not, use special potions during fights, how many times trinket procs, if they Bloodlust or not, if you're using the Infernal, there are many factors here.

Kabale · 12/28/08, 6:54 AM

*EDIT* Btw, is there anyone here with a wws of a 3d sarth kill as affliction?

Wow Web Stats

Not sure how valuable it is, most of the damage comes from aoeing anyway.

FalseMyrmidon · 01/04/09, 5:44 AM

Anyone care to critique my Patchwerk WWS from 10 man Naxx?
Wow Web Stats

Armory
The World of Warcraft Armory

Evyle · 01/04/09, 12:15 PM

Ok here is some things to consider when using them

Infernal is a fast summon and you can plop it down for about any boss fight.
Doomguard has to be summoned before the boss and it can possibly last multiple bosses. With that think of how your pet will last from one boss to the next - If you use doomguard on patchwork will he live playing frogger. Also for the next boss going thru the green tunnel often a pet can bug out and not come down/

If your having problems with your pet taking hateful strike I think that ability is based on health. So the top health guy in melee besides the tank gets hit. For doomguard ask to not have fort placed on him for that fight (maybe not even kings).

I will often use my infernal for the last minute or so of patchwork. Also if my pet dies during a boss fight I will also usually summon him on in (for a non demo spec lock its about a 1.5 sec or so summon vs the 9+ seconds for another fel hunter).

Bloodlust - I think the tricky part here Is dropping that Infernal before bloodlust is cast for the fight. Often shaman are asked to hold bloodlust till the last 35%... but 35% is not always 1 minute left in the fight. So it can be a bit of a judgement call.

dcpwns · 01/04/09, 12:46 PM

How accurate is the other site like wowwebstats. I can't remember the name atm but I was checking out follow realm locks and I saw one with less uptime on dots then me but more Sb hits and one more souldrain tick then me on a fight he killed him 20secs faster as a guild.His dps was like 700dps more then mine. So really wondering if the website is accurate then is refreshing dots sub 25% that important when your in the low 10% if you have other locks?

Smurrf · 01/04/09, 2:01 PM

I've been tasked with helping a fellow lock figure out how to improve. Trouble is, I've never been that good at the destro side of the house, and the only thing I can come up with by looking at the reports is perhaps low cast count per encounter. Could someone with more expertise on Destruction than myself take a look and see what could be improved for Galxey in the parses below? (If any afflocks have anything to add on my own account, I won't mind that either.) The Thaddius attempt is linked because it was the subject of the most discussion during the run, as we had to pass him up and move on.

Full run
Best Thaddius attempt

I also have our first night in there, as well. Patchwerk linked just to eliminate the movement factor.
Full run
Patch kill

Galxey's Armory sheet

Much thanks in advance.

Ygidorp · 01/04/09, 6:58 PM

Did the following run today.

Wow Web Stats

Here's the video of the PW kill

YouTube - Patchwerk kill by CoX, EU Neptulon, Affliction lock

Any suggestions to rotation, gear or likewise are appreciated. I forgot to use inferno at 40%, that I know. Doomguard was on cooldown.