Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread - Page 103

alicefashiongirl · 02/26/10, 1:56 PM

The answer to this question depends on fight length really. If by doing SB->Haunt->Cor are you going to gain an extra dot tick? If yes then you want to do it that way if not, then you want to do SB->haunt->SB.

+% damage (applied to a target which is different from yourself) gets rolled into dots when it is applied (or falls off). +% crit gets applied on initial cast only. Hence the need for SB before Cor/UA. Also, since Imp SB takes travel time + a little bit to be active on the target and you want to give the ele shaman/ret pally additional time to get +3% crit debuff and haunt increases dot damage by a lot, you cast it next. At this point the question is do you want to lose

5% damage off the top of 1 tick of each dot before the 3rd stack of SE goes up, or do you want to potentially lose the entirety of 1 tick of each dot when the mob dies because you didn't apply them for an additional 2 seconds?

Random chance on waiting 2 seconds would indicate that you would lose essentially 66% of those last ticks. Since 66% is greater than 5% one would gather based on not knowing when a mob is going to die, you would be better off only 2 stacking SE before applying dots. Now its more complicated than that because you tend to stop casting dots when a mobs time to die gets low. Which would need to be factored in.

I have done some minor testing, and even in the updated spreadsheets, DPS is increased by maintaining the normal rotation, usually, the cooldown on haunt is over by the time I've applied my first corruption, and when refreshed, will gain the additional 5% damage from SE for the rest of the fight - better to have it ticking before adding the 3rd stack whether via SB or haunt than to let your buffs determine its cast.

melgrekk · 02/28/10, 2:20 PM

Thanks for the idea of using that seed to reapply the corruption with the 4p bonus and nmic. In the end, I should wait to activate the nmic until I get the 4p bonus then?
Also Was reading through the gemming part of the article. Up until Now I had been gemming all the yellow slots with the plus 20 haste. is the 12SP 10 Haste really that much better? I've almost reached the 1 sec cast of UA and Haunt with my current level of haste and I am slightly confused on whether or not I should sacrifice some for some SP.

madindehead · 03/03/10, 3:30 AM

Excellent list of best in slot T10 gear there Namnalia. Forgot how good this thread was (just come back to WoW after a 9 month break).

I was going to ask, would it maybe be possible to great a list of best in slot gear for normal 10 and 25 man mode ICC. I think there must be a lot of warlocks who's guilds aren't quite at heroic modes (as annoying as that is), and having a BiS list for non-heroic mode would be nice.

However, if it's too much work, or you don't have the time, don't worry too much. But it would be nice for those of us who haven't quite got that far.

Noggog · 03/03/10, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by melgrekk

Also Was reading through the gemming part of the article. Up until Now I had been gemming all the yellow slots with the plus 20 haste. is the 12SP 10 Haste really that much better? I've almost reached the 1 sec cast of UA and Haunt with my current level of haste and I am slightly confused on whether or not I should sacrifice some for some SP.

Yes, a Reckless Ametrine is better. Going off the charts on page one of this post:

Originally Posted by Namnalia

For a Naxxramas starter gear / Ulduar Starter Gear / Colliseum Starter Gear / Icecrown Starter Gear, the stat-to-dps ratios of these are:

Stat	early T7	early T8 / high end T7	early T9 / high end T8	early T10 / high end T9
hit rating	1.097	1.737	1.977	2.40
spell power	1.295	1.649	1.692	1.77
haste rating	0.626	1.396	1.663	1.95
crit rating	0.522	0.868	0.949	1.16
spirit	0.661	0.841	0.863	0.90
int	0.158	0.315	0.342	0.42

20 haste = (20)*(1.95) = 39 points
12 SP, 10 haste = (12)*(1.77) + (10)*(1.95) = 21.24 + 19.5 = 40.74

1.74 "points" is not oodles better, but if you have an empty yellow socket, you should put the reckless in. They're cheaper anyway. Hehe
Also, I prefer the reckless because it scales better with Destro/Demo if you ever offspec for a certain fight.

Vicieus · 03/04/10, 3:42 AM

Incoming warlock nerf:
"Life Tap - Now converts [ 150% of Spirit + 1490 ] health into [1490 + Spell Power * 0.5 ] mana. (Old - [300% of Spirit + 1490] health into [1490 + Spirit * 3 Mana]"

The fact that theres hardly any spirit gear in ICC (mostly the 4 set), and now this. I assume this hurts demonology A LOT more than either afflic or destro, seeing as how, demonology locks go out of their way to get spirit gear.

Also according to that chart haste is only .18 points better than SP in general, but is it practial using sp/haste gems when there are a ton of movement fights in ICC?

For instance lets take into account noggogs example:
20 haste = (20)*(1.95) = 39 points
12 SP, 10 haste = (12)*(1.77) + (10)*(1.95) = 21.24 + 19.5 = 40.74

23 sp = (23)*(1.77)=40.71

is that .03 gonna shine when you aren't in a patchwerk-esque style fight?

madindehead · 03/04/10, 4:02 AM

Originally Posted by Vicieus

Incoming warlock nerf:
"Life Tap - Now converts [ 150% of Spirit + 1490 ] health into [1490 + Spell Power * 0.5 ] mana. (Old - [300% of Spirit + 1490] health into [1490 + Spirit * 3 Mana]"

The fact that theres hardly any spirit gear in ICC (mostly the 4 set), and now this. I assume this hurts demonology A LOT more than either afflic or destro, seeing as how, demonology locks go out of their way to get spirit gear.

Is that actually a nerf though?

Look at this:

On a character with 442 spirit and 2913 spell power (unbuffed).

Old version of Life Tap would convert 2816 health into 2816 mana.

New version of Life Tap will convert 2153 health into 2946.5 mana.

Assuming my maths is correct, you are now converting less health, into more mana than the old version of Life Tap. So really, it's a buff. Only just, but still a buff.

Then imagine what that would be with Fel Armor, and a flask on top of that. The amount of health that is taken will increase slower than the amount of mana that the warlock receives.

I'm not sure what the average warlock has in the way of spirit and spell power once buffed, but I can imagine those figures getting better as your gear level increases.

(Those figures are taken from a lock in my guild with 4pc T10, and mainly ICC 10 and 25 man loot to give a rough picture).

Vicieus · 03/04/10, 5:07 AM

Originally Posted by madindehead

Is that actually a nerf though?

Look at this:

On a character with 442 spirit and 2913 spell power (unbuffed).

Old version of Life Tap would convert 2816 health into 2816 mana.

New version of Life Tap will convert 2153 health into 2946.5 mana.

Assuming my maths is correct, you are now converting less health, into more mana than the old version of Life Tap. So really, it's a buff. Only just, but still a buff.

Then imagine what that would be with Fel Armor, and a flask on top of that. The amount of health that is taken will increase slower than the amount of mana that the warlock receives.

I'm not sure what the average warlock has in the way of spirit and spell power once buffed, but I can imagine those figures getting better as your gear level increases.

(Those figures are taken from a lock in my guild with 4pc T10, and mainly ICC 10 and 25 man loot to give a rough picture).

Actually you're right for a second there I thought they meant the spirit conversion from glyph of life tap to sp conversion.

Arthercy · 03/05/10, 9:30 AM

In the stat-to-dps ratios table from the OP, crit rating is given a value of 1.16. However, on GuildOx (the site linked for Loot Rank lists) crit is valued at 0.836 by default. Normally I just chalk up small differences in these kinds of values to different settings in the sims used to produce them, but this is a pretty big difference (one values spirit higher than crit, & vice versa). I've just been changing the value from 0.836 to 1.16 when I do my Loot Ranking as that seems the more reasonable value based on my own sims, but I was wondering if anyone could confirm which is the most accurate or perhaps enlighten me if there is some other reason for the discrepancy.

Noggog · 03/05/10, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Vicieus

Also according to that chart haste is only .18 points better than SP in general, but is it practial using sp/haste gems when there are a ton of movement fights in ICC?

For instance lets take into account noggogs example:
20 haste = (20)*(1.95) = 39 points
12 SP, 10 haste = (12)*(1.77) + (10)*(1.95) = 21.24 + 19.5 = 40.74

23 sp = (23)*(1.77)=40.71

is that .03 gonna shine when you aren't in a patchwerk-esque style fight?

Well, we -were- talking about yellow sockets for when you're going for the set bonus.
So putting that 23 sp gem in will be a lot worse than .03 points, because you'll be sacrificing the set bonus too.

Yes, red gems are the best for red sockets when the item has a crappy set bonus, no argument there.

PetWolverine · 03/06/10, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Vicieus

Incoming warlock nerf:
"Life Tap - Now converts [ 150% of Spirit + 1490 ] health into [1490 + Spell Power * 0.5 ] mana. (Old - [300% of Spirit + 1490] health into [1490 + Spirit * 3 Mana]"

Quite apart from whether it's a nerf or a buff, this change is thoroughly bizarre. Think about it: Spirit now increases the cost of life-tapping, without (directly) increasing the benefit.

Spirit will indirectly increase the mana we get back by increasing our spellpower, but as Affliction, 50% of spirit becomes spellpower, and 50% of that becomes mana. So a point of spirit increases the health cost of Life Tap by 1.5 while increasing the mana gained by only 0.25.

As if healers didn't already hate us for rolling on spirit gear. And we still will, too, because despite this change, spirit is still a decent stat, scaling comparably to crit.

Vicieus · 03/06/10, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by Noggog

Well, we -were- talking about yellow sockets for when you're going for the set bonus.
So putting that 23 sp gem in will be a lot worse than .03 points, because you'll be sacrificing the set bonus too.

Yes, red gems are the best for red sockets when the item has a crappy set bonus, no argument there.

Yeah for yellow sockets reckless. Although as we get more haste gear and trinkets (DFO, Rigormortis or heroic frost needle...etc) and get haste capped; does the DR bring the value of haste down under the value of sp?

Noggog · 03/10/10, 1:05 AM

Originally Posted by Vicieus

Yeah for yellow sockets reckless. Although as we get more haste gear and trinkets (DFO, Rigormortis or heroic frost needle...etc) and get haste capped; does the DR bring the value of haste down under the value of sp?

You're never really gonna be "haste capped" to the point where you drop the worth of haste below SP. The only time you'll be haste capped in reality is during a Bloodlust, going over 50% haste, and that will STILL only affect your instant cast spells, and only while BL is up. So going over hastecap is really only going to affect you in a smaaaall window and only really lose you a fraction of a GCD. That being the case, haste is still just as useful as it has always been... increasing your SB casts and Corr ticks. Git it.

crazy dodo · 03/10/10, 11:07 AM

First I want to say, thank you Namnalia for the excellent guide on the first page. A lot has changed since the last time I touched my warlock which was over 2 years ago and this saved me a lot of time in trying to figure things out.

I do have one question though and I appologize in advance if this has already been discussed (I assume the OP would be updated with any significant changes)

The opening sequence found most often is Shadow Bolt->Haunt->Corruption->Unstable Affliction->Curse of Agony.

Based on what I've seen ingame Haunt is pretty slow getting to it's target, meaning if you're GCD obsessed and spam corruption as soon as your GCD after Haunt is up you can actualy apply Corruption on the target before it's debuffed by Haunt which on average takes a second or so to get to it's target

In this case wouldn't it be better to start a fight with:

Shadow Bolt > Haunt > Unstable Affliction > Corruption > Curse of Agony

• Zakalwe · 03/10/10, 11:36 AM

Haunt is a damage debuff on the target, and as such doesn't roll with corruption. Since corruption doesn't tick until a couple of seconds after you apply it, even the first tick should be affected.

EDIT: I actually use the rotation you suggest, but for a different reason - sometimes shadow bolt can be so slow to reach the target that even the full haunt cast time isn't enough to ensure the ISB debuff is up before you apply corruption. And that debuff *does* roll with corruption.

angaroth · 03/10/10, 12:56 PM

How many of you cast Haunt as soon as the CD is up? In general I feel that as long as it lands before my next UA is cast I can leave it alone and focus on SB spam.