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Old 12/16/08, 4:55 PM   #136
 Nicarras
Keyboard Cowboy
 
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Undead Priest
 
Illidan
In the first post you have

'CoA or CoD? CoD.'

That last D should be an A

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Old 12/17/08, 12:57 AM   #137
Melbuframa
Don Flamenco
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Ner'zhul
I figured id post this here as this thread has helped me immensely. It’s arguable that Patchwrek not being the best benchmark for DPS but it’s what most people use. I feel the spec can do more, especially if you get to the point where you can spec out of both of the +hit talents opening up some more goodies.
This is pretty much on with what Simcraft was saying about the different specs, it will be interesting to see Destro molded again with the changes they made in this patch.

Spec and Gear as it appears in the armory right now.
5682 DPS Wow Web Stats I was only in for Anub and Abomb wing today as i sat so others could get gear.

I’m kind of annoyed our other locks don’t currently pull the DPS I think they should, I really would like to figure out if Shadow Embrace is indeed bugged. Some say yes some say no.

Last edited by Melbuframa : 12/17/08 at 10:12 AM.

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Old 12/17/08, 5:26 AM   #138
Claster
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Melbuframa View Post
Spec and Gear as it appears in the armory right now.
5682 DPS Wow Web Stats I was only in for Anub and Abomb wing today as i sat so others could get gear.
Amazing numbers you have pulled there. Here is mine for comparison -> WWS

As you see, I am 1000dps behind you. Our gears can't be compared, since I had almost 200 spell power less when the WWS was recorded, than what I have now (Currently have about same sp as you do).

What buggers me the most is the huge difference of the Shadow Bolt and Drain Soul damage between our WWS parses.
My average DS tick 8768, yours 11032. 200 spell power difference can't explain that, or can it? Is there some huge difference between our raid setup that explains this?

P.S. I know, I clipped the Immolate which caused the low amount of ticks.

Edit: Bah, stupid me. It must be the other affliction lock that you had in your raid. The other lock in our raid was destro.

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Old 12/17/08, 5:56 AM   #139
Namnalia
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Warlock
 
Blackmoore (EU)
Changed the part about Eradication - The numbers were wrong for some strange reason. I guess the results now match the experience most players had with this talent.

New version:

How much haste is Eradication?

Time starts, corruption ticks for the first time.
There is a 4/7/10% chance of an eradication proc. This gives 20% haste right now for 12s, and the game starts again at
30s. this is an average 20%*12s/30s = 8% haste. The probability of this actually happening is 4/7/10%, depending on the talent points spent.

96/93/90% of the time, it didn't proc.
3 seconds later there is another corruption tick. The above game starts again, but the benefit is only
20%*12s/33s = 7,27% haste as you had 3 seconds without additional haste before the proc.

So you simply sum up the average benefits, breaking it up somewhere (e.g. the probability of not getting a proc 60 times in a row is only 1/1000, so I ignore these).

average haste benefit = 0.1*(20%*12/30) + 0.1*0.9*(20%*12/33) + 0.1*0.9^2*(20%*12/36)+...
I won't write 60 terms here, the result is :
1 talent point : 3.28% haste
2 talent points: 4.18% haste
3 talent points: 4.69% haste.
So the first talent point effectively gives you more than 3% haste, the next one gives 0.9% and the last one about 0.5% absolute haste. Although 0.5% haste is not that bad, there are stronger talents available.

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Old 12/17/08, 11:06 AM   #140
duhwhat
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Area 52
Any thoughts on practical DPS loss of letting Haunt fall off? I've gotten in the habit of -always- clipping Haunt by casting it as soon as the cool down is up to ensure as close to 100% uptime as possible. The cooldown coming off gives you a 4 second window to reapply Haunt. Factoring in reaction time, cast time, and flight time for the Haunt projectile I estimate I'm clipping around 2 seconds. Is getting in a DoT refresh in that window instead of clipping Haunt a significant DPS upgrade, at the risk of losing your 20% debuff for a second or two?

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Old 12/17/08, 11:33 AM   #141
 Nicarras
Keyboard Cowboy
 
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Undead Priest
 
Illidan
Never cast Haunt on CD....

Cast it like other Dots, plan it to land as it expires on the target. Taking into consideration the time left on your Corruption.

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Old 12/17/08, 11:48 AM   #142
Shocktar
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by Nicarras View Post
Never cast Haunt on CD....

Cast it like other Dots, plan it to land as it expires on the target. Taking into consideration the time left on your Corruption.
I disagree. Haunt's travel time, combined with the potential loss in corruption ticks (and the GCD spent reapplying it) makes it more than worthwhile to refresh it when you have an optimal instant in your current cycle to refresh it. Remember, Haunt is not a DoT, it's technically direct damage, so you lose no 'ticks' from refreshing it. What is lost is the opportunity cost of casting something else (in the situation I brought up, it's (1.5/2.5) of another shadowbolt with no haste). When you take into account that shadowbolt is your lowest DPCT spell, the loss of DPS with a tick of every other DoT non Haunt-ed, and the healing it gives you, it would seem that Haunt is in fact the BEST spell to clip if you have to. Obviously in a perfect rotation, you'd have haunt land .01 seconds after it expires, but if you've got to clip something, clip haunt.

Gear is how hard you hit. Skill is how often you hit.
http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...tealth5325.png

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Old 12/17/08, 11:54 AM   #143
dcpwns
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Arthas
Originally Posted by Claster View Post
Amazing numbers you have pulled there. Here is mine for comparison -> WWS

As you see, I am 1000dps behind you. Our gears can't be compared, since I had almost 200 spell power less when the WWS was recorded, than what I have now (Currently have about same sp as you do).

What buggers me the most is the huge difference of the Shadow Bolt and Drain Soul damage between our WWS parses.
My average DS tick 8768, yours 11032. 200 spell power difference can't explain that, or can it? Is there some huge difference between our raid setup that explains this?

P.S. I know, I clipped the Immolate which caused the low amount of ticks.

Edit: Bah, stupid me. It must be the other affliction lock that you had in your raid. The other lock in our raid was destro.
Even so his other locks in his raid have their DS ticks like 2k+ lower then his.I can't think of how this would happen.On top of that I have as much SP as him and I don't see DS ticks on avg that high.

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Old 12/17/08, 12:02 PM   #144
rutiene
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by Melbuframa View Post
I figured id post this here as this thread has helped me immensely. It’s arguable that Patchwrek not being the best benchmark for DPS but it’s what most people use. I feel the spec can do more, especially if you get to the point where you can spec out of both of the +hit talents opening up some more goodies.
This is pretty much on with what Simcraft was saying about the different specs, it will be interesting to see Destro molded again with the changes they made in this patch.

Spec and Gear as it appears in the armory right now.
5682 DPS Wow Web Stats I was only in for Anub and Abomb wing today as i sat so others could get gear.

I’m kind of annoyed our other locks don’t currently pull the DPS I think they should, I really would like to figure out if Shadow Embrace is indeed bugged. Some say yes some say no.
The one person who said it wasn't bugged has retracted their statement.

Your other lock has very low DoT uptimes and is using a Felhunter. So I agree that they're not doing as well as they should. But I noticed something strange, he's also doing 3.9k DPS which the other lock in my guild is doing, with far better uptimes and about the same gear. [scratch the rest cause I was stupid and compared his Max to my Average]

Last edited by rutiene : 12/17/08 at 12:12 PM.

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Old 12/17/08, 12:22 PM   #145
Melbuframa
Don Flamenco
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Ner'zhul
Thanks for the clarification on the SE statement.

That raid was the first time we had both a Moonkin Druid and an Ele Shaman (I was in Ele group) other then that I don’t think I had anything other then the standard buffs (Flask, Spell damage food, Spellstone,...) and then what mages Sps and DKs put up however the addition of both an ele shaman and boomkin is amazing. I also dropped the infernal, but even without him I still would have been well over 5k. The discrepancy in WWS between two different locks in very similar gear is something that I also want to look into this weekend to see if something else is going on other then simply player skill or bad RNG luck.

dcpwns: The only explanation on my DS ticks that I can offer is trinkets, I know for a fact that I used my racial (trinket) before DSing and if Dying Curse proced then there’s another 700 spell power added to the calc for it.

I will look at WWS’s posted when I get home and offer comments if I can. The site is blocked from where I work

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Old 12/17/08, 12:31 PM   #146
 Nicarras
Keyboard Cowboy
 
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Undead Priest
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Shocktar View Post
I disagree. Haunt's travel time, combined with the potential loss in corruption ticks (and the GCD spent reapplying it) makes it more than worthwhile to refresh it when you have an optimal instant in your current cycle to refresh it. Remember, Haunt is not a DoT, it's technically direct damage, so you lose no 'ticks' from refreshing it. What is lost is the opportunity cost of casting something else (in the situation I brought up, it's (1.5/2.5) of another shadowbolt with no haste). When you take into account that shadowbolt is your lowest DPCT spell, the loss of DPS with a tick of every other DoT non Haunt-ed, and the healing it gives you, it would seem that Haunt is in fact the BEST spell to clip if you have to. Obviously in a perfect rotation, you'd have haunt land .01 seconds after it expires, but if you've got to clip something, clip haunt.
Yeah I guess I could have expanded my statement. Yes its ok to clip it. But you should not cast on CD, thats silly. You do have a window to refresh after that you should use to try and ensure it keeps your Corr up...meaning casting before Corr is done ticking. All good points.

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Old 12/17/08, 12:39 PM   #147
rutiene
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Deathwing
I think part of it has to do with the shorter DPS time of your fights, since things that are only once a fight (Infernal, Bloodlust, etc) have a higher DPS value in shorter fights. I'd also like to offer up my WWS stats. (Wow Web Stats)

The Infernal seems to be quite a DPS boost. Mine was on CD at the fight, quite a disappointment to me. We were also missing alot of possible raid buffs.

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Old 12/17/08, 1:03 PM   #148
 Nicarras
Keyboard Cowboy
 
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Undead Priest
 
Illidan
It is fight length.

Thats why you should just compare things like dot uptimes, as those speak more towards someones performance and less about their gear. Like if you compare amount of SBs or something...haste/bloodlust/haste pots, affect that dramatically.

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Old 12/17/08, 1:18 PM   #149
Darkstarrz
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warlock
 
Bonechewer
Right now I have put three points in cataclsym. I was thinking of dropping one point out of it and placing it in molten core. Since I run with an imp due to already having another affliction lock who constantly runs with a felpuppy, I feel this is the proper move to make for optimal dps. Does the extra % mana come out to more dps if your hit capped over one point in molten core? Any suggestions would be great.

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Old 12/17/08, 3:08 PM   #150
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by rutiene View Post
The one person who said it wasn't bugged has retracted their statement.
What exactly is the buggy behaviour?

If it looks like a fix won't be incoming any time soon, then I prefer to add the same "bug" to the simulator.


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