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Old 03/06/09, 9:07 AM   #101
VenomByte
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Bronze Dragonflight (EU)
- 288 hitrating, 1 points under the 289 in the startpost, but I would gain 9 spellpower
- 296 hitrating, 7 points over the 289 in the startpost, but I would not gain the 9 spellpower
Given that 288 will give you 10.978% hit chance, you're looking at 99.978% overall (assuming talent & raid hit bonuses). This means you'll miss about one spell in 5000. The extra 9 spellpower would likely give you somewhere around 0.3% dps increase raidbuffed. That is not much, but it's far more than you'll lose from missing every 5000th spell. On the basis of that, I would suggest you go with the extra spellpower.

In all honesty though, we're talking about numbers here which are far smaller than the margin of error of casting a few spells. It's not really going to make a whole lot of difference either way.

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Old 03/10/09, 9:35 PM   #102
Yeda
Von Kaiser
 
Yeda's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Dragonmaw (EU)
[EDIT: VenomByte beat me to it ]

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Old 03/11/09, 12:44 PM   #103
angaroth
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
With what precision does it calculate hit?

A number cruncher friend of mine implied some sort of quantum effect going on i.e. 99.0001-100% hit = 1% miss rate, 98.0001-99% hit = 2% miss rate but reading this thread I am lead to believe that even if that once was the case it no longer is.

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Old 03/11/09, 2:58 PM   #104
Prayformercy
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Durotan
Has there been any definite conclusion as to wether it is better to spec for dps and gem for hit, or spec for hit and gem for spell power?

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Old 03/11/09, 3:47 PM   #105
angaroth
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
My understanding is you always gem for dps. Spec for hit until it comes naturally with gear and then spec out.

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Old 03/11/09, 7:57 PM   #106
vaestmanaeyjar
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Mazrigos (EU)
I only gemmed and enchanted for hit when I started raiding in blue and greens that didn't have any. AFAIK you can pretty much drop a 19 SP in every slot when you are closer to cap, which isn't too difficult once you start getting 10 man items. Socketing bonuses providing SP do not grant enough to warrant gemming anything else.

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Old 03/11/09, 11:03 PM   #107
zerdell
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by angaroth View Post
Spec for hit until it comes naturally with gear and then spec out.
It really depends upon your spec. If you're planning to go meta raid buff (pact & isb) in 3.1, you may as well just gem for the hit now, as you won't have spare talent points for suppression.

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Old 03/14/09, 11:06 AM   #108
Prayformercy
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Durotan
Im planning to stay affliction for 3.1 and see how well it holds up untill i make any changes.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Thats a link to my warlocks current armory. So for this spec i should regem for spell damage, see where i sit as far as hit goes, and respec accordingly grabbing extra hit talents where needed?

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Old 03/16/09, 10:01 AM   #109
vaestmanaeyjar
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Mazrigos (EU)
You currently are over 17% cap, that's assuming your raid has neither SP nor Boomkin nor a single draenei ? Take this into account when calculating your needs relating to hit bonuses. In an optimal raid setting you only need personal 13% from items +talents. (14% horde side...). that's a lot of room for +SP gems, and if you ever happen to be in a 10 man raid without the extra bonuses, who cares anyway about 10 man content difficulty, you're going to beat it even missing 3% to hit.
Second point is, not taking to hit via talents is nice, to the point where you check what you can buy with said points. Fel concentration is very "meh" and not worth it. You don't even need it for farming anymore.

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Old 03/16/09, 11:58 AM   #110
angaroth
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by angaroth View Post
With what precision does it calculate hit?

A number cruncher friend of mine implied some sort of quantum effect going on i.e. 99.0001-100% hit = 1% miss rate, 98.0001-99% hit = 2% miss rate but reading this thread I am lead to believe that even if that once was the case it no longer is.
Any takers?

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Old 03/16/09, 1:16 PM   #111
Trickykid
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by angaroth View Post
Any takers?
Current understanding is that it's linear. 99.5% to hit means 0.5% to miss. The easiest way to test this would be to put 1 hit rating shy of the cap and spam a dummy until you have a very large sample size. Getting statistical significance between those two will take a while.

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Old 03/17/09, 6:39 AM   #112
Kana
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Dark Iron
It seems silly to have the default ragdoll calculate hit % to a hundredth of a percent if the game's just going to round the real % down to the nearest whole number.

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Old 03/17/09, 10:33 AM   #113
Prayformercy
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Durotan
Originally Posted by vaestmanaeyjar View Post
You currently are over 17% cap, that's assuming your raid has neither SP nor Boomkin nor a single draenei ? Take this into account when calculating your needs relating to hit bonuses. In an optimal raid setting you only need personal 13% from items +talents. (14% horde side...). that's a lot of room for +SP gems, and if you ever happen to be in a 10 man raid without the extra bonuses, who cares anyway about 10 man content difficulty, you're going to beat it even missing 3% to hit.
Second point is, not taking to hit via talents is nice, to the point where you check what you can buy with said points. Fel concentration is very "meh" and not worth it. You don't even need it for farming anymore.
I appreciate the advice. The reason i was going for the 17% hit cap is because my actual raiding guild transfered off my server but i opted not to go with them. This being said I'm not raiding with any set guild anymore, generally pugs and raiding guilds i have friends with so i figured Id try to be prepared for the worst situation. Ill look into redoing my spec without the fel concentraition and respeccing for hit rather then gemming for it.

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Old 03/26/09, 9:16 AM   #114
Zasz
Von Kaiser
 
Zasz's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Arygos (EU)
I wonder why most ppl take the kirin tor head enchant instead of the old shatar enchant if they are short on hit. The loss of 8 spellpower is minimal compared to the gain of hit.

I say destroy the cosmos and ask questions later!

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Old 03/26/09, 10:00 AM   #115
Benadect
Glass Joe
 
Benadect's Avatar
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Blackwater Raiders
Originally Posted by Zasz View Post
I wonder why most ppl take the kirin tor head enchant instead of the old shatar enchant if they are short on hit. The loss of 8 spellpower is minimal compared to the gain of hit.
excuse my "noobness" but when enchantment is that again?

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Old 03/26/09, 10:58 AM   #116
Eruantien
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Warlock
 
Aggramar (EU)
The Sha'tar one was Arcanum of Power. 22 spellpower and 14 hit rating, I think.

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Old 03/28/09, 2:29 AM   #117
zeroavix
Glass Joe
 
zeroavix's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Arthas
Originally Posted by Eruantien View Post
The Sha'tar one was Arcanum of Power. 22 spellpower and 14 hit rating, I think.
It's currently what I have been using, though I think I'm going to switch to the Kirin Tor enchant now that I got my new neck.

But honestly, instead of geming for hit, that's a much better option, atleast imo.

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Old 03/28/09, 2:58 AM   #118
Drasil
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Kil'Jaeden
The Arcanum of Power is only better if you value spellpower 2.3 times more than crit.

Arcanum of Power - Arcanum of Burning Mysteries =
8 spellpower
20 crit
-14 hit (equivalent to -16.625 spellpower if you gem or gear correctly)

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Old 03/28/09, 3:33 AM   #119
Bergtau
Von Kaiser
 
Bergtau's Avatar
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by angaroth View Post
Any takers?
I believe the game rounds out numbers 2-3 decimal digits out, but I'm not positive.

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Old 03/28/09, 5:13 AM   #120
Edenfall
Banned
 
Tauren Druid
 
Ragnaros (EU)
Talents

53/0/18 Suppression + Cataclysm
53/0/15 Malediction + 3

Talent spec > * (I dare say) This is not a conclusion, but my way of thinking. I assume this is correct, or near the best.

It should be obvious which of the above specs are superior, if one has the chance to cap hit outside the talent tree.
The last three points can either be spent for optimizing some minor damage, or spec flexibility - like waiting with spending the three talent points until you know what situation your raid is in.



Hit Chance & Probability

If there is a 10% chance to be hit by a vechicle if you run blindfolded accross a highway, you might as well be hit all the times. It is more correct to say: In 10% of the possible cases... And only if this game runs a static or smart Diminishing Returns on hit/miss, we can say that the probability is being taken care of and reassured by the game itself, making it statistically reliable.

However, while there is probability, there can only be reliability in 100%
Reliability CAN be somewhat priceless. It cannot be valued, but you can cap hit for precaution. Capping hit all the way to the 100% (yes, I know the cap is 17%) is preparing for the really shit timed misses, and possible multiple misses. Those of us who were hit capped -1% in TBC have probably all lived to see the magical 3-misses-in-a-row.

Probability is not reliable, and may as well be just as UNprobable if there is no Diminishing Returns.

I have only read Pages 1,2 & 5 so far, when making this post.



Edit:
Reliability also somewhat requires your Hit Rating to be kept away from consumables, buffs and debuffs. If you die during an encounter (be it trash or a boss) you might save the day by being hit capped when resurrected. And maybe the 3% hit debuffer is dead at some point - shit does happen.



Edit:
Let's say you have 99% chance to hit. You will do about 100 spellcasts during the encounter. Statistically, 1 of these spells will miss. However, probability does not play within the same time-limit that you are. If 2 of your spells miss, you don't have time to change the encounter so that you may do 200 spellcasts. You lost 1% DPS. And even if you get the chance to do 200 spellcasts during the encounter, there are then 100 more spellcasts that may miss. Without (or even with) Diminishing Returns, all your 1-200 spellcasts can in theory miss. This is theorycrafting.

Last edited by Edenfall : 03/28/09 at 9:47 AM.

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Old 03/30/09, 9:04 PM   #121
Kana
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Dark Iron
Why do you take fel concentration instead of malediction? It's obvious which spec is superior if you go out of your way to make one of them bad. The question with the hit talents is whether or not your gear makes your DPS higher by gearing for 17% hit, or by gearing for 13/14 percent.

I don't really understand what point you're trying to make with the rest of that post.

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Old 04/10/09, 1:40 PM   #122
Marklar
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
I believe the game rounds out numbers 2-3 decimal digits out, but I'm not positive.
Computer programs don't generally use decimal digits internally. The game will most likely stick the value in a 4 or 8 byte floating point variable. A 4 byte single precision float will have precision comparable to 6 decimal significant digits.

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Old 04/20/09, 11:37 AM   #123
Shigure
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
Ok guys i think my aff warlock is Hit Capped since i have 436 hit (16.62%) +1 point on supression, still while hitting the boss test dummy i don't miss any curse or spell but it still resistes some damage of them. Is this normal or did hit cap changed in 3.1?

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Old 04/20/09, 11:45 AM   #124
Talimar
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Nagrand (EU)
Partial resists will always be there due to the level difference between us and the boss. Nothing can be done about it I'm afraid.

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Old 05/17/09, 5:03 AM   #125
Nyriune
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Velen
3.1 pvp

Redirect me if possible to a more accurate topic, but post 3.1 I have found that many more of my fears and casts are missing in pvp. The biggest issue being my fear fails, obviously there are many things to negate fearing but there are times when it just says miss, admittedly I haven't checked any logs to totally confirm this. So question being is there more hit rating required in pvp now post 3.1, or should I start looking into things like spell penetration?

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